Heath Ledger found Dead...

[Patrick Hand]

Just a bad question.....

When you or I die, is there going to be this out pouring of such sadness and grief?

Heck... we're just no-bodies..... Heath Ledger was some god or something ?

Sorry, he was just some well paid guy doing his job.... and no I don't wanna hear when your orthodontest dies......

"OH how heartless..... " far out....cool ... when the Borg get me, I want an opera.......

I just get so stinking tired of hearing about stupid dead rich people.......

[blackjohn]

It gives us something safe to talk about other than the weather.

[Misson]

I was under the impression that it was a reimagining of the story, not antecedents to the existing ones.

See, that's just lazy on the part of Hollywood writers. Bleh. As good as the last Bond flick was, that was the one fly in the ointment for me. How could the events in that film possibly mesh with, say, Dr. No? (They can't. Lazy.) I wish they would have started the Bond films in the 50s like they were talking about at one point. That would have been cool IMO. Then everything would mesh. (Then they could have made Diamonds are Forever the way it should have been made - like the book.)

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

People create their own problems, but don't learn to deal with them. Funny that in a nation with a "War on Drugs" the first thing today's physicians do is ... give us drugs! FOR EVERYTHING!!! History repeats itself once again. How many "celbreties" have gone out this way? They don't learn from the mistakes of others, but mimick them instead. Drug cocktails. No sympathy from here. "Poor little rich kid"... indeed!

Bo

[Misson]

Just a bad question.....

When you or I die, is there going to be this out pouring  of such sadness and grief?

Heck... we're just no-bodies..... Heath Ledger was some god or something ?

Sorry, he was just some well paid guy doing his job.... and no I don't wanna hear when your orthodontest dies......

"OH how heartless..... " far out....cool ... when the Borg get me, I want an opera.......

I just get so stinking tired of hearing about stupid dead rich people.......

I saw an editorial cartoon to that effect. It showed three soldiers' gravesites which were talking (either metaphorically or metaphysically) about how sad it was that Ledger had died. (I personally don't quite get it either, Patrick. I never knew him. I'm afraid I'd be more upset if my cat died.) But blackjohn's right - it's a good topic for people to emote about in here. Not to mention a chance to dissect movies. I like that.

[Lady Alyx]

Mission and Patrick, at least you can give a hand to him, since you do know of him, because he was in the public's view. They say of him he was an actor's actor. I have to give him credit for that. I enjoyed him immensely in Casanova. I didn't even know it was him in "10 things I hate about you", but I thought he was just a doll. Perhaps it's because I am a woman and view him differently. I don't know, all I can think about is poor babie.

From the start of that horrid war they started I have been mourning all the losses. I have cried for them as well, and every time I hear more anouncements I think and cry of those poor babies as well.

[Iron Bess]

“Every man’s death diminishes me…”

I don’t care who it is.

Famous or plain as a paper napkin.

Will you all grieve when I am gone?

[Ransom]

I think it's kinda interesting that the main issue with Heath Ledger for those who resent all the hoopla over his death, is the fact he had money. So what? He came from common stock, same as all of us, worked hard, had talent, and was paid a small percentange of what the studios made off him. In that industry there is a huge amount of pressure to do well, to make each movie better than the last one, or run the risk of losing your whole career. Some handle that stress better than others. Until we walk in those shoes, who are we to malign a guy who accidentally overdosed himself? Show a little compassion here.

And the sadness of his death doesn't take anything away from the appalling sadness and waste of the thousands killed in the wars — any and all wars. If everyone were to dwell on all that death, maybe we'd think twice before sending any more boys out to die.

[Duchess]

I'm with Mission and Patrick on this one. He's famous so we're expected to care. I've no sympathies for suicides accidental or intentional. I liked some of his movies, some I didn't. Is the world a worse place now that hes gone? No. Its no more influenced than when that woman died on the freeway or that guy was killed by malpractice.

ps. this is offically not a gender issue.

[Misson]

I think it's kinda interesting that the main issue with Heath Ledger for those who resent all the hoopla over his death, is the fact he had money.

It is? I for one am always glad to see people succeed (in whatever way they define success - money can be one indicator of such.) It's just that I'm not very concerned that someone who has little impact on my life has shuffled their mortal coil. (In many societies and belief systems, this is cause for celebration.)

Bess, I would miss you more than Heath. For the record, I would also be more concerned to hear of the passing of Patrick's or Duchess' cat(s). These things affect me (or at least people I know and like) and Heath...well, he just don't. To me, he's just this guy, see...I think the only movie I've seen with him in it were The Patriot (which was decent) and The Brothers Grimm (which wasn't).

I also don't understand the meaning of "Every man's death diminishes me." I've turned it over in my wee small noggin in several different ways and it doesn't make sense to me. Death is just part of life. Feel free to explain what I'm missing here, as I like to be corrected when I am wrong.

As ol' Doc Seuss put it: " Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." (Er, it=life, not death. That would just be morbid.)

[Red Maria]

“Every man’s death diminishes me…”

John Donne Meditation 17 which goes on to say

"because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee"

[Lady Alyx]

Rented "The Brother's Grimm", it was a bit strange, but after viewing it a couple of times, it seemed a bit better. Terry Gilliam at play here on this movie. Have not seen "The Patriot" yet, will rent that next.

[Iron Bess]

Well... Okay, let's try this.

Which death effects us most. Ledgers accidental death or the death of a child that has starved to death either in this country or in Darfur?

I think you may see it's simply a matter of opinions here.

[Misson]

“Every man’s death diminishes me…”

"because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee"

Which makes it no clearer for me.

It's focused in the wrong direction. We are all scheduled for an end date, so worrying about that is pointless. Seeing others die and spending our current moments in upset over that is also pointless. In remembering people who were important to me, it seems more productive to focus the actuality of what they did rather than being upset over non-possible possibilities of what they didn't (or can't).

Yes, someone close to me has died. Thinking rationally on it, however, I see it as a learning experience for me on letting go - which we all must do...repeatedly. Wasting time thinking about what I missed turned out to be a useless and harrowing exercise, so I discard it. This is my disagreement with the original sentiment. (John Donne was a poet. For the life of me, I don't understand the point of poetry, as I've said before. It's whole purpose ultimately ends up being to obscure meaning. But I digress...)

[Iron Bess]

(Shrug) Then, it’s not a matter of being judgmental with one another (those of us here at the Pub involved with this thread…) It’s simply a matter of our individual perspective.

Some are more sympathetic then others. Perhaps it’s about the value of a human life? I’m not sure anyone can judge though if the person was not known to them but gage it simply on the hearsay of the press or innuendo.

As is the norm, we are all free to express our thoughts on matters great and small.

I, for m’self am sorry Heath Ledger is dead. I’m sorry for his family and his little girl. He was a son, friend and a father. I see his life as having value whether or not he was rich, foolish, over rated, wasted, arrogant, simplistic or just lucky.

Just the same way I value all of you.

[Jacky Tar]

Will you all grieve when I am gone?   

I fer one will grieve, fer I hav had the pleasure o' knowin' ye.

I suppose it is easier fer us t' grieve fer those we know, or know 'bout; tis' much harder t' grieve fer those we do not know (I suppose that's why some people desperately try t' bring some horrible events, like those in Darfur, t' our attention).

Aye Patrick, I would grieve if ye pass 'fore me, as well.

I wish everyone on the pub good health, wealth an happiness. I fer one shall turn a glass ov'r fer Mister Ledger an I hope someday someone will do the same fer me.

[Red Cat Jenny]

Ye can grieve for the human loss an the human condition..even if you do not know the person. Faith ...whichever it may be, teaches us that every life touches someone.

[BriarRose Kildare]

Every Human loss is a tragedy, whether you are known or unknown. When a celebrity passes on young or old it reminds us that every one is mortal and that the Angel of Death comes for every one no matter who you are, young, old, rich, poor, famous or unfamous. We all live to die. We come in to a life time to experience and learn lessons and when we have reached our chosen goal then our time to pass on in to the light is given to each and every one of us.

True, I did not know Heath Ledger, however, his sudden death will leave a void for those of us who enjoyed his acting. And we will mourn the loss for all the other great movies he could have made. Just as when the following people died such as Buddy Holly, Freddy Mercury, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Stewart, Humphrey Bogart, Marilyn Monroe, Ginger Rogers, Ingrid Bergman, John Wayne, Steve McQueen...I could go on and on with a list, but regardless, with each death it signaled an end to an era.

Each and every one of us is Special. We are here for a purpose and whether we are billion heirs, middle class folks just tryin' to make a livin', or a starving child, we are loved and will be mourned by those who mean the most to us. Every death is a tragedy and a loss no matter who you are. It is how we deal with that loss and our understanding of mortality.

And aye, Patrick, I would mourn thee for ye are unforgettable, special and unique as are each and every one of us.

May the light of the Universe Bless Ye All. Hugs and Love to All.

[Iron Bess]

Just as when the following people died such as John Wayne

Oooooooo, I love John Wayne.

The man's been gone near on to 30 years,,,, and he is STILL in the top 10 of all time favorite movie stars in this years poll.

(Chuckle) I guess he's just a guilty pleasure.

[Red Maria]

Every Human loss is a tragedy, whether you are known or unknown.

Which is the point of John Donne's Meditation 17. Although actors were not celebrities in his day it still rings as true as the chuurch bell mentioned. Here is Meditation 17 in its entirty.

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/m...editation17.php

[Iron Bess]

Which was why I quoted it.

[Red Maria]

Yeah. Meditation XVII is my favorite of Donne's Meditations. Ever since you put the quote up it has been going over and over again in my head. So I had to post it in whole

[Misson]

Every Human loss is a tragedy, whether you are known or unknown.

Why? Every life is something of a miracle. It's termination is just the closing of that particular miracle. All good stories have a beginning and an end and this is neither happy nor sad, it just is. Life ends up being tragic by the above quoted definition which seems to me like an awful way to view the world.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." -William Shakespeare

[BriarRose Kildare]

Every Human loss is a tragedy, whether you are known or unknown.

Why? Every life is something of a miracle. It's termination is just the closing of that particular miracle. All good stories have a beginning and an end and this is neither happy nor sad, it just is. Life ends up being tragic by the above quoted definition which seems to me like an awful way to view the world.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." -William Shakespeare

Life is a Miracle and so is Death. All things are both positive and negative, good or bad, it all depends upon how it is viewed. And how one sees the story of his or her life. So I do agree with you Mission.

I believe both a birth and a death should be celebrated, for each in its transition is a miracle of change that is special for that soul.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

My real gripe is not about the money at all. It is about how we will have to hear about this for months just like that goldigger chick and other so called celebreties. What about the jackass that threw a 23 month old off a walkway onto a street the same time this story broke? Ledger had control of his situation and blew it. Too bad for him. That child had no control over his fate, but how many heard about that? It is amazing the things we give importance to, and what we choose to ignore. High profile individuals are no more or less than anyone else. We all eat and get eaten in the end. Remember that an accident is something that is beyond our control, and when the toxicology report comes in, you will see that this was NOT an accident. Too much excess and poof. Yer gone. I don't really care that anyone will or will not greive for my sorry ass. I'll be dead, so who cares!

Bo