LadyBarbossa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Ooo! Oooo! I nearly went bazonkers when I saw this and came straight away to th' Pub! Lookie!!! I know ye've been talkin' about th' stitchin' of the tubing... and THIS... THIS was more than words can say lads an' lasses!!! Can ye see the loverly squiggly stitchin'? :::Drools::: Ok... HAD to come back! Amazing stuff they have there. If ye haven't checked it out... DO SO! Amazing variety of stays, too. Unfortunately there are some ye can't view but there are still a wide variety ye can still view. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Interesting ~ front lacing, looking remarkably similar to the back-lacing 1715 stays pattern I have been working with. Do you have a date for these, Lady B? Love the stitching detail ~ and the colors, my my, how vibrant! Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBrower Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Oh pretties! Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady constance Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 the more and more looking i do at 18th century stays, i find that there are MANY MANY differnt extant examples for us to see!! i have seen so many that lace both front and back...... and would i be correct in assuming that if it laced front and back, it would have more than likley been worn by common folk? { who had no servants to lace them up?} would you agree? please redeem my ignorance......... cheeky sent me a link to www.laracorsets.com ........... there are quite a few there tht are close.... many examples to look thru! her pricing is moderate.... if only i could get away from a few womans jobs here at home ..... ahh duty before pleasure! lady constance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 These were one of many stays that the Met Museum in NYC have. They only labeled these are 18th c. No specific date unfortunately. Titled it a bodice, made in Venice and made of cotton. I'm not sure if the museum has this correct though. But the style does appear correct. There are a few other period stays, some with the shoulder straps some without. All labeled just 18th c. Here are a couple more: Again, a few more there. And I'm sure if anyone went to the Met Museum, they have more period pieces not shown online. You are right, Constance. Likewise. There were a variety of slight differences with shoes, with outfits, hats, etc. It's absolutely wild! But there is a universal style that is rather noticable to the era and even decade one portrays. But I think that is the key right there, the variety of styles could be reflective of the various decades. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNell Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 That blue one is simply stunning. I like the design with the loops and inset stomacher. Similar in design to that long sleeved pink one, I can't imagine those loops are as sturdy as eyelets though they'd be replaceable. Sterling you are a wealth of knowledge on this... what do you think about the overall construction and design of that piece? “PIRACY, n. Commerce without its folly-swaddles, just as God made it.” Ambrose Bierce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The one thing I'm intregued with... is some of these do not lace up in the back as we have been told and instructed. I've seen some period ones that do lace up in the back. So, I'm curious why these are so stiff in the back. Notice one has some extra reenaforcement along the spine and even the tailbone area. Most interesting. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) These were one of many stays that the Met Museum in NYC have. They only labeled these are 18th c. No specific date unfortunately. Titled it a bodice, made in Venice and made of cotton. I'm not sure if the museum has this correct though. But the style does appear correct. I've been waiting for an email from my NYC buddy Lara, but it seems that my email isn't working again. Looks like if anyone is trying to send me attachments, the server thinks its SPAM! If you are trying to get a hold of me. PM me and I'll send you an alternative email you can use. Anyway, I called her and asked her about these...she's seen them and this is her opinion on this item. These stays are probably the first quarter of the 18th century, perhaps about 1720s to 1750s. The stomacher is fully boned, which was common about then. This makes the stomacher very ridged forming a peak, making the front long and lean-- like a bow of a ship. The stays also show long tabs which would reflect the late 17th century. Perhaps this is a carry over from the skill of the stays-maker? The material is just (drool) drop dead beautiful! Lamas silk weave used in the body for those lovely flowers. Yet, upon closer inspection, the gold trim may have been an 'add on' from a later time period? The Met labeled it a 'Bodice' - and this may be correct. Items this pretty would be on show and probably had a lovely matching petticoat and perhaps sleeves to match. It was a custom to use larger pieces of fabric to construct other items if there were a need - yet, we don't know for sure that this is the case with this item. Lara did say that this is a great example of the evolution of the stays. Edited February 1, 2009 by Cheeky Actress Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Is that what the llama silk is... how wicked. Tell Lara thank ye most kindly for the clarification. The few that the Met had online were a variety, including a couple of bodices that were boned! They looked like something that would be under a travel/riding/hunting habit. Or am I wrong about that? Some awesome pieces there at the Met. I'm so excited though. I want to see images of the stuff they don't have online. Plus more stuff from other museums. This is amazing!!! Again, thank ye, Cheeky. :) ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBrower Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'm really interested in the metal loops. Does anyone have any information on this? I've done similar things with non period corsets, and it looks really unique. Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Ooo! Oooo! I nearly went bazonkers when I saw this and came straight away to th' Pub! Lookie!!! Hey Lady B....What are the stats on this one? Looks first quarter of the 18th century. What can you tell us about this lovely find? Edited February 1, 2009 by Cheeky Actress Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 'LadyBarbossa' Is that what the llama silk is... how wicked. Tell Lara thank ye most kindly for the clarification. The few that the Met had online were a variety, including a couple of bodices that were boned! They looked like something that would be under a travel/riding/hunting habit. Or am I wrong about that? Some awesome pieces there at the Met. I'm so excited though. I want to see images of the stuff they don't have online. Plus more stuff from other museums. This is amazing!!! Again, thank ye, Cheeky. :) ~Lady B Yes, I'll tell her when I email her again tonight, Lady B. She said that she has/have the ability to go to the Met and inspect rare items such as these for her research and work. She did say that the Met is changing out a few exhibits and when they are done she may make a trip to over to their 'archive' section to further investigate a few more items of our time period. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 :::Shakes head:::: not much, Cheeky. The Met online only had it at 18th c, made of cotton from Venice. That's all it stated. :::Shrugs::: Lara may know better about it. I'm not convinced by what the Met had listed online. I thought what was wicked was that theses were partially boned and the areas between the casing had decorative stitching. This was awesome! Frankly, I'd like to know more about this piece, too. The fabric looks more like a worsted wool than a cotton. So... :::Shrugs::: More questions than answers... again. Ooo... wicked! would LOVE to see what she finds. And if the Met would allow her to take images to show us. I like the two mantua's they had there - the one brownish wool and the other is salmon silk. But again, they have SO much there that's just amazing. They didn't have images of nearly half the stuff they said was listed online though. So, curious to see some shirts, more bodices and stays, etc... ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'm really interested in the metal loops. Does anyone have any information on this? I've done similar things with non period corsets, and it looks really unique. You know...that's a great question! I'll ask Lara tonight about this type lacing technique. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I would LOVE to see what she finds. And if the Met would allow her to take images to show us. I like the two mantua's they had there - the one brownish wool and the other is salmon silk. Well, this would depend if they are on display or in the research area/storage. There are a TON of items (textiles) they have just laying there in the dark waiting to be pulled out and examined. Sadly, there isn't enough display space for EVERYTHING! As for as photos, I am not sure what the rules are regarding this...I am sure there are, I will have to ask her. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) edit Edited February 2, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ooo! Oooo! I nearly went bazonkers when I saw this and came straight away to th' Pub! Lookie!!! Hey Lady B....What are the stats on this one? Looks first quarter of the 18th century. What can you tell us about this lovely find? These do look very much like the 1715 stays pattern in shape. They did have front and back lacing corsets according to Waugh and full and half boned corsets "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBarbossa Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Wicked! Thank ye, Sterling! T'was wondering. One can see the slight changes now over the decades! :::Does a Snoopy dance::: This is wicked! Now we all don't have to look so bleedin' carbon copy! :) Oh... do check out the other stays they had on the Met's site. I was highly baffled with a pair of period stays but they had breast cups! What th' hell is that all about? That baffled me... I've NEVER seen that before. ~Lady B Tempt Fate! an' toss 't all t' Hell!" "I'm completely innocent of whatever crime I've committed." The one, the only,... the infamous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I was highly baffled with a pair of period stays but they had breast cups! What th' hell is that all about? That baffled me... I've NEVER seen that before. ~Lady B Well without seeing the pair that you are writing about, perhaps for nursing? Did they appear to unlace any where at the edge of the cup? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) From the directions of the shoulder straps I would say earlier, as these are leading toward below the shoulder point, like late 17th/early 18th century bodice gowns... the rest of the construction other than the fact there are no gussets between the tabs and they remain uncovered to be covered by a skirt, again very late 17th century/early 18th century, and the "tail" piece looks very similar to the V&A Pinks stays...which was dated 1660-1670... if the stomacher is coming to a center ridge, perhaps that piece was remade to suit something later.... If indeed a bodice as marked and in appearance, I would not think to date these to the 1750s only due to the fact by 1720s the mantua seems to have been in full sway and boned bodice gowns out of style, although this could be the exception to the rule. Hmmm the more I look at the print the more I am wondering about this one... been looking at some paintings from the 1740s-50s and there are some court style dresses, where once again, the style falls off the shoulder for the ladies... but then I have only been looking at this time frame for about three hours...example Edited February 2, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 never mind "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Why does Lara think the set with the roses are a corset and not a dress bodice? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Why does Lara think the set with the roses are a corset and not a dress bodice? Lara has seen this item and that was her opinion on the blue/flowered Bodice item. Lara said, "The Met labeled it a 'Bodice' - and this may be correct. Items this pretty would be on show and probably had a lovely matching petticoat and perhaps sleeves to match. It was a custom to use larger pieces of fabric to construct other items if there were a need - yet, we don't know for sure that this is the case with this item. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Yes I read this the first time, but you continued to call them stays and concluded with...Lara did say that this is a great example of the evolution of the stays. ....but you also wrote that Lara said"The Met labeled it a 'Bodice' - and this may be correct. "May" makes it sound as if she might disagree... that is what I was asking...why might she disagree? Edited February 2, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Actress Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 To be honest, she did not go into detail regarding the may or may be not. It is very difficult to determine this because...we just don't know. She did state that smaller items, such as bucs and stomachers have been known to be incorporated into 'other clothing' instead of being ripped apart and made into something else (it would be unusal and difficult to tear such an item apart and to use its' fixtures for something else)...yet, again...you can, "never say never" when it comes to such things. Member of "The Forsaken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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