To polish or not to polish, that is the question?

[Joe Pyrat]

Just received my Loyalist Arms & Repairs doglock blunderbuss (and yes I got a few strange looks from my fellow sailors while carrying it to the boat not to mention the seagulls became quite scarce). Since I'm aboard ship, as it were, it has already starting to tarnish in the salt air. This brought to mind polishing, which brought to mind, would they have actually polished them? From my previous muzzleloading experience we browned barrels in order to do a controlled rusting of the barrel so as to prevent uncontrolled rusting. It occurs to me that letting the barrel turn green naturally might be more historically correct, but perhaps not structurally sound, although the bronze fittings aboard don't seem to be suffering any structural damage as a result of this. Blair at Loyalist suggested that if I did polish it I use some carnauba wax to temporarily prevent oxidation. What say ye ladies and gentlemen of the coast?

Additionally, the stock is a nice piece of rosewood I believe and I'm planning on using some boiled linseed oil on it to protect the wood. Any thoughts on this?

[michaelsbagley]

I can't speak to the polishing or not polishing brass...

But as for linseed oil on the stock, I'm on the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum and I poke my nose into the "Gun Bulders" section from time to time... And historical finishes on guns come up a lot... Linseed does seem to be historical, but most of the modern builders seem to dislike to loathe the stuff. It seems most modern linseed, even the stuff sold as "boiled linseed oil" isn't what it used to be. I think (and I'm reading between lines here so take this with a grain of salt) modern boiled linseed oils aren't quite as boiled as what period boiled linseed oils are. So a couple of suggestions I see come up on the muzzleloading forum is to either add "japan dryers" to the linseed oil, or if you are VERY BRAVE and VERY CAREFUL, boil modern boiled linseed oil into a greater reduction.

Hope this helps.

[callenish gunner]

this is what i have used on most of my personal weapons for about 30 years:

Renaissance Wax

The British Museum, Victoria & Albert Museum, Royal Armories (Tower of London in London & Leeds, National Army Museum, Imperial War Museum, the Wallace Collection, H.M. the Queen's Royal Armorer (at Marlborough House), the Guards Museum (Wellington Barracks), the Gurkha Museum (Winchester), the Military Museums at Aldershot, Royal Green Jackets Regimental Museum, the Gunsmith at Chatham Historic Dockyard (Kent), the Johnny Armstrong Gallery, and Museum of Border Arms & Armor (Scotland), National Museum of Antiquities of Scotland. Belgium: Musee Royal de l'Armee et d'Histoire Militaire-Brussels. USA: Gunsmith at Colonial Williamsburg, the Smithsonian, Metropolitan Museum of Art, Academy of Art-Honolulu, Texarcana College-Bladesmithing & Metallurgy, Rockfeller Restorations, and many many more institutions around the world

these folks can't get it too far off the mark

[Joe Pyrat]

Interesting Michael, I'll keep that in mind. Use to use boiled linseed oil on modern rifle stocks and it produced a much nicer finish than that which came from the factory. But then it has been a while.

Callenish Gunner, never heard of this product before but it does look interesting. Seems I could use it on both the stock and barrel. Not sure about waxing the stock though, seems like it would make it feel kind of strange. Does it soak in and still feel like wood to the touch or set on the surface? They say a little goes a long way, has that been your experience? I was thinking about getting the small bottle (2.25 fl oz) to give it a try, approximately how many applications would this amount do on a blunderbuss?

Edited February 3, 2009 by Joe Pyrat

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

As an ex-Navy man we polished "brightwork" constantly in the modern times using Nev-R-Dull. I don't know about non-military ships, but all Royal Navies of the powers of the day kept things shiny. Gave seamen something to do and kept things from deteriorating. That salt will get into the pores of your brass and over time will cause problems. A can of Nev-R-Dull or a can of brasso will help keep your investment sound for a long time.

Bo

[Hawkyns]

Problem is, most of the guns we see in the museums are not in the original finishes. They have been cleaned up and preserved in ways that would not have been originally done. So the question is, do you want your piece to have a modern finish that people recognize, or do you want it to look like the originals did? If you want to have a fancy modern piece, by all means use the modern stock waxes and the RenWax on the metal. Personally, I hate a shiny gun. It reflects light to show your position, and glare from the barrel can make it hard to site. I let mine naturally age to the brown/black patina that comes from general rust and black powder corrosion. Any physical surface rust is rmoved but the stain left is not. Originally, they used powdered brick dust as a scouring agent. Cleans things up nicely but will not give you the mirror finish that comes witha modern piece. I use beeswax on my stocks so they are water resistant, but not shiny. Brass I let go to black, just removing any actual green corrosion.

A bunch of years ago, Kit Ravensheer brought a piece to a muster that was done in an original mid 17th C finish. He painted the barrel with roofing tar and the stock with deck paint. Its anothrr case where we have to be careful not to let our modern notions of looks spoil our interpretation.

Hawkyns

[Joe Pyrat]

Capt. Bo, I was originally planning on using Nev-R-Dull, used it back in my Navy days. Never liked Brasso much as you had to clean up the buildup around edges, etc. after applying. Brass will naturally turn green in a saltwater environment, or a very nice dark, copper brown if you can keep it away from salt spray, I was thinking this might give it a more authentic look. This is not to say dirty or corroded mind you. I use to clean my old Barlow winches (bronze) all the time but they retained their brown patina. However, if I have a nice clean stock that might seem kind of strange. Sounds like most of ye keep things polished though so I'll probably go that route. Still I wonder what the drill was back in the day though.

Anyone been aboard a ship with brass guns? Were they polished?

[Joe Pyrat]

Cap'n Hawkyns, that be exactly what I was wondering and thinking about going for. Althugh I'm not too sure how stealthy I'll be with a blunderbuss at night, especially once I tough her off.

A fellow I know here in Charleston who does weapons inspections at events says he won't pass a piece if it isn't all cleaned up, although he has relented on that a bit after I explained what I was getting at. Have any of you had a problem with this when using an "aged" looking piece at a reenactment or other event?

Also, kind of a related question. The so called "Sea Service" weapons with painted stocks. When exactly does this date from?

[blackjohn]

If you believe these sorts of things. This was what, part of Roberts' articles as I recall...

V.

To keep their Piece, Pistols, and Cutlash clean, and fit for Service: In this they were extravagantly nice, endeavouring to outdo one another, in the Beauty and Richness of their Arms, giving sometimes at an Auction (at the mast) 30 or 40 l. a Pair, for Pistols. These were slung in Time of Service, with different coloured Ribbands, over their Shoulders, in a Way peculiar to thse Fellows, in which they took great Delight.

As for the RN, I have seen (and posted, either here on the Pirate Brethren forum or mail list) a slightly later period accounting of the ship's muskets from... HMS Terrible(?)... some were left bright, some were japanned. I seem to recall reading the bright ones were left that way so they could still fit bayonets.

Personally, I think it is all a matter of personal choice.

[Patrick Hand]

Did you get the brass barrel or the steal barrel?

On my Buss (I got it from callenish gunner) I scrapped off the finish, and restrained the stock, I ground off the muzzle ring (I liked it, but because everyone's buss has the muzzle ring, they look the same... kinda like they were all Government issue...) I then sanded the bright shinny finish off....that mirror finish just looks too modern to my eye... Well then I added a sling swivel and stud, and carved my initials into the stock.....

[Patrick Hand]

OH yeah.... I used a mixture of 50-50 boiled linseed oil and bees wax... I melted the bees wax in a small cleaned out paint tin with a torch (Outside...) mixed in the linseed oil... then let it cool.

I rubbed a little bit onto the stock and worked it in with the heel of my hand.... then let it completely dry/harden, then repeat every so often.... I also touch up the finish after cleaning it, jut use just a dab of the mixture, so it only has a very thin layer (I also work some into all of the pin holes so moisture cant get into the stock that way....

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Sighting a blunderbus??? Hmmm.... is that really a consideration fellers? HeeHee

Bo

[blackjohn]

Good one.

[Hawkyns]

Sighting a blunderbus??? Hmmm.... is that really a consideration fellers? HeeHee

Bo

Maybe not. But it sure as hell makes a difference when I take my matchlock into competition or my Tulle into the woods.

Hawkyns

[Crudbeard]

Sighting a blunderbus??? Hmmm.... is that really a consideration fellers? HeeHee

Bo

In regard to polishing brass blunderbusses, the area around the touch hole will get very tarnished from the black powder, and I have not found Brasso or Nev-R-Dull will get rid of it. I use a green scrubbie, which dulls the factory shine of the brass a bit, but gets the piece cleaned in a reasonable amount of time.

In regard to black painted sea service stocks on flintlocks, this seems to date back to the 18th century, and actually indicates that the military issue firearm was in fact used by the navy, according to William Gilkerson. I think that the black paint probably preserved the wooden stock better than the linseed oil mixture, although the oil is still used today on masts and spars in traditional rigs. The formula up here on the coast of Maine is half boiled linseed oil, to half turpentine to thin it out and make it penetrate, with a capful of Japan drier. Straight linseed tends to stay gummy too long.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Just-a-funnin Hawkyns!

Bo

[Hawkyns]

If you believe these sorts of things. This was what, part of Roberts' articles as I recall...

V.

To keep their Piece, Pistols, and Cutlash clean, and fit for Service: In this they were extravagantly nice, endeavouring to outdo one another, in the Beauty and Richness of their Arms, giving sometimes at an Auction (at the mast) 30 or 40 l. a Pair, for Pistols. These were slung in Time of Service, with different coloured Ribbands, over their Shoulders, in a Way peculiar to thse Fellows, in which they took great Delight.

As for the RN, I have seen (and posted, either here on the Pirate Brethren forum or mail list) a slightly later period accounting of the ship's muskets from... HMS Terrible(?)... some were left bright, some were japanned. I seem to recall reading the bright ones were left that way so they could still fit bayonets.

Personally, I think it is all a matter of personal choice.

English Civil War Firearms- Donald Reid, Partizan Press, 1989 "Most guns of the 17th century were stained a very dark brown, in fact almost a black colour. This was achieved by dissolving alkanet root, with perhaps soot and burnt umber in linseed oil. Several coats were applied, allowing each coat to dry in turn. On munition quality weapons, the stock and barrel were simply painted black." "Barrels were sometimes protected by 'russetting' which involved coating the metal with a brown pigment, rather than the more modern process of browning which uses a chemical reaction."

The reference to the variances in ships muskets is, according to Howard Blackmore in "British Military Firearms, 1650-1850", from the 1740's. Also, many English firearms of the 17th and early 18th C were stocked with beech, not walnut, which would give a significantly different look to what we commonly thing of as a polished walnut stock. I've stained some of my stocks with black leather dye and then beeswax over it. It is personal preference, of course, but hopefully being done with an eye to what was common period practice, using period finishes. The chrome shiny polish on barrels and stocks that look polyurethaned may be the modern version of pretty and perhaps easier to maintain, but they just don't look right.

Hawkyns

Hawkyns

[blackjohn]

The reference to the variances in ships muskets is, according to Howard Blackmore in "British Military Firearms, 1650-1850", from the 1740's.

That sounds right. I believe the inventory I mentioned was from 1744. About 20 after the decade most of us think as the tail end of our era.

[Quartermaster James]

I'm in the middle of refinishing the stock on my MVTC fowler. I stripped off the factory varnish (shellac actually, I think), and have stained the teak, and am now about a fortnight into finishing her off with a good old fashioned hand rubbed oil finish. This takes a lot of time and effort; that is why many guys over at the muzzleloading forum choose more modern methods. Nothing however, IMHO, approaches the quality finish you get with BLO.

The trick is very, very fine coats; just enough to "wet the shine", hand rubbed into the stock (you should feel the stock warm from the work).

The old timer's rule of thumb is once an hour for a day, once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year for life.

I've got about 20 layers on her now, and she's beginning to look real nice.

[Joe Pyrat]

Black John, Roberts Articles were the first thing that came to mind, but I wonder if what they considered serviceable was what we think of as serviceable. As an armorer I had people cleaning weapons sometimes to just keep them busy, not that the weapon actually needed to be "that" clean to be serviceable. But then these are the same people who would spend hours encasing a bottle in some of the finest line work imaginable so it may be that they did go to extremes in cleaning their weapons.

Mr. Hand, very nice antiquing job. I like the shoulder strap it would make toting the weapon a lot easier. Something to think about on a more Buccaneer period rig where you were going to be marching through the jungle to get to Panama, and something to consider if you are hauling it around a reenactment site all day.

QM James, this is how I've treated all my rifles in the past and I'm tempted to do it with the blunderbuss, but part of me thinks that for reenactment purposes a more tool like appearance might be preferable, but then I come back to Roberts Articles again and wonder. One can make the point these were pirates, more interested in drinking rum than cleaning weapons, but then you can also make the point that these men lived and died by these weapons so lavisning a lot of attention on them would be a logical reaction.

It seems there are no absolutes here as with most things related to history. Thanks for all the assistance.

[Quartermaster James]

One can make the point these were pirates, more interested in drinking rum than cleaning weapons, but then you can also make the point that these men lived and died by these weapons so lavisning a lot of attention on them would be a logical reaction.

It seems there are no absolutes here as with most things related to history. Thanks for all the assistance.

Aye, well said. And, as with much in this hobby, a great deal depends on your chosen impression. My fowler would not be first grabbed for any on ship conflict as much as used for provisioning excursions on land; something of a heirloom or trophy piece for a pyrate.

That rosewood (teak) would take an oil finish right nicely. You might also want to consider treating it with aqua fortis if you want to darken/blacken it up a bit.

One more nice bit about an oil finished stock is that it just feels, well, right. Like a fine piece of wood, not something slicked up with resin, shellac, varnish, or polyurethane. Just my humble opinion that.

Another option for a sling is just a long piece of cloth. If'n you keep a few inches to a foot hanging from the front, you also have quick access to patch material. Everything you carry has a use.

In my experience, RenWax pretty much vanishes to the sight and touch. I use it on all my blades. I plan to finish off this stock with RenWax, although Patrick's work has me considering beeswax now. I make a beeswax and walnut oil for almost all my other woodwork, including smoking pipes, and it gives excellent results.

And, need I add, nice work Mr. Hand, as always!

Edited February 4, 2009 by Quartermaster James

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

In all honesty, I rarely polish mine, but it has a very easy life and the climate here isn't harsh at all. I clean it as I do all my weapons and part of my kit is a brass "toothbrush" sized wire brush that is used at the touch-hole/vent after useage. Once I replace the lock and use it more, that will change though. It has alot of black stain to it from before I owned it, but is a sound piece. I do not live in a saltwater environment so I really don't know all the ins&outs therein. The great thing about this forum is I get to learn and share, mixing experiences and tried practices of others.

A before;

..and after shot;

An old ca. 1970ish CVA kit still a work in progress.

Bo

Edited February 4, 2009 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[Capn Bob]

Well, I got nothing much to add but this: I grew up in the US Army, me father being Sarge First Class, and I remember him a-polishing all *his* brass (with Brasso). So if it were me, I'd be a-polishing, but that's just me childhood talking...

And when I get home tonight, its some Tortuga Rum Cake for me...

[Joe Pyrat]

Nice antiquing job Capt. Bo, looks like it's seen some action.

Capn Bob, I've seen Tortuga Rum Cake and want to try one one of these days, looks great.

Mr. Hand, you ask if I had the brass barrel. I do have the brass barrel.

I'm going to take it out to Charles Towne Landing on Saturday when we get qualified with flintlocks and matchlocks so the black powder guys can have a look. It is time period correct for 1670 so, although we won't be using it in the demo, it will fit in with the site. Might be fun to have it on the Adventure since she has nary a gun with which to defend herself.

[blackjohn]

Black John, Roberts Articles were the first thing that came to mind, but I wonder if what they considered serviceable was what we think of as serviceable.

Who can say for sure... I think this is one of those times when I'd apply Occam's Razor... entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. Or to put it in plain English, in this case, they did what they said they were going to do.