naval carriage

[Silver]

i'm getting ready to start work on a 1700 naval carriage, with soild deck. i'm building it to fit the hearn's 1805 swivel gun, it is 30'' long, weigths 90lbs, trunnions are 1 1/4", has a 1 3/4bore(golfball) will fire 2oz. of powder. i was able to get a couple of long pieces of white oak they are 2 1/2" thick, 6" wide and 6' long. i want to cut them to where they are 1 1/4" thick and use it for the cheeks to rest the trunnions in. my question is will it take the recoil at that width?

[Cascabel]

i'm getting ready to start work on a 1700 naval carriage, with soild deck. i'm building it to fit the hearn's 1805 swivel gun, it is 30'' long, weigths 90lbs, trunnions are 1 1/4", has a 1 3/4bore(golfball) will fire 2oz. of powder. i was able to get a couple of long pieces of white oak they are 2 1/2" thick, 6" wide and 6' long. i want to cut them to where they are 1 1/4" thick and use it for the cheeks to rest the trunnions in. my question is will it take the recoil at that width?

Assuming the barrel is properly designed and proportioned, the thickness of the cheeks needs to be about the length of the trunnions. Any thicker than the length of the trunnions does you no good. Any thinner than the trunnion length is likely not going to be strong enough.

>>>> Cascabel

[Silver]

i'm getting ready to start work on a 1700 naval carriage, with soild deck. i'm building it to fit the hearn's 1805 swivel gun, it is 30'' long, weigths 90lbs, trunnions are 1 1/4", has a 1 3/4bore(golfball) will fire 2oz. of powder. i was able to get a couple of long pieces of white oak they are 2 1/2" thick, 6" wide and 6' long. i want to cut them to where they are 1 1/4" thick and use it for the cheeks to rest the trunnions in. my question is will it take the recoil at that width?

Assuming the barrel is properly designed and proportioned, the thickness of the cheeks needs to be about the length of the trunnions. Any thicker than the length of the trunnions does you no good. Any thinner than the trunnion length is likely not going to be strong enough.

>>>> Cascabel

that's good news because that would be a match in wood and trunnion at 1 1/4". i had heard not to go thinner then 2".

[Capt Thighbiter]

Cool, Silver, building a cannon from scratch is very rewarding. I hope your working from plans, as some of the geometry of a carriage is important. like the little 'steps' on the rear of the cheeks - they were there to crowbar the cannon up into the right position to fire after the qoin had been properly set. If they are not just so, they look dopey and out of kilter.

cheek thickness - are you making your own trunion caps? if so the thickness should be OK, but if your buying premade ones ( and Cannon Mania has some Nice bronze ones) the width of the caps should determine your cheek thickness.

You can always over build your carriage, but should never under build it, especially if you plan on fireing live rounds.

[Cascabel]

Cool, Silver, building a cannon from scratch is very rewarding. I hope your working from plans, as some of the geometry of a carriage is important. like the little 'steps' on the rear of the cheeks - they were there to crowbar the cannon up into the right position to fire after the qoin had been properly set. If they are not just so, they look dopey and out of kilter.

And keep in mind also that the location of a couple of the steps is dictated by the location of the bolts that hold the rear axel on. The steps are definitely not for decoration !!

>>>> Cascabel

[Silver]

Cool, Silver, building a cannon from scratch is very rewarding. I hope your working from plans, as some of the geometry of a carriage is important. like the little 'steps' on the rear of the cheeks - they were there to crowbar the cannon up into the right position to fire after the qoin had been properly set. If they are not just so, they look dopey and out of kilter.

cheek thickness - are you making your own trunion caps? if so the thickness should be OK, but if your buying premade ones ( and Cannon Mania has some Nice bronze ones) the width of the caps should determine your cheek thickness.

You can always over build your carriage, but should never under build it, especially if you plan on fireing live rounds.

i made my own plans, though i am doing some adjustment to them now. i had planned on buying the wood for the carriage but a friend gave me these large pieces of oak. so i'm reworking the measurment so i can use it. thickness of the cheeks are my biggest concern now. i would like to fire live rounds from it. plan on making my own trunnion caps. i want the center line of the barrel to set about 21 to 22" off the deck.

[Hawkyns]

Check out Muller's "Treatise of Artillery". Written in 1780, it has a lot of information on carriages, dimensions, and practice. It's what I used when I made the naval carriage for my 2 pounder. Its available from Museum Resoration Services, but most book services have it, too.

Hawkyns

[Matusalem]

Don't know if this helps, period wise, but this baby sits in front of the Portsmouth, R.I. town hall. Not sure but the wheels don't seem real. I posted the following quite from the Tavern forum

Link to Tavern

[HarborMaster]

L. Silver ., I believe a large majority of cannon carriages were actually built for thier given application. For example you may find several examples of say 9 pounders ., however all the carriages would be differant even tho the cannon are all from England and of the same period. A shipwright whom had been commissioned to build the carriages for a given ship would have to consider deck to ceiling height .., along with gun weight and length . Lower deck guns would be bigger and probably have lower and more buffed carriages. Upper deck guns would be a lighter cannon . But perhaps that lighter cannon would be used as a lower deck gun on a smaller ship ., so a carraige change ., and by a builder who doesnt know what another builder did in another city in another country for another ship. Some were on top of the deck and the carriage needed to protrude out of the gun port without being taller than the ships whaling . some had a cut-away in the lower carriage for loading ., some did not. since not all ships were the same ., not all carriages will be the same. There is no standard for a given cannon. then there are sea-coast artillery. If the carriage for a garrison were built for the same cannon as found on a ship ., it too would be built differant. I dont believe 3 shipwrights in Portsmouth would all build the same carriage for the three differant ships coming out of Portsmouth at the same time. Then what about the same cannon but being built for a ship out of Boston? A ship with differant dimensions ?

The Hern Swivel Cannon is patterned after the English 18 and 24 pounders.

Notice the 5 re-enforcement rings in front of the breech.., particularly the 2 immeadiately in front of the trunnion ., a dead give-away for an old english

i want the center line of the barrel to set about 21 to 22" off the deck.

Your probably better off making your own pattern . I believe to scale an 18 or 24 pounder your finished cannon would be lower than your projected height of 21-22 inches. I have several cannon and I can tell you 21-22 is much better for working with than a cannon that is lower. (Especially as I get older) . However to get to this height and have it look great ! Youll have to choose your proportions wisely.

Edited November 19, 2008 by HarborMaster

[Silver]

naval carriage update: found a drawing of a carriage in a rev war book i liked, it was narrow in the front and widen as it went aft also it had a wide wheel base but the cheeks narrowed as it supported the gun. got the graph paper out worked up a drawing then got some cardboard and built a full size mockup made changes here and there and by christmas had a workable plan. had some days off during christmas and new year and have been in the garage aka "ye old cannon shoppe" she isn't done yet but it is taking shape, i have axles, a bed and cheeks. nothing is bolted together yet. i need to make wheels, a stool and quoin and a transome for the forward end under the gun. with no wheels on it it is standing at 21 1/2" tall and it is 24" wide from axle end to axle end, and 28" from bow to stern. have taken pics and will post them when i get a chance. i went with 2" cheeks on it, better to over build then to be sorry later on.

[Joe Pyrat]

This may be of interest. I just bought a copy of Building 18th Century Naval Artillery which describes how bo build a naval carriage in detail.

[Crudbeard]

Don't know if this helps, period wise, but this baby sits in front of the Portsmouth, R.I. town hall. Not sure but the wheels don't seem real. I posted the following quite from the Tavern forum

Link to Tavern

Actually, the wheels are authentic. While this is a naval carriage usually seen onboard, when these were used for land based seacoast defense, the wooden wheels or trucks were replaced with these cast types.