"Boarders Away!"

[capnwilliam]

That's a great outfit you're wearing, by the way, Capt. Davies.

Capt. William

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

:) I thank ye kindly for the compliment, Capt. William! I also agree with most of your observations about pistols as auxilliary weapons. As most people of any era or location wielded swords in their right hand, and most pistols were made to be carried also in the right hand, it makes for a cumbersom combination. And unless they happened to have an abundance of pistols in reserve, I think most pirates would be reluctant to abuse his weapon in ways that might damage or break it. The exception might be as a cudgel, as most well-made pistols with heavy butt caps could certainly stand up to such use. Gilkerson, in BOARDERS AWAY, II even depicts someone throwing a pistol, though I can only see this being done in later periods, with an issued Sea-Service pistol, but not with any personally-owned weapon. On the other hand, pistols were largely inacurate at any significant range, so most of their effective use would have been pretty close up and personal. I think a lot of notions about the cutlass-pistol combination may actually come from interperative portraits of famous buccaneers posed holding a pistol and cutlass crossed over their chest. The best way to find out is to experiment and see if it works or not. By the way, the July issue of NQG has a nice article by Damashi of Tora, who participated in the CONQUEST Pirate Combat episode and writes about his experience. It answered some questions about the production that I had and I recommend it to all.

[the Royaliste]

Not to be a stickler, but under siege in a boarding, 'value' is not placed on weapons, only victory at any cost. Fire and throw down, hack and fire, holding fast. No time to be sentimental about one's sidearms. A bit more romance than I can stand. I find that even when reenacting, in the height of a sea battle, guns are being thrown down, misfires, wet powder, spent rounds, etc.....

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

:) Aye, I can't argue that. From the perspective of a "Board-ee" I'd do whatever it took to keep an aggressive boarder at a distance and back over the side, or dead on the deck in front of me. If that meant throwing

a pistol I wouldn't have time to reload anyway, so be it. If it meant shattering the stock over someone's unlucky head, that's fine , too. But, as aggressors, usually numerically superior and better armed, pyrates just might have had the latitude to be more discerning. Besides, who's to say for certain what was or wasn't? Reenacting helps fill in a lot of missing pieces, I know it has worked that way for me. But we know it's just that...a reenactment, no matter how thorough. And there are limits to just how deep we can see into the past.

[the Royaliste]

Yeah, but when your powder's wet, it doesn't matter wot century, it's still the same sea, mate! Reenacting removes Hollywood 'myths' fast:

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

I'll drink wi' ye to that, shipmate!

[capnwilliam]

I agree that when yer life's at stake, ye'd not be sentimental about using an empty pistol as a rock or club. But my question about the "Pirate's Weapons" show concerned the way they showed the LOADED piece being used.

If ypu had a loaded pistol, whether single-shot or repeater, whether flint, percussion or cartridge, "accurate" or not (and how INaccurate is even a smoothbore muzzleloader at 10 paces? ), would you wade right up to your adversary and place the muzzle against his torso?

Or would you stand back those ten paces, and take advantage of such reach as the pistol afforded you?

Capt. William

[John Maddox Roberts]

I'd say use the pistol from just out of sword range - say 5 or 6 feet. Close enough to hit, far enough to be relatively safe. By the way, we know it was a pirate custom to wear pistols slung in braces around the neck by a scarf - one such was found on the wreckage of the Whydah - thus when fired, you simply dropped it and it would hang there until you had a chance to reload or the fight was over.

[capnwilliam]

Good idea about the neck holder!

You'd be surprised how fast a person can close a 10 foot distance. That was always the prosecutor or plaintiff's argument against someone who had shot a knife wielder from such a distance: that the person holding the knife was "too far away" from the gun holder to be of any real threat to him; hence the argument of "self defense" was bogus.

Then they started doing experiments handing rubber knives to middle-aged, out of shape people and instructing them to "stab" someone while the stop watch ticked off their movements.

I understand it took about 1.5 seconds on the average. A young aggressive man with a sword could do it MUCH, I'd wager.

I'd also wager that (even) a smoothbore flintlock is more than plenty accurate enough to hit a man in the torso at ten feet.

Capt. William

[Hawkyns]

New to the discussion, but I'd say that with a large bore pistol, say over .50, then a single ball would not be your preferred load. Half a dozen swan drops or small shot would be much more reliable at short range. Has any actual loaded piece been recovered with load intact?

Hawkyns

[capnwilliam]

VERY good question, Mate Hawkins! Does anyone know the answer? I'm inclined to agree with you on the advantage of multiple smaller pellets over a single big one, for a close-range encounter.

I found a cite in Gilkerson's BOARDERS AWAY, Vol. 1, which indicates that "half the combined crews of each pair of guns, port and starboard, were designated as boarders. Three of these were called 'First Boarders', and were usually issued with a cutlass and a pistol."

Now, Gilkerson's talking about regular Navy, of the 1812 period; but here's definite citation for boarders being armed with such a combo.

Does that mean they USED same in the manner described on the "Conquest" episode under discussion? Well, that's another question!

Capt. William

[the Royaliste]

:) ...for my twopence, I'd gut shoot 'em, no chance for error. Worked well in another life..'69..

[Capt. Flint]

Hawkyns.... Yes ... an old pistol was found in a hidden part of an old house and it was still loaded. You can see the pistol on the photo page of the web site that my lovely Katey O'Tierny posted about the Delaware shipwreck museum. I cannot remember if it is under ports o call or raids. But, have a look and you can find the link she posted. There you will see the pistol. I'm not sure if they tell the story of the gun on the web site or not.

There was an old house that was part of an area frequented by pirates and rumrunners etc. The people who run the shipwreck site were called it to check the place out. They discovered an area behind a wall or something. There they found al sorts of artifacts, including the pistol as mentioned, still loaded....... The Capt.

[Saber]

Aye Captain Flint

I found that image of the gun you were talking about, very nice weapon...

I hope this image comes out ok.

<img src="http://www.discoversea.com/featured_artif/IMAG0008.JPG"/>

Well as you can see, it didn't work but the url to the site is listed in the code, anyone interested can take a look by pasting in:

http://www.discoversea.com/featured_artif/IMAG0008.JPG

or just clicking the link I accidently added

[Deacon Frye]

That pistol appears to have a swiveling retaining device at the muzzle for the ramrod, though it's hard to day for sure with the small pic.

These are found on some nineteenth-century pistols, but I don't recall ever seeing them earlier than that.

[Deacon Frye]

Here's an English 19th-century example from Butterfields:

[capnwilliam]

That be a beautiful piece, in the Butterfield's photo.

Did the article mention whether the hidden pistol was loaded with ball, or with shot, do ye recall, Capt. Flint?

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

If'n ye be interested in boarding actions, shipmates, I've been sending out some messages describing such an action from the War of 1812, as reported in Gilkerson's BOARDERS AWAY.

Go to Seadogges@yahoogroups.com

Capt. William

[Capt. Flint]

CapnWilliam... I believe the gun was loaded with ball. But, if you check the site, it might tell you more. It's been a while since we've been there.

[Montys Wench]

Aye, Would this be the Cap't of the Scorpion?

[capnwilliam]

Capt. Flint, do ye mean, Monty's Wench?

Capt. William

[capnwilliam]

This is a great topic, and we need to rejuvenate ths discussion. I believe I have to go back and answer a few of the older posts, and will do so, as time permits.

Reading Gilkerson's Classic, BOARDERS AWAY, shows how discilplined the navies were in 1812 era as far as sea battles and boarding actions were concerned.

Were our piratical brethern thus and so in battle? Or did they act more as a mob?

Capt. William

[Capt. Flint]

Capt. William.. I have no idea who or what Montys Wench is. As far as how disciplined were pirates in boarding..... well over all, they were very disciplined. ( to start out ) Considering most records show that they subdued their prey before boarding. They were able to board the ship with relative ease. Those same records describe pirates as not trying to board any ships during a running action. While I know that some pirates did engage in fights, the majority fought as a means to escape, very seldom was the idea to engage in a ongoing batle to take over.... Flint

[capnwilliam]

I worded one o' me last messages confusingly, and confusion inevitably resulted!

'Twas Monty's Wench who asked the question, on top of mesages by the two of us, whether "this be the Captain of the Scorpion"?

Since I was not familiar with the Scorpion, I was asking Monty's Wenxh whether 'twas Capt. Flint she was referring to.

Hope this clears the waters I muddied! :)

Capt. William

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

:)

'Tis none other than Meself be Captain of the "Scorpion", mates, or have ye forgotten me so bloody soon?! And if Monty's Wench be who I think she be, I ask her: "How's all our shipmates in beautiful Olcott Beach?" Ye Pyrate Brotherhood sends warmest regards.