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Simplicity "Jack Sparrow" and other mainstream patterns..


LadyBrower

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So, I have the Simplicity "Jack Sparrow" Costume pattern, which includes a coat, vest, breeches and shirt. I used it to make my hubby's Captain Morgan costume for Halloween: (lol)

captain2.jpg

I was wondering how accurate or close to accurate the pattern is (not the costume I made), if there were adjustments that can be made to use the vest and coat pattern for reenactment wear, or if I should just purchase a new pattern.

And for that matter, are there any mainstream patterns that are good for reenactment attire? JoAnn's is having a sale next week: all patterns are $1.99, so if there is anything that can be done for them I thought that would be a great way to save a bit of coin... If it's worth it. =)

As usual, your help is always appreciated...

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

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So, I have the Simplicity "Jack Sparrow" Costume pattern, which includes a coat, vest, breeches and shirt. I used it to make my hubby's Captain Morgan costume for Halloween: (lol)

I was wondering how accurate or close to accurate the pattern is (not the costume I made), if there were adjustments that can be made to use the vest and coat pattern for reenactment wear, or if I should just purchase a new pattern.

And for that matter, are there any mainstream patterns that are good for reenactment attire? JoAnn's is having a sale next week: all patterns are $1.99, so if there is anything that can be done for them I thought that would be a great way to save a bit of coin... If it's worth it. =)

As usual, your help is always appreciated...

I know this pattern has been debated on this forum at least a few times before, but I honestly can't begin to remember the discussion topic titles to search for them... And I never paid enough attention to those discussions to remember anything useful.... Except that the patterns seem to be a far cry away from accurate. I have the simplicity pattern (for Renn-Faire use), and all of the Reconstructing History patterns to compare them to, as well as over the last several months I have begun to draft my own patterns based on what I have learned from using the Reconstructing History Patterns and extensive review of line drawings from historical costuming books and archaeological reports.

I guess the best question to start with is, what look are you going for?

A pirate Captain?

A crewman?

A more gentlemanly pirate? (wearing lots of looted finery)

A more rough and tumble man's man working class sailor/pirate?

There are lots of opinions as to just exactly a pirate may look, most have some historic justification, but the least flashy and least trodden path is the one in most of people to follow it (IMO).

There are online sources for period sketches of clothing patterns, if you are confident in your ability to draft patterns, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to use the Sparrow costume as a base, and then majorly alter them to a more historic line. Or if you can find a copy of the "Cut Of Men's Clothing" by Norah Waugh (or is that one the Janet Arnold book, I always get those two confused), there are plenty of historic patterns sketches in there that you can scale up and alter the sparrow costume to more resemble...

Anyways, there is no easy answer to your question, as there are lots of differing opinions, and most of them valid opinions... You relly need to decide which path you want to take and get a bit more specific, then those who are most knowledgeable about the gentlemanl;y look, or the common look, or whatever look you choose will be better able to help you.

Cheers

Edited by michaelsbagley
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In general the Simplicity "Jack Sparrow" pattern is not accurate out of the box. (or bag, as the case may be.)

Some notes I would have for the pattern are,

The shirt collar is to big, the way the construction of the shirt is made isn't accurate.

A period waist coat will have a silt and "tails" (for lack of a better term)

The coat would also have a silt in the back of the skirts. (For riding horses)

Both the coat and waistcoat would have sharper neck lines, the rounded line is late for GOAP.

DSCN0342.JPG

Hope that makes sense.

The pants are way off, if I remember front fall breeches don't come into play until mid century.

Having said all that. What I currently wear (except the breeches and trousers) is based off that pattern.

You could modify it, if your savvy enough. Have a look through here.

Costumer Manifesto

Also there is a lot of info in Capt'n Twill. Try a search there. Lots of info there.

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Good info guys!

I'll just add, that if you are not up to drafting your own patterns, Reconstructing History's patterns are well worth the $. You get a little History of the historical garment you are trying to make and original examples are cited.

They can be tricky at times to put together, if you are less than an intermediate tailor/seamstress... but there are enough folks here (see the above two posts) that have trodden the path that they could answer any questions you may have and pass on some hard earned knowledge.

Good Luck, and post your progress!

Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/

Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression!

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Another thing you may want to do is thoroughly read through the below discussion topics... There is a TON of good information contained in those threads, and if you start directing any additional questions in those threads they will become even more in depth so in two months time when the next person asks those type of questions, even more of them will already be answered. :D

Minimum Garb Standard This is kind of supposed to be an "Authenticity 101" discussion (geared mostly towards men)

Female Minimum Garb Standards Same as above, but geared towards women.

Top 10 Items for your pirate Kit various opinions and lists of gear/clothing/items those with experience think would be most valuable to a beginner.

Hope these help.

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The coat I currently wear is made from the Simplicity pattern. I used a medium-grade linen, and I did alter it by adding a back slit, and I lined the coat (the coat in the pattern is unlined) with a lighter-grade linen. This made the coat a bit heavier and hang nicer.

As for problems, I found the waist length too long, so the flare doesn't sit quite right, and which makes the coat hang below the knee. And without some kind of stabilizing trim or under-facings, the top of the coat tends to want to fold over, like a collar. Also, at least for me, the sleeves were too long, and I thought that the cuffs and the end off the sleeves were too baggy. I used the size small pattern, so maybe the extra small would have helped. Don't know.

The pants just suck. There is so much room in the rear, it makes you look like a bubble butt. And they are the wrong period. I made them, tried them on, and went "No frekin way" and donated them to Good Will.

I made the shirt, but I don't like it. As stated, the collar is too big, and for me being female, the slit down the front was so deep, I would be exposing what little bosom I have, so I had to hand sew it back up to a safe level.

I have not made the vest, so can't comment on that.

With some alterations, the coat and shirt will work, but the pants are a total waste of time.

...schooners, islands, and maroons

and buccaneers and buried gold...

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You can do everything right, strictly according to procedure, on the ocean, and it'll still kill you. But if you're a good navigator, a least you'll know where you were when you died.......From The Ship Killer by Justin Scott.

"Well, that's just maddeningly unhelpful."....Captain Jack Sparrow

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The coat I currently wear is made from the Simplicity pattern. I used a medium-grade linen, and I did alter it by adding a back slit, and I lined the coat (the coat in the pattern is unlined) with a lighter-grade linen. This made the coat a bit heavier and hang nicer.

As for problems, I found the waist length too long, so the flare doesn't sit quite right, and which makes the coat hang below the knee. And without some kind of stabilizing trim or under-facings, the top of the coat tends to want to fold over, like a collar. Also, at least for me, the sleeves were too long, and I thought that the cuffs and the end off the sleeves were too baggy. I used the size small pattern, so maybe the extra small would have helped. Don't know.

The pants just suck. There is so much room in the rear, it makes you look like a bubble butt. And they are the wrong period. I made them, tried them on, and went "No frekin way" and donated them to Good Will.

I made the shirt, but I don't like it. As stated, the collar is too big, and for me being female, the slit down the front was so deep, I would be exposing what little bosom I have, so I had to hand sew it back up to a safe level.

I have not made the vest, so can't comment on that.

With some alterations, the coat and shirt will work, but the pants are a total waste of time.

Yeah, I have no interest in the pants, or the shirt really, I like Kass's pattern that I found through Gentleman of Fortune. It was the coat I was particularly interested in. When I made it for the costume I made it in a large or medium and it fit nice in the shoulders, but did hand a little low, but I also was usual stretch velvet (ick). I too had a bit of trouble with the collar, but a few buttons helped. I could definately make it round like Jack mentioned, but I am frightened of drafting up my own pattern just yet.

I think my other question was if the vest (waistcoat?) was long enough too, I was looking at some other pictures and many of them seem longer. And I am not sure what was meant by "tails". as in like, a slit up the back like the coat?

Thanks again for all your help...

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders

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I can speak only for the shirt. It is "passable" The gussets under the arms are built into the pattern and there are no gussets at the neck. The sleeves were a bit full but again, passable. If you have the shirt use it for now and work on the other things being accurate then go back to the shirt later.

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Heysa, LadyBrower.

I'll chime in on this, too. And agree with th' lot here.

No. The pattern is not accurate. It is a costume pattern. But it's perhaps the only major commercial pattern from the big three pattern makers that's close enough. However, the pattern is more for F&I and Rev War style and not GAoP. So, if ye want to make it as such, yes it requires LOTS of altering. Unless you want to do LOTS of altering, then it would be in yo'r best interest to get a more period accurate pattern if period accurate is what ye are lookin' for.

Here is the most recent coat I made using the pattern but made quite a bit of alterations to the pattern to be a little closer to period - bigger cuffs, no curve at the neckline, more pleats on the side back and the slit up the back of the coat.

Crimsoncoat.jpg

Two waistcoats I used the pattern but made alterations.

This one I left the back as it with no slit up the back. But there are opening slits on the side back.

Barbossawaistcoatback.jpg

Here ye can see the slit up the back to the waist and the slit openings on the side back.

blackgoldwaistcoatback.jpg

I'll have to take pics of the other two I have made from this pattern but with alterations. They are much different.

No, the waistcoat pattern is not long enough. You do have to lengthen it. Cause the longer pattern reaches the upper thighs just below the hips. Awefully short really. That's more something for 1760 and beyond.

The risk with the major commerical patterns is the amount of alterations ye must make to make it look even remotely period. Lots of study helps.

Have we confused ye yet? :)

~Lady B

Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!"

"I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed."

The one, the only,... the infamous!

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haha. Yes, I am a wee bit confused. But I am understanding. I appreciate the visuals, that helps. I guess I'll start by looking for images. I have a knack for being able to cut and sew sans pattern if I know what something is supposed to look like in the end (this drove my grandmother nuts while I was making my gown to sing at graduation!). If anyone has any other suggestions for visuals that would be appreciated. I'll be searching through the "archives" for sure. =)

*le sigh* silly boys need to wear clothes...

Many thanks once more.

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders

www.myspace.com/faerienoodle

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Of course this is all coming from a Period Correct point of view.

If you just want to play Pirate and not really care about what they actually wore between 1680 - 1720, then

go ahead and use the Simplicity pattern. Really isn't that bad of a pattern (At least as far as the shirt, wasitcoat, coat goes.)

With minor modifications you can make a decent costume. Throw on some bucket boots and yell Arrgg! :lol:

It's all about what direction you want to go in.

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Or if you can find a copy of the "Cut Of Men's Clothing" by Norah Waugh (or is that one the Janet Arnold book, I always get those two confused), there are plenty of historic patterns sketches in there that you can scale up and alter the sparrow costume to more resemble...

cheers

That would be Norah Waugh's Cut of Men's Clothes... Janet Arnold's book covering late 17th/early 18th century only contains women's garments unfortunately.

If you wish to be as accurate with yer pirate gear as you are with your ACW, steer clear of the Jack Sparrow pattern

Edited by Capt. Sterling


"I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers

Crewe of the Archangel

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So I've been sifting through old threads in the Captain Twill section all morning, and of course consulting the Gentleman of Fortune site... I was thinking of using one of the patterns from his site, but kind of putting it over the simplicity pattern so I could sort of get the right sizing. Does that make sense? Or is it easier to measure and draft a new pattern? ugh. I keep going back and forth.

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders

www.myspace.com/faerienoodle

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Lady Bower,

my entire husbands coat and vest were MADE from that pattern---!!!and we went to PiP this past december!!!!! no one knew { or perhaps cared}---everyone raved about the coat......... i can keep a secret about where and how and why i did what i did.............

and honestly , i made the slops pattern myself off pair of my husbands levis and adjusted to be period correct { we shall not discuss other patterns available-i would then be accused of calumny! simply said::::-i could not make them fit the dear husband right-- and i made at least 20 sample pairs.......they turned into kids slops...{ who dont care about how they fit.....}

with the jack sparrow pattern---- i adjusted, tweaked , added here and there made extra panels to the sides to make double the flounces, made different pockets, changed the shape of the bell of the sleeve a bit...

on the vest/ waist coat.. made a back panel same length as front, witha slit up the side as they did years back then

the pants from the jack sparrow costume are not from the right period.... golden age of piracy pant closed in a centered fly front,not a dropped breach front........

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... LOOK LOOK LOOK---at extant garment samples---study art fromthat period and pay close attention to details of clothing and recreate the LOOK........

if YOU drove your gramma nuts changing your gown pattern years ago, YOU CAN DO THIS.... SO DO IT!

i reccomend that you use same materials as back then== linen , wool, linsey woolsey.........

feel free to PM me.......

and if you want, i can send pics of what i did .. i will make the dh model his coat and waist coat and send them to you...

i would imagine that you have years of sewing experience { as evidence of your work shown}........ TRUST YOUR SEWERS GUT.... find a way to recreate the look as a modern seamstress/fashion designer........

i made my stays on my machine enterily except sewing the lacing holes and back of the bias tape { which i made myself}......... want a pic of that too???

YOU DONOT HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT/HOW YOU DO about your choices in creating your period costumes...........

take alltheir advice and use as a springboard of information that you can garner teh best ideas and apply them as you see fit and help you.....

remember WE ARE PIRATES!!!........... WE DO THINGS THEY WAY WE WANT.....WE TOSS OUT RULES THAT OPPRESS US... WE CAN PLUNDER A GOOD IDEA ! AND RECREATE WHAT WE SEE THAT WE LIKE AND WANT TO IMITATE... but we dont necessarily have to do it this way or that way--- i think the idea of understanding is, that we know why they did what they did, and how they did... but, what reason have we not to take advantage of 21 century technology?{ and i have discussed this with a few people.... we can agree to disagree........

hey-- we have 9 kids--- we are NONCONFORMISTS.....haha ha aha-- i have mind and i know how to USE it.....

and i can see that youare the same......... trying to apply what you already know to get what you want!!!

feel free to PM me.........

lady constance

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So I've been sifting through old threads in the Captain Twill section all morning, and of course consulting the Gentleman of Fortune site... I was thinking of using one of the patterns from his site, but kind of putting it over the simplicity pattern so I could sort of get the right sizing. Does that make sense? Or is it easier to measure and draft a new pattern? ugh. I keep going back and forth.

I know what you are talking about and sometimes yes, it does work, but not always, so always make a mock first before cutting your good fabric


"I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers

Crewe of the Archangel

http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel#

http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/

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So I've been sifting through old threads in the Captain Twill section all morning, and of course consulting the Gentleman of Fortune site... I was thinking of using one of the patterns from his site, but kind of putting it over the simplicity pattern so I could sort of get the right sizing. Does that make sense? Or is it easier to measure and draft a new pattern? ugh. I keep going back and forth.

I know what you are talking about and sometimes yes, it does work, but not always, so always make a mock first before cutting your good fabric

Oh yes, That is what the Walmart "dollar rack" is for... although it seems that they have raised the price to $1.50. Jerks.

Edited by LadyBrower

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders

www.myspace.com/faerienoodle

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Lady Bower,

i would imagine that you have years of sewing experience { as evidence of your work shown}........ TRUST YOUR SEWERS GUT.... find a way to recreate the look as a modern seamstress/fashion designer........

lady constance

I beg to differ on this... do not trust your modern sewer's gut too much... as 18th century clothing construction can often be very different from how we sew today.... prime example the sleeves both on women's garments and men's, if done correctly for the time period, can often be troublesome to the average modern day sewer.


"I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers

Crewe of the Archangel

http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel#

http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/

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Once again, it truly all boils down to how authentic do you wish to be?


"I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers

Crewe of the Archangel

http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel#

http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/

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i wish to appear historically correct!!!!!!--the shape, curve, style, fabric........

i wish to use period correct fabric as far as possible...{and economically feasible for my hobby}

and i also have no problem drafting a new pattern off of an old and close in line and shape-- shape and line of the dress beign similar.........i COULD start with draping on a mannequin if i so choose to--- but WHY would i reinvent the wheel?

i can look at waughs and arnolds drafts and make slits and slices to draft a new pattern from a garment that is close........

if i can reshape an older used wool double breasted sailors coat by removing the double breast on one side and get the line and look of a nautical jacket, why shouldnt i? what great harm to re enacting does this cause?

logic please...........

what HARM is there in using your mind and talents and skills and abilities to do this?

i think it is fabulous that people DID make patterns for those who cannot draft their own...

i think all the how to's are fabulous.......

and i am grateful for both........

so it seems that lady browers questions about HOW and WHAT needs to be changed to MAKE the jack sparrow pattern PERIOD CORRECT can be answered........ without ANY mention about hand sewing,personal choices/opinipons, period correct methods of sewing..........LETS ANSWER THE WOMANS QUESTIONS.....

can you note the differences? not jsut WHAT is wrong,BUT HOW TO CORRECT it to make it period correct........

and anyone who dares check my seams and lifts my skirt or stays or mantua, well..... better be prepared to take it on the chops--- unless they have ASKED permission to do so first.......... LOL......

Q. which is it????????? a person is accepted because of the WAY they do things,VERSUS

their garment LOOKS period correct-fabric and shape......

lady constance

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Lady Bower,

i would imagine that you have years of sewing experience { as evidence of your work shown}........ TRUST YOUR SEWERS GUT.... find a way to recreate the look as a modern seamstress/fashion designer........

lady constance

I beg to differ on this... do not trust your modern sewer's gut too much... as 18th century clothing construction can often be very different from how we sew today.... prime example the sleeves both on women's garments and men's, if done correctly for the time period, can often be troublesome to the average modern day sewer.

I don't know if it's good or bad, but I have not really been "schooled" in any particular method of sewing. I was taught many techniques used for American Civil war stuff, my grandmother taught me basic sewing... I have a natural talent for the trade which has not been so much developed in any respect. I am a half blank chalk board... I would love to learn all I can about what it is to be period correct and "authentic" and do with it what I can within my time constraints, ability and budget. I don't mean to cause trouble. *sniffle* And I really sew most things by hand....

My motivation stems not only from the desire not to have to purchase yet another pattern (which is helpful), but also my interest in why it is not appropriate as I am still learning all the little details of fashion from the GAoP. I like the comparison. It makes it far easier for me to understand how to do something the correct way and why it is that way. Does that make sense? I hope so.

For now, I must drink my tea and go to bed.

Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders

Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures

Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason.

www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders

www.myspace.com/faerienoodle

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Lady Brower ~

When I first started this, I was unsure as which way (Hollywood or PC) I wanted to play. The reason you want to play (casual entertainment with an Arrr, or educational entertainment?) will have a very great deal in pointing you in the right direction for patterns.

Essentially, you have 2 options if you want it to "look right" for re-enacting ~ spend a Great Deal of Time and Effort to recreate a period look by researching period and location (English differs from Spanish, Dutch, French) specific drawings and paintings; or spent $$$ up front to buy patterns that have historical research built into them. IMHO ~ if the Simplicity patterns were close enough, more re-enactors Would Be using them, instead of merely debating how to make them "close enough". It makes economic sense.

I sympathize with your dilemma, as I work a mere 6 months of the year at best, and coin is quite tight for myself. I wish you the best in your decision making.

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It all comes down to ... MONEY!

How much you CAN to spend on patterns, books, fabric, etc.

If you can, by all means, get the period patterns. :) But, if you are rather straped for coinage, then obtain the major commercial patterns and do some major alterations. Either way, you are still researching and talking to people.

All that above is great to have, but then again, what's what the Pub is here for... is to network and help out where needed. :)

Do what you CAN do.

The Simplicity pattern is NOT period correct to the GAoP. But if accuracy is not yo'r thing, obtain it. But if you want accurate but if you can't afford the patterns (usually a historical pattern is $16 - $20 each! Ouch!) then, yes, it's a good idea to get the Simplicity and make alterations. Again, there are very knowledgeable people on the Pub whom I'm sure can help you make a more period accurate peice.

Again, do with what you CAN do.

~Lady B

Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!"

"I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed."

The one, the only,... the infamous!

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