Why do we do what we do?

[Hawkyns]

I was asked, over in the Rapier vs.Cutlass thread, why I only carry real weapons. I think that answer deserves a thread of it's own. It's something that's been kicked around before, but not recently, and we have a lot of new crew members.

Simply stated, my goal is to be able to live as much as possible in a pre-1763 lifestyle. I need to have the skills, the mindset, and the equipment to be able to live as a 16th, 17th, or 18th century person. Carrying fake weapons, ones that will not do their assigned tasks, just doesn't cut it for me. If I carry a pistol, it has to be able to shoot, and I carry all the accoutrements that go with it- powder, ball, etc. If I carry a sword, I have to be able to use it, and know that it will really cut my target. I practice with the weapons, both sword and firearm, so that I know what I'm doing.

But it goes beyond the weapons. I go into the woods for weekends carrying nothing that is not of the period- 18th century backpacking, if you will. With a blanket, small canvas tarp, and minimal equipment, I can live out there- cooking over a fire, living on jerky, parched corn, and wild rice. I can move into museum settings and live in the houses, cooking on the fire, dealing with the animals, running the militia company, becoming that earlier person. I am learning more and more what is like to work on shipboard and what that entails.

It's not all pyracy. Much of pyracy was just living an 18th century life. As a ship's gunner, or a boucannier, or a merchant, or soldier, I am willing and able to give up the comfort and convenience of the 21st century. No electricity and everything it entails-computers, tv, cd's, phones, etc. Just me and maybe a small group, sitting round the fire, in the candlelight, singing, talking, and smoking my pipe. Sleeping on the ground, or in a pile of straw, or on a tavern bench, or curled up on the anchor hawser. If I don't expereince at least some of the hardships of the time, I will never get even close to experiencing what our ancestors knew. And that is my goal- to slip the bonds of the 21st century and live, at least for a time, in a century where I make my own destiny, where my survival depends on the skills I have, and where no-one is telling me what to do or where I have to be.

Hawkyns

[Toe Cutter]

Hum, I have been into the survivalist thing for several years, and could easily go for a long time in the woods with out televisions, computers, video games, cars and such. Survival 17th century style though.... now thats an interesting concept. I think it would be fun just to gear up in true "old school" gear and hit the woods for the weekend.

When you do this do you run into modern campers and hikers? and how do they react to you?

I think 75% of Americans would not be able to make it living that way.

If they were suddenly tossed into the year 1763 they would go nuts and/or starve to death.

[Hawkyns]

When we go out on a scout, modern folks are regarded as 'hostiles'. We fade into the woods and hopefully are never seen. We also prefer to do this in wilderness areas, or on private land where we are never seen.

Makes it easier to hunt, when neccesary, too.

Hawkyns

[Bloody_Mary_Bonney]

I host ye in the highest respect sir you are truly what it means to become one with history so to speack. I for one can not do that, and when i read your posts i get a wee bit jealous of ye. Still it makes me proud to be on the same board as ye.

[Rumba Rue]

Good for you Hawkins! I do appreciate people who can truly get into true character. I unfortunately can't for very long - ah the truth of reality, I like my toilet paper. LOL!

A survivalist I'm not, but I give big kudos to those that can.

The important thing to remember though, is to be able to distinguish between when it's time to leave the facade behind and join the real world.

I'll let you know as soon as I figure out what the real world is!

Rumba Rue

**Yes I am an owl, I give a hoot!**

[Captain_MacNamara]

When I grow up, Hawkins is who I want to be... I am slowly working toward that end... I know the SCA isn't the same on most levels, but that's the realm I play in for the time being.

I stumbled across the SCA 5 years ago now, and started actively playing a year later. When I first "came in", I didn't know a rapier from a broadsword, and hadn't ever SEEN a hand-forged, functional blade... I wore a "costume" to my first event, and was met with some disdain, because pirates are generally frowned upon in the SCA. (some idiots in the SCA are still conviced that firearms and pirates didn't exist until 1650 or so) So I changed my personna to something a bit more... acceptable. I learned how to do some leatherworking, woodworking, metalworking, I learned a bit of calligraphy and illumination (scribal arts), learned a bit about brewing, etc. I eventually got rid of my mass-production made-in-pakistan/taiwan/china stainless steeel blades. Eventually I got better garb, trading my "costume" for "clothes". I'm not to that 100% accurate look yet, but I'm doing alot better than most people in my area.

I carry real weapons because well... it's a weapon. If it's not real, what's the point? A new guy at our last meeting was showing off his "hand made dragon sword that he had forged for him"... it appalled me how many people bought his story. Anyone with half a brain who are supposed to know about blades could tell it was a pakistan fantasy sword.

The only weapon I carry that's not real, and that's only once in a while, is a repro flintlock pistol... and that's only till I get a real one to replace it, then it goes in the trash.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

I wonder how many WOMEN are in it for the "experience of our ancestors" and how many are in it for meeting people and having fun?

It wouldn't surprise me if none are into the authenticity of it, as this seems to be a luxury reserved for men who didn't have to worry about children and such.

[Capt. Flint]

I've read what some of you have said and I would like to respond. I can appreciate what Hawkyns has said as I and my fair Katey ahve done the same before. Be a part of history so to speak. We have spent time in the camp with no electric, no running water etc. It's actually a nice, peaceful way to spend some time together. A few of you mentioned "survivalist". I cannot say as we ever saw it that way. It wasn't a matter of that with us. It was just a fun way to spend a weekend or so. I cannot say as we ever saw modern folk as being hostiles, but, thats just us. We stopped doing this for a long time now as we have small children. Regardless of whatever folks think, we simply will not put our little ones through anything without some modern convienences around for them and us. Just a thought .......... The Capt.

[Hawkyns]

I wonder how many WOMEN are in it for the "experience of our ancestors" and how many are in it for meeting people and having fun?

It wouldn't surprise me if none are into the authenticity of it, as this seems to be a luxury reserved for men who didn't have to worry about children and such.

Lots. The French and Indian War period (just post Golden Age) is filled with women who keep the traditions and skills of the women alive. I go to musters and battles all the time that are filled with whole families who do this. They maintain the same authenticity standards as the men and have a good time doing it. There are several bulletin boards that are for 18th century women only.

Check out a book called 'Tidings From the 18th Century' by Beth Gilgun.

Children are brought into the hobby from birth, and are taught the skills as soon as they are capable. They are held to a very similar standard and do it very well. They are taught to shoot at an easrly age and are decent hunters by age 12 or 14, even the girls. At musters, the younger kids run in a pack with their wooden swords and muskets, so the women are not constantly dealing with them and have the time and opportunity to pursue their own interests.

It depends where you play. If you play only RenFaires and festivals, you are probably correct. The SCA has a mix of party people and authenticists. Full blown re-enactment has mostly authenticists and is heavily populated by women. I play with all three so I see all the varients.

Hawkyns

[blackjohn]

I thought it was too pick up chicks...

or for the booze...

I appreciate your take on "why we do this," Hawkins, and I respect those skills, but that's not why I do this. In fact, I'm not really sure why I do this. And sometimes I even question the validity of it. Shouldn't I be off doing something for the betterment of mankind, helping people, et cetera? But for now, this is where I (still) am. (I've been a re-enactor of one thing or another since the late 1970s.)

I suppose it is part of my quest... there's a part of me that is searching for experiences, things that can help me understand those mysterious universal truths underlying the foundation of my reality. I've had plenty of interesting times re-enacting, I've seen things I wouldn't have otherwise seen, and felt emotions I wouldn't have otherwise felt, and believe I've gained a modicum of wisdom along the way.

So, I have my journey, and you yours. And if I'm lucky, maybe someday our paths will cross.

But for now, I'm off. The air-conditioner in the camper has been repaired, and it looks like it is going to be a lovely weekend to spend in the great indoors.

Blackjohn

[Nomadicalpirate]

i've not the time for such a detailed response, but to answer your question.

I do the pirate thing because it's fun, and it goes nicely with my love of sailing.

(I am a fan of the outdoors and travelling as well, but that's not why I'm into this)

[Silver Steele]

Why do I do what I do. Humm.... this could take up an entire book for myself!

I got into the piracy thang when I learned that my maternal Grandfather's true last name was Roberts, and his father was Welsh. Well, to make a long story short, nope, I'm not related to Bartholomew Roberts that I have found. (Just too many missing records.)

But, I'm more of the "historian" type (no I dont consider myself a pirate historian, but more of a researcher and only a wanna be at that, how about pirate geek?). I try to learn how people lived hundreds of years ago. To learn what people had to do to just survive and exist never ceases to amaze me. To learn how people had to live just to survive never ceases to amaze me. Thru wars, plagues, fires, starvation for starters, to this day, I still don't know how people managed to live.

"Roughing" it, I have experienced as my father came from a single log cabin on top of a mountain in West Virginia in the early 1920's and even to this day, my father prefers to hunt, grow and can his own food in his age of 80. He wont cook on anything unless it is cast-iron. He even makes his own bread, and his own soap. He has an armory that would make any pirate proud, and has an extensive knowledge of black powder, weapons, and knives (including casting his own slugs and pressing his own bullets). He even made his own moonshine. So I grew up in an environment that was a few years behind everyone else's and not quite like everyone else's. He had an old town canoe that was often found on the nearby lake. And camping of course was a requisite every so often. My mother knitted hats, sweaters, gloves and scarves. And she also made all my fathers work shirts. (He was an Industrial Engineer/Chemical Engineer) By the time I was 9 or 10 I could fire a shotgun (although I ended up on my butt evertime), skin a rabbit, make a fire, and basically cook it. I grew up where although my parents had electricity, they preferred to not use it. (Meaning no AC in summer, and not much heat in winter in the NW corner of Ohio, and doing homework at times by the light of a oil lamp.) And we always lived at least 20 miles from the nearest town. But that doesn't even touch on the way that people had to live hundreds of years ago.

But in all honesty, I love my TP, I love my cable modem, and I love my central air.

[hurricane]

Why we do this?

To pick up chicks, drink fine and not so fine rum, swagger around town, walk into bars with weapons, pin the women, kiss the girls and pillage and plunder our guts out.

Don't get me wrong here. It's fine for those who want to play like they’re in another century. Just don't try to convince us all that you're doing living history here. Even the best big budget controlled experiments in period existence has run afoul of the "real world." Watch the PBS settlement series? Attendance in church was compulsory back then, but there were those in the PBS experiment who refused because they're not religious - something that couldn't and wouldn't have happened in the time they were portraying. It was simply not an option or a mindset in those days.

You simply cannot put aside the 21st century world as if it doesn't exist as it's part of your understanding of the world. Those back then didn't have the luxury of knowing what was over the horizon, or that we figured out at the turn of the century that soap was a pretty good invention, or that the weapons we used today aren't milled by the same inexact standards that could cause them to blow up in your face back then... What was high tech back then has been eclipsed by our mere knowledge that other things exist. One can't bulk erase one's memory or the knowledge he or she gains through a lifetime of walking the earth in whatever time they were born in. Heck, the stuff we all learned learned in first and second grade is more than most people in the 18th century learned during their lifespan. We are tainted from birth by what we see, hear and learn. And that inevitably taints our ability to recapture history in any manner that is vaguely authentic.

It's not about the equipment - it's about the world as people knew it then... driving to a campout in the woods in an SUV can hardly create an environment of true thought at that period of time. They didn't know that cars existed, or the internal combustion engine, or a freeway. They walked for days and weeks, not even knowing where they were or where they were going to end up.

I think of people in the future a century or two from now trying to capture a period in our history. If they picked the 60s, wouldn't they stand out even if they picked items from the early 60s vs. the late 60s. Think of the difference even between a 1962 Galaxie and a 1965 Galaxie. Or knowing the songs of Perry Como vs. the music of Jimi Hendrix. We'd like to think time stands still in innovation, but a person in that moment in history would be able to see even the most subtle nuances of change... in fashion, in technology, in the understanding of the world, in geopgraphy...

Ever see the movie Somewhere in Time? A smaltzy movie, but it had a pointant scene - the lead character bought antique clothes trying to fit into the turn of the century, only to find that his clothes were a decade out of fashion (forgive the exactness of the recollection, but the point is the same). He stuck out in that period because he missed by only so much, a mere 10 years in styles.

And what's with the, "We treat 21st century folks as hostiles?" That's an absurdity - no one back then would assume that a white man or woman walking through the woods was a hostile... They'd be tickled to even see another human, let along one of their own ilk. And if they did think they were hostile, wouldn't they then use the very weapons you carry to dispatch them? If you're authentic to period, why not run them through or shoot them? Oh, because charges of murder in the 21st century conflicts with period behaviors. Such is the conundrum.

I return now from the soapbox to the wine, women and song I've come to love in the real pubs, inns, towns and cities I pass through on my travels as a pirate. Long live progress...

[HarborMaster]

Why we do what we do? For me thats an odd question.., because I have to analyze what it is I am doing.., then there is the explaining of why it is I am going to do what it is I will be doing. And then there is the fact that its all a build up so i can do it later...., WOW !!!

Well then., I do the pirate thing for me.., The renn faires and fantasy faire are just window dressing to get me by for now and fill my head with ideas.,What I am really after is retiring VERY VERY young., This is where the pirate comes in.I collect to my Piratical wardrobe alot., tho its not worn much., the weapons and chests and cannons as well.., Modern times is a really I hate..., sound familiar?., let me open your mind..,

Taxes every quarter then yearlies? Work work work., Keep up with the jones's ., child support.,divorce.,drugs.,bums and lowlifes.,and other social problems on top of my relentlessy no time for life company..., uhhh 24 hour and 7 day a week on call service for 23 years?., no life., no planned day off?.., shall I go on?

Makes me want to escape from an enviroment like this and go bury my head in the sand..,so....., I went and got me some sand to start with.

I do the pirate because I want to escape., I work so I can escape., I bought a beach so I can escape., I wear plumbers clothing every every day., I am tired of it. In 3 1/2 more years I will wear my pirate garb every day..., for me its not a Faire or a game..., Its a 350 year old spanish fort looking Home hotel and marina., with Parrots anchors cannons a ship and pirates., teaching Dive courses in S.E.Asia., amongst coconut trees and 7107 islands for retirement and fun...., no-more working for the man day in an day out.

Dress like a pirate., take Germans., Japanese., Koreans., Americans., British and any others on 4 day Dive Safaris., leaving out of our own port., There..., thats why I do what I do. Its a dream and ALL about Saving Every nickel.., but I am ahead of schedule..., I am committed., and I cant wait. Having been where I am going many times..., I would start over if need be., I cant wait., it eats on me daily.

Imagine if you will getting up and walking out of your house., across the garrison by your gun(cannon) placements., waving to the men taking provisions to the ship as you make your way to the bar over hanging the marina., and having breakfast there telling your dive crew and guest the dive plan.

Then returning on a still water night on the ship lit by lantern easing into your marina.., and the lights are on in the bar with kareoke flashing lights and dancing going on at 85 degrees and starry....., yea its worth it.

Crossing fingers

HarborMaster

[Hawkyns]

Why we do this?

To pick up chicks, drink fine and not so fine rum, swagger around town, walk into bars with weapons, pin the women, kiss the girls and pillage and plunder our guts out.

Don't get me wrong here. It's fine for those who want to play like they’re in another century. Just don't try to convince us all that you're doing living history here.

OK, lots of answers here.

First, this works for me and those like me. Doesn't work for everyone and I wouldn't expect it to.

Colonial House was a joke. A number of us re-enactors who do living history tried to sign up for it. We were all rejected because we knew too much. We would have had fun playing the period and would not have created the dissent and drama the producers wanted.

Yes, I know the 21st c exists. It's a mindset issue, that we do our best to put it aside. No, it's not perfect, and we can't get 100%. But we work at it and study period journals to try and figure out how THEY thought. Some of our artifacts are created by modern procedures, but linen and leather hand stitched; bone, horn, and wood worked with handtools, and hand forged iron have not significantly changed. Firearms are safer, but though I don't own one myself, I do know people who shoot with handforged barrels.

Going into the woods entails walking miles into the backcountry, not driving to a campsite. A weekend scout will cover from 10-30 miles, further if we are out longer. Doing it in period footwear, straight lasted or mocassins gives a whole new meaning to foot pain, until you get used to it. We carry our minimum kit and deal with nature as it comes. We get wet, cold, dusty, sunburned, blistered, and cut. Yes, we know that civilisation (?) is waiting when we get home. That doesn't help when you are 20 miles from the trailhead and an early season snowstorm just blew in unexpectedly. Or your camp was raided by animals and your food sack is gone.

Research is research. You talk about Perry Como vs Jimi Hendrix. I talk about Philadelphia vs Niagara Frontier vs London vs Carlisle. All different, all with their own style. That's where a huge library, lots of research friends, and sharing of sources comes in.

Hostiles- OK, if I were in the New England woods in 1720, chances are the only humans I'm going to see are Natives. Without knowing which nation they belong to, I'm more likely to get killed than anything else. If I'm out on the Norfolk fens as a pirate or smuggler, I'm likely to run into the Excise men or someone who will report me to them. Either way, I don't want to be seen. Since so many of todays people are likely to freak out when seeing a bunch of shaggy guys in stained leather and linen, carrying all manner of weapons, come down the trail, we don't want to be seen there either. So we treat them as hostiles and fade into the woods so as not to be seen.

It's all mindset. No, we can never be 100%. But the journey towards it is part of the joy. And getting as close as I can is my sense of accomplishment and community with those who have gone before. It may not be yours, but it doesn't have to be.

Hawkyns

[hurricane]

Very well put Hawkyns... I appreciate the repartee and the response. Very enlightening and enjoyable. Always learn so much from ya, even though we approach things from a different direction.!!!

I still like the rum and women though. :)

Huzzah!

-- The Captain

[Captain_MacNamara]

I like shooting at heralds with my signal cannons... if you've ever been to an SCA event, you know what I'm talking about...

though this time, it was an accident

Bet he thinks twice before cutting through my camp again though! :)

[Hawkyns]

I like shooting at heralds with my signal cannons... if you've ever been to an SCA event, you know what I'm talking about...

though this time, it was an accident

Bet he thinks twice before cutting through my camp again though! :)

Ummmmm. I really don't want to ask this..... Am I going to hear about this 'officially'?? Sometimes there are questions you just KNOW aren't going to have anything like a good answer.

OK....what happened?

Hawkyns

[Captain_MacNamara]

posted the answer in the SCA Pirate thread... No, you shouldn't hear about it "officially"...

But the guy who blundered through our camp un-announced is also a hearld...

One of the people who came to ask me if it had really happened asked why I missed

[Patrick Hand]

Been thinking about this one.....

I've done a lot of different periods of living history...... and at different levels of authintisity.....

The group that I'm with "Tales of the Seven Seas" is very easy going. So my "kit" is close to period, but not 100%. I go for more of a Hollywood pirate, my gear and accesories have the right "look", but I'm not claiming to be authentic. I do this for fun (yah... authentic re enactment is fun also... different kinda fun)

[Cap'n Alex]

Hawkyns, I salute you.

I had honestly never thought of piracy in this way before. I like dressing up as a pirate because I like pirates, and piratical things. I have loved pirates since i was li'l, and now (I'm 17) i still love pirates, so the idea is to get some friends together, dress up as pirates (I have a 'costume', not 'clothes', although I would like to progress), drink grog, and generally pretend to be pirates for a while. I know people do historical re enactments, and one day I might get into this, if my enthusiasm for pirates continues, but I had never thought of literally living in the period.

I would love to do this. I really like the idea of living off the land, and enjoy picking berries etc when camping out, and I would love to hunt. That is more than piracy, its the period, and I would love to be able to do that one day. I suppose you could say you've inspired me.

Until then though, it's historically inaccurate costumes and cheap rum. It's still enjoyable, but it seems a little 'hollow' now.

Cap'n Alex, with a new take on pirates.

[Whibbles]

I have two short points to make about what's been written...

- I do this mainly from an aesthetic perspective. I enjoy the manners, the clothes, and the violence in an abstracted, perhaps detached sort of way, as sensual impulse, and not much else. If you want to summarize that as 'wine, (wo)men, and brawling', I imagine it's not that far from the truth, though not especially spot on..

-As I come from a very old family, I live among history all day anyway-furniture, etc- and am used to seeing history and people from the past (as in family legends etc), as a part of life today. Therefore the limits between history and presenty fade, and have, for me, just about disappeared. Therefore it is not an escape, or an experience, for me to assume a guise of history, but normal.

I wonder if anyone feels the same about blurring of limits between history and present time like this.