Converting a suit jacket to short coat

[Black Hearted Pearl]

Dear friends,

I am in need of your expertise and opinions. I have 3 weeks to get ready for an event where I will (hopefully) portray someone from the 19th century Royal Navy.

What I am in assistance of, mainly due to cash flow, is how to convert a men's suit jacket of Navy blue into a short jacket like this picture posted below.

Any assistance provided is greatly appreciated.

[Matty Bottles]

I've never done it - but I have thought about it. And I think you could shorten the coat, use the stuff you take off the bottom to make the cuffs, re-shape the lapel (most men's jackets don't have facing fabric on the underside of the collar - you could use some of the stuff you took of the bottom for that, too) and redo the buttons and button holes on the front. The collar will stand up fairly easily if you experiment with the iron. I would recommend getting a good image of the collar/lapels you want, before you remove any material.

[Merrydeath]

I found a short one at Target for a small sum, not quite the same and the lining is green but it works. Not sure they still have any...

good luck Pearl!

[Matty Bottles]

In my experience, Goodwill is chock-filled with blue blazers.

[lady constance]

Dear Black Hearted Pearl,

i HAVE done this to many a jacket, dress, etc.......

YOU CAN DO IT!!

what sewing skills have you? { detmination and puzzle thinking abilities are the only skills needed- along with a sewing machine!

check the seams very well... ALWAYS buy a LARGER size { although coats present more effort to take in.. the extra size gives you more same fabric to use for making thegarment as you wish it to be---

ALWAYS buy a LONGER article of clothing as it gives you more fabric for extra pieces and accessories....

my latest piece was to buy a womans jacket size 2 and chop sleeves shorter and use the extra fabric for pocket flaps and larger cuffs for the sleeves for our 5 year old who just had to have a pirates jacket---

although it was velvet, it looks like wool from about 3 feet....my son was delighted and my husband said it could not be done... all the more reason to prove that it can be!! and to do it! { he knows what motivates me-- just tell me i can't do it!} WANNA PICTURE? i shall make my husband figure out how to do that! { my revenge}.......

be more specific as to what you are working with...and i will try to give you more specific recommendations....

my advice would be to buy a LONG WOOL coat..... then there is plenty to chop off and work with.... by long i mean at least HIP length !! so you can add your details... even a wool pea coat can be chopped ...

needless to say, i can go on and on.. but i give words frivolously without know what you are working with.... or trying to...

pax

lady constance

[Matty Bottles]

Hey, how is this project going, anyway?

[Commodore Swab]

Any updates?

[gunner Gordon]

remembering that most jackets etc. from this time period had all the edges left raw, I have altered a few coats by using overcoats or 3/4 lenght coats slightly too big. the extra material is used for the cuffs, pocket flaps ,what have you. use a good quality wool garment that willnot fray with raw edges exposed. simply put, put the jacket on and use a chalk pencil to "draw" the outer seems where they fit your body, top stitch then cut to the edge. Like I said ,this is very simply put and you need to have an understanding of your body type to do it. It is easier to do a waistcoat, we've all seen the possibilities in a suit jacket. use the sleeves for the pocket flaps and other details. I am doing a waistcoat and a jacket for Black Hearted Pearl now using this method, if I don't blow it she might allow pics of the finished product.

remembering that most jackets etc. from this time period had all the edges left raw, I have altered a few coats by using overcoats or 3/4 lenght coats slightly too big. the extra material is used for the cuffs, pocket flaps ,what have you. use a good quality wool garment that willnot fray with raw edges exposed. simply put, put the jacket on and use a chalk pencil to "draw" the outer seems where they fit your body, top stitch then cut to the edge. Like I said ,this is very simply put and you need to have an understanding of your body type to do it. It is easier to do a waistcoat, we've all seen the possibilities in a suit jacket. use the sleeves for the pocket flaps and other details. I am doing a waistcoat and a jacket for Black Hearted Pearl now using this method, if I don't blow it she might allow pics of the finished product.

[Silkie McDonough]

remembering that most jackets etc. from this time period had all the edges left raw,

I'm not the one to pose this question but I am also not the one to research it either ...have you doccumentation to support this statement? Would you kindly share it?

[Tartan Jack]

Anything can be altered, it depends on how "accurate" a final result can be made from your original bought MODERN cut garment.

I have altered many "Saxon" jackets into "cut away" or end-at-waist kilt jackets. I wanted the more modern shoulders and so forth.

The issue COULD be shoulder structure and lapel shapes.

Look behind the lapels and under the collar, seeing the material, as well as if a re-pressing would be enough to turn the tuned lapels into the top part of a closed jacket. Some work great, some look AWFUL.

Also, note the cuff finish. How close or now "off" is it? You will have material to "sheath" a new one, but is the core completely off?

Also, consider the modern lower pockets, which will need to be re-topped (different covers), sewn shut and hidden with embroidery, or BE the line for cutting the jacket to length (the determinate factor in a waist-length tweed jacket I once made, nearly a decade ago).

The lapels, shoulders, lower outside pockets, and cuffs are dead-give-a-ways for one done badly.

I'd look for a "lightly constructed" shoulder. with simple lapels that look like a "normal" full-buttoned coat when closed. That would be the simplest cut and least structured one you can find.

Before I cut ANYTHING or went to a thrift store, I would look long and hard at many shots of GAoP jackets like you want to imitate and print the lost likely examples. Have those prints on hand at the store when looking at jackets. Most there are "lost causes" in trying to replicate GAoP jackets (but can be altered into something else), so limit your options to only those that already look 80-90% "there" . . . they are more like 2/3 done and will be a LOT more work than they seem.

[Tartan Jack]

remembering that most jackets etc. from this time period had all the edges left raw,

I'm not the one to pose this question but I am also not the one to research it either ...have you doccumentation to support this statement? Would you kindly share it?

Thinking the same thing . . .

SOURCE?

This IS Captain Twill, not other parts if the pub.

Underpants tend to be wound FAR tighter in here than elsewhere

(That's why I'm in the kilt . . . no undies to wind . . . Otherwise mine would be unbearable!)

[Capt. Sterling]

Clarifying the jacket statement above... wool fabrics were manufactured well enough that during the 17th through 19th centuries, good woollens could often be left without hemming the raw edges which would not unravel (or which took a lot of wear and tear before they started to fray)... I actually have one good reproduction coat, with rather expensive wool that can support a raw edge even today..and a splendid Life Guards Topcoat from the late 19th century that has raw edges...so it is a practice that continued for quite some time..(I would even hazard to guess that the English are still producing wool good enough to leave garments unhemmed). from looking at various garments through out these time frames, one can see raw edges on woollens as opposed to silks and linens, where raw edges were turned in/under/over and hemmed. I can post some pictures when I get home from work that may show raw edges which appears to be a rather common practice for construction even on more expensive garments. I believe one can even see the raw edges on James II's wedding coat that is at the V&A... many fashion history books speak about this practice, so to look from one particular source should actually be quite simple... off the top of my head, I'd say Waugh and Hart's Fashion in Detail.... but there are also a number of photographs of original pieces that will support this as well....

Will look up the description of the Manchester coat, but I believe that says raw edges as well....and perhaps Foxe can post a picture he has of an embroidered pocket from the Stirling (?)which I don't have in front of me right now... as many times, pockets were treated like the rest of the garment as far as being left with raw edges or hemmed...

Edited May 19, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[Tartan Jack]

Thanks.

I suspected as much based on working with thicker felted wool, but haven't noticed period-proof. I haven't examined period garments up close and personal. All the ones around here are kept well away from "tourists."

My favorite blankets (plaids, using the Gaelic term) are simply cut or ripped wool yardage, left alone on the edge. None of the thicker non-worsted ones have unraveled to any meaningful extent.

Worsted wool is a different animal, as it will unravel 1/4 inch or so and then pretty much quit. It's threads/yards operate different than other wools.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Tartan Jack

[gunner Gordon]

remembering that most jackets etc. from this time period had all the edges left raw,

I'm not the one to pose this question but I am also not the one to research it either ...have you doccumentation to support this statement? Would you kindly share it?

I believe a lot of mass producers of clothing don't dwell on this point because it means using more authentic fabrics however the best way to understand it from the written sourcr is to look at pics from museum collections and note the edges, pocket flaps etc., especially military uniforms as they best represent the construction method of otherwise non existant clothing that no one bothered to preserve. I have a few yards of the red wool used to make the British guards tunics ,it is so tightly woven that you can't hemm or turn it under. take a look at a modern day pic at Buckingham Palace, the bottom edges of the tunics are still left unhemmed, also the long gray wool overcoats and their capes are unhemmed. Today we think of this type of wool as melton wool and very expensive, then it was the norm.

[gunner Gordon]

Thanks.

I suspected as much based on working with thicker felted wool, but haven't noticed period-proof. I haven't examined period garments up close and personal. All the ones around here are kept well away from "tourists."

My favorite blankets (plaids, using the Gaelic term) are simply cut or ripped wool yardage, left alone on the edge. None of the thicker non-worsted ones have unraveled to any meaningful extent.

Worsted wool is a different animal, as it will unravel 1/4 inch or so and then pretty much quit. It's threads/yards operate different than other wools.

I was very fortunate a few years ago and was turned loose at the museums in Aberdeen , Scotland and at the Fort George museum in Inverness Scotland where I was allowed to hold and closly examine these garments, even better I was allowed the same with damaged garments that are used to observe the construction methods. There was obviously no radio or TV at that time or this stuff couldn't have been made, it must have taken so long.

[Tartan Jack]

Today we think of this type of wool as melton wool and very expensive, then it was the norm.

I have bought my wool from 96 District Storehouse for well over a decade (back when it was part of 96 District Fabrics). They have a store in Abbeville, SC, 45 minutes from me, but Peggy and Dennis Earp travel to many reenactment events around the US, esp. Revolution and American Civil War.

One reason: wool is VERY hard to find "off-the-rack" is South Carolina.

Main reason: Their wools are high quality, thick, properly made, and relatively cheap for what you get. Most are $10-$15/yard, with some of the tartan/plaid ones a bit higher, but very rarely over $20/yard. I buy on-site, to feel the weave, hand, and thickness, as well as the colors and hues.

That is where my wool-experience comes from.

[gunner Gordon]

Today we think of this type of wool as melton wool and very expensive, then it was the norm.

I have bought my wool from 96 District Storehouse for well over a decade (back when it was part of 96 District Fabrics). They have a store in Abbeville, SC, 45 minutes from me, but Peggy and Dennis Earp travel to many reenactment events around the US, esp. Revolution and American Civil War.

One reason: wool is VERY hard to find "off-the-rack" is South Carolina.

Main reason: Their wools are high quality, thick, properly made, and relatively cheap for what you get. Most are $10-$15/yard, with some of the tartan/plaid ones a bit higher, but very rarely over $20/yard. I buy on-site, to feel the weave, hand, and thickness, as well as the colors and hues.

That is where my wool-experience comes from.

The wool that our kilts are made of is a looser weave and somewhat coarseer than the wool the jackets etc. are made of,and do not normally leand themselvs to the raw edge construction (military kilts) the wools I find that arec affordable are at yardage store sales in the springtime, these wools are normally in the 25 to 80 dollar a yard range and can be found in every thickness, but usually in a coat wieght. The best example of the difference in the quality of material I can think of is to go to a military surplus store and compare by sight and touch the difference between an older US Navy pea coat and a new one not made for a military contract ,you can tell which is which by the price, the used navy issue jackety is more expensive than the new non-issue jacket, you get what you pay for in fabric.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

Hey, how is this project going, anyway?

Easy enough. I just used one from gunner Gordon's kit. (Pirate)

[gunner Gordon]

Hey, how is this project going, anyway?

Easy enough. I just used one from gunner Gordon's kit. (Pirate)

yeah, like I'll ever get that one back . Looks better on you anyway!

[Tartan Jack]

Today we think of this type of wool as melton wool and very expensive, then it was the norm.

I have bought my wool from 96 District Storehouse for well over a decade (back when it was part of 96 District Fabrics). They have a store in Abbeville, SC, 45 minutes from me, but Peggy and Dennis Earp travel to many reenactment events around the US, esp. Revolution and American Civil War.

One reason: wool is VERY hard to find "off-the-rack" is South Carolina.

Main reason: Their wools are high quality, thick, properly made, and relatively cheap for what you get. Most are $10-$15/yard, with some of the tartan/plaid ones a bit higher, but very rarely over $20/yard. I buy on-site, to feel the weave, hand, and thickness, as well as the colors and hues.

That is where my wool-experience comes from.

The wool that our kilts are made of is a looser weave and somewhat coarseer than the wool the jackets etc. are made of,and do not normally leand themselvs to the raw edge construction (military kilts) the wools I find that arec affordable are at yardage store sales in the springtime, these wools are normally in the 25 to 80 dollar a yard range and can be found in every thickness, but usually in a coat wieght. The best example of the difference in the quality of material I can think of is to go to a military surplus store and compare by sight and touch the difference between an older US Navy pea coat and a new one not made for a military contract ,you can tell which is which by the price, the used navy issue jackety is more expensive than the new non-issue jacket, you get what you pay for in fabric.

Yep.

Worsted wool used for kilts is a completely different form of material (while also being wool) than other wools. 96 District Storehouse sells the kind used for jackets, blankets, and reenactment gear, rather than ideal for kilts (heavy worsted tartan). They are reenactors, mostly French-Indian War though American Civil War, and at many events selling material. They are gone a good chunk of the year at events.

It is IDEAL wool for reenactment clothing! I have lots yardage and want more. They also sell cotton, muslin, linen, silk, and many other ideal reenactment material. I know what I am talking about. I highly recommend them.

I have several types of wool, numerous kinds. I have some ideal for flags, others for kilts, others for belted plaids, and others for heavy coats, and some great for heavy, heavy blankets (one is about 30-40oz, melton, with a nice fuzzy hand, and THICK- it is my main blanket).

Also: In South Carolina, VERY little wool is sold at normal fabric stores. It just isn't popular, like in other parts of the US. The winters are cold enough for long enough. I always keep an eye out for what I can find.

[gunner Gordon]

If I'm not mistaken Tartan Jack, didn't the Scots from your area of the colonies have kilted militia as late as the Rev war? I wonder if this ties into some of the kilt questions on other topics. How about the traditional short jackets that the Scots and seafarers favored so much?, any info from the Carolinas?

[Dutchman]

"and a splendid Life Guards Topcoat from the late 19th century that has raw edges"

oi sterling tis great you hang onto momentos from yer youth

[Capt. Sterling]

Aye tis indeed...

[Tartan Jack]

If I'm not mistaken Tartan Jack, didn't the Scots from your area of the colonies have kilted militia as late as the Rev war? I wonder if this ties into some of the kilt questions on other topics. How about the traditional short jackets that the Scots and seafarers favored so much?, any info from the Carolinas?

There were highlanders in Darien, Georgia and the Cape Fear area of North Carolina. In both, something like kilts were known (belted plaids and "philabegs"). I've heard LOTS of stories of "kilted" folks living in Western NC, but haven't proven any.

Oh and as kilts as we know them didn't come into being until the late 1700s, I use the term as a "blanket" (pun intended-> "Plaid" lit. means "blanket") term for belted plaids through modern kilts. I've heard many arguments as to whether "kilt" should apply to belted plaids.

Kilts were worn and have been preserved in the Carolinas for a long time, by immigrants from Scotland, ex-Highland soldiers, and the like.

Also, in the American Revolution, Highlander units served the British Army, "kilted."

There was a Union unit that wore kilts, but no proof has been unearthed of them worn in combat.

Also, there are stories of a CSA kilted unit, but I have seen NO period proof that one actually existed.

I am of Scottish descent and very interested in Scottish history, as well as GAoPirate stuff too. As the Jacobite rebellions overlap the GAoP, connections interest me.

Mostly, I look at them as 2 separate things historically, trying not to force anything or see things that weren't there historically.

Like piracy, there are TONS of legends about Scotsman and Highlanders. Many aren't true, some are.

I comment on it here, as I have converted "saxon" suits to "kilt kit," which is helpful to the issue at hand.

The other threads are b/c so many people on were are also interested in Scottish stuff, which I know well (and am part of several Scottish/Kilt groups).

[Tartan Jack]

How about the traditional short jackets that the Scots and seafarers favored so much?

The jackets of Highlanders and that of sailors are practically identical.

The "seaman" jacket patterns are often based on Scottish bog finds, Kass used three of them, one of which has no pants at all (only a fragment of what MAY have been a belted plaid).

The bog-found-jackets match the illustrations to-a-T.