So, yer lookin' to buy a cannon?

[Capt Thighbiter]

I were on E-bay ( as I usualy do) looking for new armament for the Hellion, when I realized that there are loads of cannon being offered there as 'firing' cannon and upon close examination of the pictures, I realized that many are basically desk paperweights and the like, being sold, in error or on purpose, as firing cannon.

For those thinkin upon buying new long guns, be wary.

What to stay away from:

Small Brass barreled cannon with solid cast iron carriage - these are souvenier cannon and are NOT usable

Bronze or Brass barreled guns, known as lantaka, usualy offered from Borneo - these are cheap, badly casted repros. They look like fancy,long swivel guns. Very occasionally I see one that MIGHT be authentic, but who the hell knows.

Cast iron barrels that do not have a steel sleeve.

Fancy antique cannon, with iron webwork carriages - ostensibly from Victorian England - many are modern repros.

Cannon that have thin wall thickness - the bore at the breach end ( the back end) should be one third the diameter of the breach end. ( 1" bore and the breach measures 3")

I am sure Cascabel and others who know BP cannon well can chime in here

While good, safe cannon can be had on E-bay, a safer bet is to patronize one of the many cannon makers listed on this site:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums//index.php/topic,2814.0.html

Cannon are a lot of fun, but when things go bad with them, they go REALLY bad

[Cascabel]

I were on E-bay ( as I usualy do) looking for new armament for the Hellion, when I realized that there are loads of cannon being offered there as 'firing' cannon and upon close examination of the pictures, I realized that many are basically desk paperweights and the like, being sold, in error or on purpose, as firing cannon.

For those thinkin upon buying new long guns, be wary.

What to stay away from:

Small Brass barreled cannon with solid cast iron carriage - these are souvenier cannon and are NOT usable

Bronze or Brass barreled guns, known as lantaka, usualy offered from Borneo - these are cheap, badly casted repros. They look like fancy,long swivel guns. Very occasionally I see one that MIGHT be authentic, but who the hell knows.

Cast iron barrels that do not have a steel sleeve.

Fancy antique cannon, with iron webwork carriages - ostensibly from Victorian England - many are modern repros.

Cannon that have thin wall thickness - the bore at the breach end ( the back end) should be one third the diameter of the breach end. ( 1" bore and the breach measures 3")

I am sure Cascabel and others who know BP cannon well can chime in here

While good, safe cannon can be had on E-bay, a safer bet is to patronize one of the many cannon makers listed on this site:

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums//index.php/topic,2814.0.html

Cannon are a lot of fun, but when things go bad with them, they go REALLY bad

Well said, Shipmate !!! There is truly a lot of pure crap offered on ebay, either by well intentioned but un-informed sellers, or scam artists. Be careful out there !!!

If anyone finds a weapon related item on ebay they are not certain of, feel free to post it here for an honest opinion. I hate to torpedo a guy after he has spent his hard earned money thinking he got something worthwhile. Maybe we can guide our members in the right direction before that happens.....

>>>> Cascabel

[HarborMaster]

Here is a quote from the NSS-A ., North South Skirmish - Association

National Safety Rules and Procedures

For Shooting Muzzleloading Artillery

GENERAL INFORMATION

The following safe shooting procedure presumes the crew is firing blank charges or projectiles with a muzzleloading artillery piece made (or altered) to modem safety standards. (If firing blanks skip Step VII and see Safety Rule 10.) The bore should be lined with seamless steel tubing with a minimum 3/8-inch wall thickness and a yield strength of 85,000 p.s.i. or greater. The breechplug should be threaded and pinned; welded and pinned breechplugs can be equally strong but require expert installation by competent manufacturers. Sand-cored bores are not recommended for shooting. The vent should be drilled in a threaded copper bolt similar to original cannon vent liners of the 1840-1865 period in order to provide an unbroken passage through the casting and the liner, into the bore.

This is for a blank ., not a full service charge . When live firing a lead ball the DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) pipe should be increased to 1/2" . Then threaded then pinned ., then welded. This is essentially your barrel. After this has been done by a competant cannon maker the tube can then be covered by pouring class 30 grey iron over this tube (Hern Foundry) or Bronze .

The minimum 1 caliber rule applies to machined cannon tubes for example milled from a known material 4018 ., 660 naval bronze ., some stainless's ... ect., ect. In which case the seemless dom tubing is no longer necessary as the new cannon is machined from a SOLID ROUND BAR. This being the case would be the safest alternative so far as the machined round bar is seemless and far exceeds 1/2" dom.

The 1 caliber rule is important at the breech where ignition occurs ., the cannon doesnt need to be a caliber thick thru its length ., trunnions or muzzles . Also the trunnion should match the bore in size for live fire events. There is alot of stress on the trunnion when launching lead instantly with fast expanding gas pressures. This is the reason cannon makers do whats called a mill-pocket with a shouldered trunnion tightly fitted to the cheek and square cap for machined cannons. A good example of a tight fitted mount would be a precision fit swivel yoke against the trunnion . It cant fold.

Some of these NSS-A rules may not have been implemented during the building process of your cannon ., that doesnt make it non-firable for blanks. However it does disqualify your gun for sanctioned events (Civil War Re-Enactments) and full service loads for live fire..., without all of these measures the cannon will not pass inspection at an event and therefore would be banned from participation.

The reason for seemless DOM or the preferred machined from solid round bar is because of the blast force sudden impact of the expanding black powder residue gases becoming impregnated into your welded seam. As we all know black powder residue is highly corrosive and will eventually rust thru the welded seam first and damage the pipe (Cannon bore) . Some cannon makers use cheap pipe to save money when they cast competitively low priced cannons when this happens .., you own a bomb. Seemless DOM and Machined cannons do not have this inherit problem. Eventually the welded seam will rust out ., more sooner than later ., especially if it is a fired cannon.

Many people may never face an inspection or live fire at an event ., this doesnt mean cutting corners is O.K.

You may know what you are doing (light loads). However the cannon WILL outlive you and someone else may not know what they are doing. This is why the rules to cannon building are important. We dont want one of our decendants to blow up from Granpas cannon......, its not cool.

Be Safe ., Follow NSS-A procedure "Live to fire another day".

Edited November 19, 2008 by HarborMaster

[Harry]

Well said, HarborMaster. I, too, have seen a number of so-called "firing" cannon on e-Bay and elsewhere. All the cannon I have for pirate purposes have been made by a friend of mine in Key Largo who is one of the few people in the country who manufactures cannon that can be used to fire blanks or "live." He has also made a number of carriages for our 8-inch and 10-inch seacoast cannon at Fort Taylor. We just purchased a sweet bronze tube from him that will be proofed this weekend. I sold another bronze tube for him to a group of investors who thought about buying something on e-Bay until they got in touch with us and we explained the same things that the previous post stated.

[HarborMaster]

Well said, HarborMaster. I, too, have seen a number of so-called "firing" cannon on e-Bay and elsewhere. All the cannon I have for pirate purposes have been made by a friend of mine in Key Largo who is one of the few people in the country who manufactures cannon that can be used to fire blanks or "live." He has also made a number of carriages for our 8-inch and 10-inch seacoast cannon at Fort Taylor. We just purchased a sweet bronze tube from him that will be proofed this weekend. I sold another bronze tube for him to a group of investors who thought about buying something on e-Bay until they got in touch with us and we explained the same things that the previous post stated.

Harry I purchased a beautiful bronze thundermug from a man in Florida about 3 1/2 years ago. I'll bet it was the same man. Its heavy duty and provides a great signal from a 1"bore.

Edited November 22, 2008 by HarborMaster

[Crudbeard]

One interesting point from the excellent advice Capn. Thighbiter gives, and which I also wholeheartedly agree with, is the Victorian webwork looking carriages mentioned. Actually they are not quite so young as the Victorian age but were manufactured as garrison carriages somewhat earlier in the 19th century than the Victorian age. Made from 1810 or so until the 1860s, the idea was to replace the wooden construction with something that would be more permanent for fixed artillery in forts, and they hold many cannon in parks today, with most folks assuming like I did that the webwork carriage was a much later way of displaying the gun. But no, these were working carriages.

[michaelsbagley]

LOOK HERE on this other forum, someone is selling a small canon for $1000... As I understand it, that is a pretty good deal...

This is the orignial thread where he was asking $1200 for it

Edited January 29, 2009 by michaelsbagley

[Capt Thighbiter]

LOOK HERE on this other forum, someone is selling a small canon for $1000... As I understand it, that is a pretty good deal...

This is the orignial thread where he was asking $1200 for it

Nice looking carriage ( though not Naval). The ad says it's a turned barrel, so that means the trunnions are attached in one of the ways discussed under the topic "Trunnions".

[Graydog]

Speaking of swivel guns, while Wild Imports is now defunct. They have been replaced by Lone Star Artillery as the US distributor for Osvaldo Gatto’s cannon made in Argentina. I have the swivel gun from Mr. Gatto and I am exceptionally pleased with it (Note- I got it through the defunct Wild Imports).

Here’s the link for Lone Star (I have not done business with them, other than to verify they are the new distributor.)

Lone Star Artillery

And here is the link to Osvaldo Gatto in Argentina (He did not want to deal directly with me when I contacted him.)

Osvaldo Gatto Cannon Site

[Commodore Swab]

For those of you wondering the Viceroy is now here, he just created an account. You have refered to him in a few of your posts about "the man in FL"

And yes the cannon I was selling for 1200 (not the one mentioned above) is one that we cast together

[Crudbeard]

For those of you wondering the Viceroy is now here, he just created an account. You have refered to him in a few of your posts about "the man in FL"

And yes the cannon I was selling for 1200 (not the one mentioned above) is one that we cast together

Excellent ta have tha Viceroy aboard! Wot we needs is more Vice.

Crudbeard

[RustyNell]

VICE...VICE.... VICE....VIIIIICCCCCEE!!

oh sorry.... got carried away, always happy to cheer on me mates Vice's - its why i love ya all

Glad you're both here, Crudbeard, you and Bloodthirsty - kisses to you both XOXOX

and so happy to see Lawrence here as well --- oh VICEROY!!!!

Edited April 21, 2009 by RustyNell