Yet another Cannon Accident

[Graydog]

Here's the link and below the link is a cut and paste job of the article.

Tourist shot by ramrod

Cannon mishap at tourist site injures Ky. man

Ramrod shoots 100 yards, breaks 52-year-old’s leg, bruises wife

updated 1:30 p.m. PT, Fri., Oct . 16, 2009

LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. - When Douglas Struder watches war movies, he doesn't have to wonder what it's like to be shot by a cannon. He has a pretty good idea already.

Struder, the president of a Cincinnati-based marketing firm, was visiting the Adirondacks earlier this month when a cannon fired at a recreated Colonial fort sent a ramrod flying more than 100 yards. It struck his left leg, fracturing the tibia just below the knee.

State Department of Labor officials plan to talk to the operators of the privately owned Fort William Henry about the accident to see if any state regulations were violated, said Karen Williamson, a department spokeswoman.

Struder, 52, and his wife, Shirley, were in Lake George on Oct. 2 as a stop on a fall foliage trip to celebrate their 31st anniversary. They were eating lunch on a concrete wall along the lake's southern shore when a gust of wind blew away their food container. As Struder got up to retrieve it, a cannon was fired at the nearby fort. Something hit his legs, knocking him to the ground.

"I was in shock. I didn't know what had happened," Struder said this week in a telephone interview from his home in Butler, Ky., about 25 miles south of Cincinnati.

The history buff soon realized he had been hit with a wooden ramrod about the length of a broomstick. The ramrod also struck his wife in the lower back, causing a bruise.

Police and an ambulance crew soon arrived, along with a fort employee dressed in an 18th century British soldier's uniform.

"I thought it was a long time to hold a grudge," Struder joked.

The ramrod was used to load the cannon. According to fort officials, it fell in front of the barrel just as the cannon fired, sending it hurtling through the air.

Paul Ackermann, an arms specialist at the West Point Museum, wonders if that's even possible.

"You can never say never because stranger things have happened in life, but that sounds very, very unlikely."

He said it's more likely that the ramrod was inadvertently left in the cannon prior to firing. That would explain the distance the ramrod covered, Ackermann said.

"A hundred yards would be nothing," he said.

Messages left with fort Director Dawn Littrell on Friday weren't immediately returned. But she told The Post-Star of Glens Falls that the wind blew the ramrod across the cannon's mouth.

"It was just a mishap from start to finish," Littrell told the newspaper.

The original fort was built by the British during the French and Indian War and then destroyed by the French in 1757 after a weeklong siege. The battle and subsequent massacre of some of the fort's garrison by France's Indian allies were retold in the James Fenimore Cooper novel, "The Last of the Mohicans."

In the 1950s, local businessmen reconstructed the fort as a tourist attraction featuring tour guides in period uniforms conducting daily musket and artillery demonstrations, including an hourly firing of the replica cannon that caused Struder's injury.

Struder said his attorney has been in contact with fort officials regarding his medical bills, but he declined to comment on any potential legal action.

While laid up at home, Struder watched the 1992 film version of "The Last of the Mohicans." Struder said he used to wonder what it would be like to experience the artillery barrages depicted in movies.

"It's not as hard to imagine as it used to be," he said.

[MarkG]

My wife is tired of telling people that she sprained her knee on the stairs. She's going to start saying that she was hit by a ramrod fired from a cannon.

Mark

[Silkie McDonough]

...and observers can't figure out why we make sure there are yards and yards and YARDS before the cannons.

Good idea Mike ...have her doing the crowd control of traffic in front of the cannon.

[LadyBarbossa]

It's horrid to hear of this. Alas, puts scutiny under the reenactors once more. But, accidents are bound to happen, considering how many times these things are fired. Indeed shows how dangerous this hobby is. But these people are most fortunate. I've heard worse stories.

~Lady B

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

sorry..some things are better left unsaid. post deleted.

Bo

Edited October 20, 2009 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[Crudbeard]

sorry..some things are better left unsaid. post deleted.

Bo

I am so...so...sorry that this happened. Everyone that participates in the Pub chating about cannons now feels that chilling dread creeping up your back. Will they do something? Will we like it?

Crudbeard

[Hawkyns]

There are two issues here. First is the fact that somebody screwed up bigtime when working that gun. Whether it was carelessness or inadequate training, somebody got hurt and the only thing we can say is that we are lucky it wasn't much worse.

Second is that, the more I read about this, on this board and on others, it seems that there is at least some form of coverup going on. I've been owning and firing blackpowder cannon for 25 years. Like the chap from West Point, I can't believe that a rammer falling across the muzzle is going to fly for 100 yards. Aerodynamics tells me that an unbalanced object like a rammer, propelled sideways from somewhere along the shaft, is going to cartwheel and hit the ground in a relatively short distance. the story being told by the fort does not make sense.

Unless we get real lucky, this is going to come back and bite us in the ass. It was only luck last year that prevented blackpowder weaponry being regulated fairly harshly in New York State. Actions like this only give ammunition to those who think we are just another bunch of gun toting nuts. The history that we provide is irrelevant, if the impression is that reenactors are unsafe in the pursuit of that history.

Hawkyns

[Blackbead]

The problem will be that all reenactors will be judged as a class - you can reenact for years without any accidents or mishaps but because someone else fails to take proper precautions your activities are regulated. Secondly, what reenactors do is perceived as a luxury by the masses and the "regulators." Lip service is given to the importance of studying and experiencing history but when push comes to shove a large segment of the public sees reenactors the same way they see LARP members - we are engaging in a hobby that we enjoy but what value do we add that justifies people getting their legs broken?

[MarkG]

The problem will be that all reenactors will be judged as a class - you can reenact for years without any accidents or mishaps but because someone else fails to take proper precautions your activities are regulated. Secondly, what reenactors do is perceived as a luxury by the masses and the "regulators." Lip service is given to the importance of studying and experiencing history but when push comes to shove a large segment of the public sees reenactors the same way they see LARP members - we are engaging in a hobby that we enjoy but what value do we add that justifies people getting their legs broken?

Was it reenactors who fired the cannon? I don't think that the article said. Some historic sites have staff members fire their cannons and muskets regularly.

When a reenactor does something dumb, the news coverage usually says so. As Hawkyns pointed out the official story already has unlikely details. The easy way out for the fort would be to blame a reenactor. Since they didn't, I think that a staff member was at fault.

Mark

[Blackbead]

Mark,

I think you're right. I hope that makes a difference.

Of course, in this "World's Funniest Video" world we are traveling through, it might not be a big deal anyway - the average TV watcher probably just wants to see video of this "hilarious" incident!

Blackbead

[Quartermaster James]

Yeah, but in the other incident felony charges are being pursued.

[Iron Hand]

I see Dark Clouds on the Horizon, and Dangerous Seas a comin'. In this uncertain world, there's plenty scalwags waitin' ta pounce on any opportunity ta mess with us....It's been stated on this forum several times before, No matter who they blame for this accident, We've all got to be as absolutely safety consciense as possible. No room for errors.... If there's any possible projectile involved.....Get it and everybody outa harm's way....Be Safe......Be Sane.....Survive...... We're dealin' with weapons that can possibly kill, in the wrong hands.....We have to keep them all out of the wrong hands, and the wrong hands away from potentially dangerous weapons.....

[Mission]

Not that Ive ben at to many but it seems like theres lots of alcohol at these things. Is seems common place that people are drinking and firing cannons and stuff.

At the events I've been to they try very hard to police this. At PiP, for example, the tavern doesn't even open until after the battle is over. Most people are pretty responsible in this regard. (Of course, it's the irresponsible who get all the coverage. The media has no use for responsible behavior - people don't pay as much attention to their reports then.)

I was firing cannon at an event not too long ago when a woman who was clearly in a state of altered consciousness (not to mention in bare feet!) came up to the cannon firing area asking to be put on a cannon team. She was gently but firmly guided away. Those of us who are concerned about safety do not want such people around when firing blackpowder.

[Mission]

If there is overlap, it is because the organizers can't spot every fool who decides to imbibe on the sly before firing their weapon. From my experience when such people are spotted, they are politely asked to leave.

[Capt. Sterling]

and in many cases they are never allowed back

[Hawkyns]

And some not so politely. I don't have much tolerance for idiots when it comes to safety.

Hawkyns

[Graydog]

It strikes me as sad the number of people that are firmly convinced that if they haven't personally been hurt then defacto their actions are safe.

I recently had a 30 min argument with a "pirate" about why you should not stick the barrel of a gun in your mouth, espcially at a public event in front of children. At the end of 30 min's I just threw my hands up and walked away.

I personally endorse the concept of event safety rules, published well in advance, and rigidly enforced by event staff. It's my personal experience that when we leave these matter's to peer instruction/concern the result is we get the most unsafe yahoo in the place telling us to piss off and zip support becuase in a non-structured group setting "peers" would rather avoid conflict than hold people accountable for safety.

[Hawkyns]

That is why we know our crews and most of us don't accept walk ons. Nobody crews my pieces that I have not known for some time and trained them personally. I know the difference between when they are sober and when they have had a couple. And they all know that if I EVER catch them trying to crew when they've had a drink, they are off the crew. Not just for that event, but permanently. Whether it's crewing a piece, shooting in the line, or sparring with blunts, you need to be stone sober and in top shape. Anything less, whether from drink, hangover, or illness, and you stand down. Period. How long for depends on how stupid you tried to be.

Hawkyns

[Capt. Sterling]

Well put Hawkyns.

[Dorian Lasseter]

That is why we know our crews and most of us don't accept walk ons. Nobody crews my pieces that I have not known for some time and trained them personally. I know the difference between when they are sober and when they have had a couple. And they all know that if I EVER catch them trying to crew when they've had a drink, they are off the crew. Not just for that event, but permanently. Whether it's crewing a piece, shooting in the line, or sparring with blunts, you need to be stone sober and in top shape. Anything less, whether from drink, hangover, or illness, and you stand down. Period. How long for depends on how stupid you tried to be.

Hawkyns

How very interesting you wrote this...

I was reading the thread(s) and commented to myself that I've taken myself off the line because of a headache and another time due to a headcold. No matter how much I enjoy crewing a gun, sparing, etc., I will not do so impaired. Not just for my own safety, but for the well-being of everyone else around me. I am responsible for my actions, and if they cause harm to others, that's on me. I wish this was a universal thought among the masses.

Yes I have done some damned stupid things in my youth - once - (I'll tell tales on myself later, not here). I learned from these experiences, luckily with little to no harm done but to my pride. So I can say 'been there, done that, thank gods no one got hurt'.

[Black Syren]

For the most part members of the Pub pretty much all know one another and know their crews. I have been a 'Family Member' here for a long while and never have I seen or heard one of our own acting irresponsibly. Much planning goes into these events for safety reasons for everyone involved. May I ask what events you have been to that you have seen such? Perhaps you may remember a crew name or the parties name of which you are basing your information?

[Silkie McDonough]

Most of us go to these things to see people and get drunk, theres bound to be some overlap. Not that I dink and shoot, I can barely find my car keys in the morning as it is.

Most of "us"? Who exactly are you referring to? Most of the re-enactor's that I have associated with are there for the enjoyment of it. To spend time with those of like & not so like minds. The work on the kit, character, garb etc. is it's own reward but it is also a pleasure to share that work and knowledge. The drinking & drunkenness is an aside that some do not choose to participate in at all.

That having been said. I propose that if you observe someone drinking & participating in battle you are socially obliged to report it. Simply informing an individual working crowd control would be sufficiant. That person will know who to report the impaired individual to and we would avoid a potentially deadly situation.

[callenish gunner]

Well said Silkie!

Some of us choose not to drynk at events. Or if we do it is well after the public has gone home. I for one have gone to 6 major events in the past couple of years taking the same unopened bottle of rum along, at Hampton last June we finally and between 12 folks sitting around the fire on Sunday night opened and finished the bottle(which means that between 12 folks we each had about one double shot each hardly enough to get any of us drunk) At the events I've been to the pyrates that I've dealt with have excused themselves from action because they took a drynk; Patrick and Willie and TigerBill, Jacky Tarr, Madame Grace. From my own dealings with these folks they have admitted what they'd done and sat out of a tactical after they had so much as one drynk. Can I claim that every participant was stone cold sober -not without a breath-a-lizer test. Thankfully the ones I have chosen to associate with have all been responsible in their handling of their weapons.

I have witnessed reckless behavior in the past and informed the organizers and withdrew from the field because of dangerous conditions, like discharging weapons within a crowd of spectators. That event is one I refuse to return to because of poor organization and lack of safety controls. I have witnessed accidents in my 40 years of doing these sort of things, but they were seldom caused by impairments but most often by carelessness.

Owning a weapon whether it be a blade of a flintlock or cannon doesn't guarantee that the individual knows how to handle it safely. Participation in events is a privilege not a right, and any that violate safety protocols should be removed and banned. If it looks dangerous to you make it known to somebody involved in the event at the time and not almost a year after the fact. At that point it is hearsay and hard to address or prove.

[Nathaniel Jameson]

It strikes me that this Mr. Struder has a great understanding of what can happen and a great sense of humor. I think that his attorney is keeping quiet because they don't want to embarrass the Fort. Unfortunately, it does come across as really suspicious that that would happen, considering that every demonstration of cannon firing I've ever seen, the ramrod was held on to by what I believe they call a powder monkey.

Anyways, I'm really glad to hear such harsh but necessary discipline from the lot of you, I'd feel a lot safer around you folks than around some of the Civil War reenactors I've met in the past.