Unbeliveable

[Commodore Swab]

Today I went to our local pirate fest and decided not to fire any guns as I felt the safety stand point was questionable and would rather not be a part of that. I was able to view the firing of a cannon that to say the least was unsafe. I tried my best to find a "rule" that was not broken and try as I might I have been unable whether it was using a lighter to light it, no swabbing, walking in front of a loaded gun, bringing spectators around the gun, firing small arms over the gun while loading powder, the list is endless including DRINKING while loading and shooting. I wish I had had a video to capture a perfect example of what not to do, and to think this was at a public event.

There thats off my chest now.

[Cascabel]

Today I went to our local pirate fest and decided not to fire any guns as I felt the safety stand point was questionable and would rather not be a part of that. I was able to view the firing of a cannon that to say the least was unsafe. I tried my best to find a "rule" that was not broken and try as I might I have been unable whether it was using a lighter to light it, no swabbing, walking in front of a loaded gun, bringing spectators around the gun, firing small arms over the gun while loading powder, the list is endless including DRINKING while loading and shooting. I wish I had had a video to capture a perfect example of what not to do, and to think this was at a public event.

There thats off my chest now.

The problem being that if there had been an accident, it could have gotten firing banned from other events, even though it had nothing to do with any of us. Such things make event promoters and sponsors very paranoid about lawsuits.....

>>>> Cascabel

[Dutchman]

scarry stuff isn't it. makes one happy to work with folks that all sing off one safety sheet- or - work often enough with others to know what to expect from them and be able to work along with their knowledge. standing back every now and then is a good thing to see how other folks are working and see what the big picture is. the problem with being on the line all the time is you only see who is screwing up if they are right next to you.

[D B Couper]

Where was this held? I want to be sure not to attend the next time any of these blokes get together.

[Commodore Swab]

Hard to believe but it was in Key Largo, the Viceroy's and my home. Neither of us were involved, He left and I stayed as a member of the crowd to observe safety. After describing what transpired we both wanted a video of what happened to show others as to what not to do.

Neither of us were asked to work the event

[oderlesseye]

-E- mail the event coordinator for that event with your list the concerns so

that they may be addressed next time and NO ONE will get hurt NEXT TIME .. >

And we the more "Practiced" and "Safe" wont be cheated outta our fun due to their negligence,

Edited October 24, 2011 by oderlesseye

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

You might also contact Fort DeChartres or some other location that offers cannon school, get their guidlelines/information and forward that along. It always helps if you offer solutions along with grievances.

Bo

[Fox]

The problem being that if there had been an accident, it could have gotten firing banned from other events, even though it had nothing to do with any of us. Such things make event promoters and sponsors very paranoid about lawsuits.....

>>>> Cascabel

A good point, but to my mind THE problem is that if there had been an accident it could have resulted in serious injury or death to a bystander.

[Graydog]

Today I went to our local pirate fest and decided not to fire any guns as I felt the safety stand point was questionable

Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. I have been reenacting since the early 1970’s and the most over the top dangerous event I have ever seen was at a Pirate reenactment event battle in 2007. This event no longer takes place. I don’t want this to be anything other than a safety discussion, so I will only be listing the items that got me concerned. I will not be sharing what event, where, or who were involved.

Hang on to your horses:

No true crowd control just an unsupervised rope hanging maybe 18 inches off the ground.

Anybody that cared to could walk on to the “battlefield”, heck even in the middle of the battle. While the majority of the people belonged to some priate group or another, these were unaffiliated groups with zero discussion of safety between them. This was grossly exascerbated by the fact indivudals (as in customers at the event) could just walk on and be a part of the battle (oh, they did have to be in costume). There were zero controls on the individual participant. There were maybe 100-200 people running around shooting and sword play haphazardly with a general concept of two sides. They did not even identify which side would “win” the battle.

No safety briefing, no safety rules, and nobody that you could even take a safety complaint to. The event organizer was not present, he didn’t see a need to attend his own battle event.

Since there never was any from of checking any participant for anything, only the Lord knows who had been drinking and to what extent.

An informal musket line was formed and a pistol firing line formed. The pistols formed behind the muskets at a distance of about 15 feet with people expected to shoot between the musket men in front of them.

Muskets used ramrods during the battle and were ramming paper down the barrel to ensure a nice loud report. Oh, and there were no safety zones between firers and their targets, that was an individual responsibility.

There was a trapdoor rifle cut off to pistol size firing blanks so powerful it blew the pistol out of the firer’s hand.

In most cases this battle was comprised of various pirate groups. In one of the groups the people firing weapons weren’t allowed to load because they weren’t “certified” by their group to load their own pistols, but it was ok for them to fire their pistol unsupervised that they didn’t know how to load, nor handle a misfire in, plus they were told to shoot between people in front of them 15 feet away.

A large caliber cannon being fired with no identified safety zone and the gun crew just fired when the area appeared clear.

Some people literally sticking their gun barrels in their mouth after firing them. Smoke coming out of the vent looks cool! (If you really need to wrap you lips around your gun barrel and blow, try not doing that in front of the children in the audience, who will treat a gun just like you do.)

All weapons universally overloaded directly from flasks. To include Falconets that were stuffed with powder from a flask till they “sounded” right.

A person got a misfire on their percussion pistol yelled “Hot gun” put the pistol on the ground and then ran off to play with their sword leaving the misfired pistol abandoned on the ground, loaded and capped, available to anybody to pick it up and nobody watching it. (Remember no crowd control)

When I made the mistake to open my mouth to ask about safety I was shouted down and told to shut-up because they had been firing weapons for over 10 years and nobody had been hurt.

To this day I am amazed they didn’t hurt somebody. Given time I fully expect they could have killed somebody. It’s the only time I have started a battle by being in the very rear, then backing up, and finally turning around to flee the field in terror for my own safety. I followed up with a letter of complaint to the event organizer. In hindsight, I should have filed a formal complaint with the Fire Marshal that permitted the event.

So, yes there are some BAD events out there. Always remember your safety is YOUR business.

Fair winds,

-Greydog

[Black Hearted Pearl]

It's disappointing to hear about such things. Like Cascabel stated, one negligent accident affects us all.

[Commodore Swab]

Port Royal Bucc were there in Key Largo and had nothing to do the unsafe cannon crew I saw.

[Crudbeard]

Amen to all the above. I also find most telling the comment about how long the people had been firing weapons. While there are a few, a very few, who can claim a vast experience with firing with justification (such as Matt Switlik), the rest of us are still students, beginners, newbys, and novices, and we had better act that way. There will always be something more to learn about safety and I hope to God I never, ever, act like I don't appreciate any concerns brought to my attention. I appreciate the job of safety officer, having that honor to be one of them at the last Fort Taylor event, and understand that some judgement ends up applied. On the one hand, we can make things truely safe by running out on the field and yelling bang, not firing at all. The other end of the spectrum is having little or no control at all, as in the above examples it seems. And judgement calls are influenced by pressures both ways. Things are easier when you are the Captain of your own crew and can set the procedures and enforce them, and can scream and holler to make sure that mistakes are not repeated. But when you deal with larger events with lots of other crews, you don't want to be such a pain in the ass that the show sucks and the other pirates don't want to come back next year and play with you. You certainly don't want to be a pain, but clear indication of danger trumps what you "want" to do. And also, we're pirates after all, symbolizing the historical group that exemplified defiance of the rules. Unlike the F&I, Rev war, and Civ war folks, we don't have much of a military organization and chain of command, and personally I find it rather interesting and providential that we don't seem to have more accidents than we do, probably due in large part to this very forum. At a minimum, we need to follow the AAA or National Cannon Safety rules which give a base, but how much further should we go? As I say, it is not all that clear, at least to me. If I have the fortune to be firing or safety officering at an event with you, please don't hesitate to share your concerns with me, and if you would like to elaborate or differ with these thoughts expressed, why matey, good on ya, as you may keep me from blowing off me own head or someone elses.

[Hawkyns]

Our big issue is one that has been kicked around a dozen times, with no resolution. We have no governing body that can set a basic set of rules and require that anyone participating follow thm or leave. I've heard the "But we're pirates, we don't need no rules' too damn many times. I've been an artillery and musket safety officer for 25 years, in 4 different time periods. The one I dread most is dealing with pirates. I've seen just about every possible mistake under the sun when it comes to pirate events, to the point that I've stood my gun down a number of times, rather than participate. I'm a certified state of PA black powder safety inspector. I'm generally more of a hard ass than even those rules require, because I think they miss some things. Every time something happens with a cannon, it makes national news, like that kid who killed himself a few weeks ago with a desktop model cannon. It has nothing to do with what we do, not the smae group of people, size of gun, not even at an event, but all the news headlines say is 'killed with a cannon' and we're all tarred with that brush. One of these days we'll get past our fear of a standard set of blackpowder rules for the pirate community. Hopefully it won't be too late.

[michaelsbagley]

Again, every time the "governing body" thing comes up, I cringe.

And not for the cited reasons... But for the un-cited one. I am all for standards. I am all against whatever arbitrary method that puts some potential self-important jackass as head of an standards organization that quickly devolves into a petty clique.

I have seen so many small orgs start and explode (with an average of a 2-3 life cycle, maybe up to 5 years before the final death throws). The sad things is, small orgs are almost ALWAYS (in my experience) ruled with an (uneven) iron hand. There is a size point where orgs live long enough to grow big enough to have enough checks and balances to get to the size where th petty nonsense (mostly) goes away. Unfortunately, I can count on one hand the number of orgs that have survived that gorwth to grow into what they should be. I might need to use two hands to count if I count old long established orgs that pre-date me.

So again, I repeat, devise a standard, and I will agree to follow and adhere to it. But ask me to trust someone to "govern" said body.... well a lot of years hard experience have expolicitly shown me the foolishness of that.

Edit and addendum - I am not hinting or insinuationg that anyone here is, or will be a "potential self-important jackass", but in the past, every time I have been biting in the backside by such a person, they had started as someone I thought I could trust.

[Rats]

Hard to believe but it was in Key Largo, the Viceroy's and my home. Neither of us were involved, He left and I stayed as a member of the crowd to observe safety. After describing what transpired we both wanted a video of what happened to show others as to what not to do.

Neither of us were asked to work the event

That was without a doubt the best thing you could have done!

Regardless of the presentation and my envolvement, I have no problem stepping aside just to act as crowd control and safety.

I hate to be rude and group folks together... But as we all have seen, some spectators are litterally like cattle! It's almost like you need to herd them behind the safety lines and then even stand there to make sure the heard doesn't break through the gate! I've seen spectators just wander from the crowd into the engagement area, oblivious to where they are and some times not even caring.

BTW: the two folks I mentiond above had hearing aids told me they couldn't hear me yelling and were trying to find an open path through the crowd.

OK so watch this video and enjoy... er I mean cringe!

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I swear I hear whiskey bottles falling to the ground and dueling banjos in the background!!

Edited July 1, 2012 by Rats