Heath Ledger found Dead...

[hurricane]

I don't really care that anyone will or will not greive for my sorry ass.  I'll be dead, so who cares!

Bo

That is an act of selfishness, for it shows that one does not care about the feelings, the grief, of those who must go on without you. To love is to be loved. I know all too well, having a friend whose wife preceded him unexpectedly in death. I know for a fact that she would and does care deeply that the love of her life is grieving and that he has a loss that nothing can repair... not time, not money, not another's love. She would have traded her own life in an instant if she could have spared him that grief.

You may not care. And maybe those you know don't care. Sad, isn't it, that others wouldn't care about your loss. Such a sorry state of affairs. For you might as well not have been here to begin with.

I would much rather be one who is remembered rather than one who is easily forgotten and dismissed as being unimportant in this world. The latter is death within life.

- Hurricane

[Iron Bess]

Truely well worded mate....

Let me buy you the bottle.

[Misson]

Grief is a lesson. As with all life lessons, if you do not learn them, you usually wind up repeating them. Perhaps your friend should be happy for the time he was with the woman rather than focusing on her absence - and more specifically, his perceived loss. (Which, in some ways, is quite selfish on his part.) True, grieving is part of loss, but if you let that define the rest of your life, you are not learning and you (and typically others) suffer as a result.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_resilience

[Iron Bess]

You don't learn everything "words" mate...

To be human is to learn from what you also feel. And my feelings are not like yours. Or anyone else’s. It’s what makes us individuals and gives us our identities.

My own jolly Rob died 30 years ago this year. I grieved and in my way still grieve for him. I still miss him. True, not in the way I did directly afterwards.... but I miss him (The scoundrel) So…. I’m selfish? It sounds perhaps that you worry about having to deal with someone else’s emotion or grief and that would be a burden and problem for you. (Shrug) You simply want them to move on so you’re not bothered with it? And I mean no disrespect with that… I am just asking.

And I wouldn't surrender one moment of my unhappiness over Rob to live the life that you propose where everything be dismissed as a lesson and then moved aside for the next.

Boring.

Lifeless.

Tedious

Monotonous

I for one could never live a life of apathy towards my fellow Souls who, like m’self are just on their journey.

Naw, I’ll continue to feel badly for those who die whatever the reason. I’ll feel grieved at the loss of any of you. And when I die I won’t expect you to post anything to a thread about the telling of it. And I won’t take offence.

I’ll understand it’s just that you’re not out of school yet.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Hurricane, I have seen more than my share of death. If you think I am being selfish, that is your priveledge partner. But what of the selfishness of those who choose to live the high-life and die from it? What of his little daughter he left behind? How would you tell that child when she asks what happened to her daddy? It isn't that i don't care. I'm going through hell to ecome a teacher for chrissakes! I just cannot get over the outpouring of grief when someone causes their own demise, and noone gives a shit about those who are the victims of our apathetic society. Notice if you will that no-one has yet to respond to my post about the 23 month old baby thrown to his death. There are too many stories like this today, but all focus is on this one asshole that went selfish to pursue his carreer and left a baby to be cared for by someone else. In biology we call that a social parasite. Just yesterday I read in the paper a full two pages on that English singer Amy Winehouse and how she is tearing her life apart. Notice SHE is making bad choices, and we are supposed to feel sorry for that? Bullshit. The story of the toddler that was murdere got a one inch by 1 1/4 inch spot. Bullshit.

I have no sympathy for anyone who creates their own dilemna.

P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y !!!

Bo

[Iron Bess]

And therein lies the beauty of this little harbor of ours.

You do not have to feel for them. Nope, not one bit.

And those of us who do feel badly for them can also continue to do so.

Everyone is free to think as they will and discuss and express it.

No one has to change their mindset or personal values. Everyone is free to judge by theri personal priorities and covictions.

And those whosoever wish to view this in a differnt life can do so.

The rum tastes the same to all of us...

Except for m'self of course becasue I drink Mai Tai/s

[Red Maria]

Hurricane, I have seen more than my share of death. If you think I am being selfish, that is your priveledge partner. But what of the selfishness of those who choose to live the high-life and die from it? What of his little daughter he left behind? own dilemna.

P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y !!!

Bo

You know I think you're making a lot of speculations about a person and a situation you know very little of. Toxology reports have not come back yet. This man made it very well known he wasn't sleeping well and was taking perscription medicnie. He said so during interviews. He was not trying to hide a problem. It is also known he was not in the best of health due to working long hours in freezing conditions while filmimg

and possibly had walking pneumonia.

Not everyone in the Entertainment Industry is into exsessive behaviour. There are many hard working actors even young and sucessful ones. Heath Ledger never struck me as the party animal type. Quiet the opposite. Nor did strike me as someone who was irresopnible or would abandone those he loved. That's one of the reasons he death is shock to me. No I didn't know him but I do observe people and watch how they behave. He was not a reckless person.

[Misson]

My own jolly Rob died 30 years ago this year. I grieved and in my way still grieve for him.  I still miss him. True, not in the way I did directly afterwards.... but I miss him (The scoundrel) So…. I’m selfish?

I never said you were selfish. I don't know you other than from here.

However, holding on to grief for someone like some great burden that must be carried seems every bit as selfish as saying you won't care what happens when you're gone. (Except one person is gone and the other, as I understood the statements made previously, lingers about in a sort of half-life desiring something that is impossible. "This has been taken from me and my life is forever altered and ruined and nothing will ever fix that." That suggests to me that this person won't let anything or anyone help - which seems pretty selfish. On top of all that, this is a psychologically unhealthy behavior. It is certainly not a romantic one as we are often led to believe.

It sounds perhaps that you worry about having to deal with someone else’s emotion or grief and that would be a burden and problem for you. (Shrug) You simply want them to move on so you’re not bothered with it? And I mean no disrespect with that… I am just asking.

In fact, there is no way for me to deal with someone's grief. Grief is a feeling. A feeling is a response or reaction to a thought. Thoughts are in each person's head. If said person wants to change their thoughts they are the only ones that can do so. They must deal with their own grief.

And I wouldn't surrender one moment of my unhappiness over Rob to live the life that you propose where everything be dismissed as a lesson and then moved aside for the next. 

I never asked you to.

I for one could never live a life of apathy towards my fellow Souls who, like m’self are just on their journey.

Apathy? From my experience with the grief process, I can tell you that most of what others said had little impact on the process. It was a learning and growing process for me. But then, I find sympathy maudlin and even voyeuristic. Empathy is at least somewhat more palatable, but I've learned that I'm better off processing such things for myself - see my previous comments dealing with grief. Since I want this for myself, I give others that luxury as well. Which I perceive as being unselfish.

I’ll understand it’s just that you’re not out of school yet.

It has taken years of reflection and reading to come to where I am on this topic. I used to fear death (of myself and of others). Now I do not. I think I have grown as a result. Your learning experience will be different than mine.

I perceive being hung-up on someone else's death as fearing something. Fear is often the antithesis of growth; it certainly stunts growth. Learning banishes fear. So on this topic, either the person who cannot move on is afraid to do so for some reason or they fear that the person gone is somehow worse off for their leaving. (I may be missing other possibilities here.) Note that missing someone is different than not being able to let go of their death and move forward. Sure, I occasionally miss people who are gone, but at that point, I try to remember who they were and how they added to my life when they were here rather than indulging in grief over what is now missing.

I don't mean any of this personally, nor am I saying it directly applies to your situation. I don't know your situation. We hadn't even been talking of it before. I'm explaining what I've learned.

I do believe deeply that if you're not learning, you're not growing and if you not growing, you're dying (metaphysically speaking).

[Lady Alyx]

Was all that debate really called for...Really. Grieve if you want to, don't if you don't want to period. But chastizing us that do is just well ...just lame.

Iron Bess is correct to each is own...end of debate.

[Christine]

Was all that debate really called for...Really. Grieve if you want to, don't if you don't want to period. But chastizing us that do is just well ...just lame.

Iron Bess is correct to each is own...end of debate.

I agree, it's really stupid this debate has gone on this long!

[Iron Bess]

I perceive being hung-up on someone else's death as fearing something. Fear is often the antithesis of growth; it certainly stunts growth. Learning banishes fear.

Hmmm.... not sure the process of mourning is a hang up.

And all learning does not banish fear. That is a generality that does not apply to everyone or every topic...

This is not about anyone being right OR wrong. Will you all read that please?... it is NOT about anyone being right or wrong about this issue. It's a sharing of ideas. Lower your voices please.

And yet again.... (Thank you ladies, good to see someone is reading the meaning of what I’m posting…) and I say again to each his own. I don’t take your opinions personally Mission because I agree with so little of what you have to say.

So what?

No harm done.

I will continue to feel for those who die and others can continue to do as they like.

(Shrug) Besides, if this conversation had not been continued and talked about…. I would have had Ledger and his sorry state out of my mind some days ago.

Yes, to each his own.

[Misson]

I perceive being hung-up on someone else's death as fearing something. Fear is often the antithesis of growth; it certainly stunts growth. Learning banishes fear.

Hmmm.... not sure the process of mourning is a hang up.

It isn't, but it can become one.

And all learning does not banish fear. That is a generality that does not apply to everyone or every topic...

Excellent point. I didn't exactly say that in my statement, but you're quite right. Some learning produces fear. Curiously, psychologists believe that all fears are learned except the fear of falling and the fear of loud noises.

This is not about anyone being right OR wrong. Will you all read that please?... it is NOT about anyone being right or wrong about this issue. It's a sharing of ideas. Lower your voices please.

And yet again.... (Thank you ladies, good to see someone is reading the meaning of what I’m posting…) and I say again to each his own. I don’t take your opinions personally Mission because I agree with so little of what you have to say.

Which is why I think I've liked you since the beginning of my arrival here. (I don't think there's many qualities better in people than independence of mind.)

[Iron Bess]

(I don't think there's many qualities better in people than independence of mind.)

Unless it's someone more willing then others to buy the drinks.

[blackjohn]

It all boils down to who is in your Monkeysphere!

ps - rated at least pg-13 for language

[Red-Handed Jill]

Hmmm.... I'll try to avoid psychological ruminations about my feelings on the subject, but I'd mainly say my reaction has been extreme surprise. There are all sorts of well-known celebrities who are making an absolute mess of their lives; quite frankly, I expected that one of their names would be in that headline. The fact that it was Heath Ledger came as a complete shock.

I am acquainted with someone who has worked with him and by accounts, he was a very decent guy and a hard worker. And remember, he lived his life in a goldfish bowl - the price of a profession that is so public. How many of our own lives would hold up to that close a scrutiny? I admit that parts of my own past would not.

At any rate, the bottom line for me is I enjoyed watching his movies and I do think it's a pity that we won't get to see he and his career mature.