Captain Pogue Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 From what I've been reading and seeing gaiters came into prominence during the F&I war. Were they around during GAoP? If so, in what fashion? Any help would be great, especially from those that maybe did some F&I re-enacting. Thanks, Pogue Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I posed this same question a long tme ago and it never went anywhere then. Maybe this time some one can help out. I like to wear them for many practical reasons in my colonial kit and have started building a pair from oilcloth for the early period stuff. I hope we can come up with some drawings or something besides the Canadian French or military of that period. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 We're looking into this as well at the moment. So far, it seems that gaiters were around during the early 1700s, Villier's marines likes showing them, but it seems that they were not officially issued to all regiments... seems more like at the whim of commanding officers.... will post more when and if we find it... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Perhaps an inquiry into First Nations (aka Native Americans) field gear is in order. I believe that "gaiters" as Europeans came to call them, were a staple of the Eastern Woodland/Iroquois hunting gear. I have nothing at hand to support this, so this is just a signpost for inquiry. As such it is one of those "the natives had 'em, so..." I find it hard to believe that European armies didn't have them. Until…you remember that Europe had different rules of warfare. Long lines of idiots...er...soldiers would line up opposite each other in open fields and fire volleys at each other. It wasn't until war on this continent started involving the First Nations that war moved into "rough" fighting in wooded country and the adoption of gaiters was deemed necessary. Just a signpost, as I said. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I wish I had a copy of Dampier or Esquemellin! Surely if there were any being used by the Bucc's it would be in there wouldn't it? HELP! I know that I have seen plenty of documentation for leggins and Gaiters in the woodlands region for the GAoP period, and I have seen a modern depiction of a Buccaner with gaiters like those being used in New France (Canada) at the same time period. I've done F7I and Rev War for over 15 years now. Just don't remember seing anything back in the buccaneer discussions or the GAoP discussions on this. I have posted this in other threads, but this is my 1750's everyday wear, my boy is 1770's militia here. I'll put up photo's of my oilskins when I get done. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 For the Buccaneer Project, I'm trying to figure that out..... from what I can find.... there are some really thorny plants down there, so covering your legs with something seams to be a wise idea...... I don't know if the lower leg coverings would be buttoned like gaitors.... or just tied on like leggins..... (I'm guessing tied on... but I don't know for sure....) The drawings don't show them very well... but they do lool kinda close fitting to the leg...... so were kinda stuck with pure speculation........ (ie. yer quess is as good as mine....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 It is a bit frustrating. From what I've seen and read, second source only mind ye, they only really pop up during or after F&I just like Capt. Bo stated. But it is hard to believe they weren't common as an alternative to boots, especially during a period where boots were necessarily in fashion. Especially for the rich and fancy to wear while hunting, gotta look good doing it. I also read that they really matured technologically during F&I in ways to improve protecting the leg and how they cover the foot. Thanks for yer input, I'd definitely appreciate knowing what you guys find out. Pogue Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I've never seen mention in any buccaneer tomes about the use of gaiters. I don't think they were in use, at least not in the Caribbean operations of buccaneers out of Tortuga or Jamaica. I've seen the drawings, but I haven't heard of any first hand accounts of their use. Others? -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyTarr Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I am a bit confused. Don't gaiters live in swamps in states like Florida. Sorry I just had to say that. Git up of your asses, set up those glasses I'm drinking this place dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Gators live in the Swamp, but we occasionally let them out to chew up Bulldogs, Seminoles, Volunteers, Wildcats and various other types of sacrificial lambs... OK, thread hijack over, back to our regularly scheduled subject... My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Button up gaiters are certainly in evidence in a general sense prior to and during the GAoP (the earliest I've seen off the top of my head is about 1660-70s). I know of no evidence of their use by buccaneers or GAoP pirates, but it's not impossible. IMHO buccaneers would be far more likely to wear them than later pirates. What I suspect we can see on several of the buccaneer pictures are either cloths wrapped around the leg and tied on somehow or long strips of cloth wound round like puttees. Possibly a mix of both. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I didn't think I'd get around to posting here anytime soon, but happened to find some time... what Foxe said... I doubt pirates wore them unless given some reason... buccaneers may very well have found reasons. Without any trouble I was able to come up with an illo (Guerard's French Dragoons 1695) showing gaiters. If I could find that with no problems, I suspect someone could push it back a decade or two with a bit of research. http://www.piratebrethren.com/periodpics/g...ragoons1695.jpg My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Yeah, I found that picture of the french dragoons after reading Cpt. Sterling's post about Villers' (sp) marines. I'm really not looking to use them for a pirate but definitely GAoP period. Now I'm kinda wondering about material and color. I'm leaning towards hardened leather. My prefernce on the color would be black. Similar to a black belly box. Any thoughts on that? Would that be way off or would buff be more period for hardened leather? Thanks for all your input Pogue Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Fiddle Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Gaiters aren't only for protecting your stockings. They are also valuable for covering the tops of your shoes, protecting your feet from stones that can really get aggravating on a march. I am unaware of high top lace-up-tight shoes, but gaiters do the job pretty well from my experience with them. Lord, I wouldn't swim in them, but they are great for walking about in. Mine are a Cotton Canvas Duck Cloth, but a friend suggests a Russian linen canvas as a more appropriate fabric for the period if going with cloth. I have seen a picture of bucaneers in Arica with what seemed to be gaiters, that was probably 1690's. Wierd Dejavu feeling that Foxe will direct me to an online picture that shows the image in my head. Your most and obliged humble servant, William Dezoma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 I've got the following for an update on this post. Black John pointed me to one of the Baltimore Rangers and he supplied me with the following. All the credit goes to the Ranger for the three years of work he did researching leggings. If anybody wants to track down the first hand references and see some great kits check out the Oldton's Company of Baltemore Rangers. Thanks to the Commander and Black John:huh: Pogue > What we found was that leggings were not commonly> worn day-to-day or even > by the foot soldiers of the time. It appears that > leggings of all sorts > were worn only by those who rode horses and could > not afford, or chose not > to wear, boots. The foot-soldiers did not begin to > wear leggings until the > 1730's as can be demonstrated in various paintings > and woodcuts dating from > 1690-1750. > > Another interesting thing about the leggings worn > at the time is that not > only did they replace the boots, but they were made > to look similar to > boots. The leggings that we wear in our unit even > have a slight 'bucket' at > the top.  It describes three types of leggings available during the period in question, to include leather ones. Something I failed to mention in my initial reply. Avoid the introduction of native styles to your English kit unless you are specifically doing something from one of the Massachusetts at which point you could wear moccasins. Prior to the 1720's the English appear to have actively avoided the introduction of 'savage' styles in their clothing. This is important when thinking of cockers (leather leggings). Of course by the 1750's this was no longer the case as can be seen with Rogers Rangers.  As to your question about metal vs bone(buttons). I have not seen an original pair but paintings and tapestries of men in the leggings show them in good detail, and they are metal.  I also made an incorrect statement in my first e-mail. Leggings were being worn by infantry as early as 1710. The Duke of Marlborough ordered all regiments of foote to have them in 1710, even the duke wore then instead of boots. Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I don't know how accurate these directions are (so this post might be better suited to Plunder than here in Twill ), but since it is on topic, I thought i would share this link for those DIY types out there. The instructions are for the later period half length gaiters/spatterdashes, but i imagine it wouldn't be hard to scale the instructions up to the full length type. Making Spatterdashes instructions in PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format Edit - On further searching on the above web site I found directions for full gaiters Instructions for making full gaiters - instructions in PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Although the legs are not very clear in this image... This portrait dated to 1699 shows what I believe to be gaiters. This is supposed to be a portrait of François Desportes in his hunting outfit. (I think this image has been posted here in reference to another topic at some point or another). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Aye, those do indeed look like gaiters, IMHO "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You need to supersize that baby!!! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...sportes_001.jpg Gaiters. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You need to supersize that baby!!! Hey... check out the pocket on his breaches...... It's also interesting how the top of the gaiters are folded back....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Top of gaiters folded back? I'm not seeing what your looking at. Love the fancy pocket though, that's class! Pogue Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Top of gaiters folded back? I'm not seeing what your looking at. The side with the button holes is folded back on itself...... not folded down over the top...... I should have typed that clearer...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pogue Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 I see, the back edge of the button-hole side is folded towards the front. I wonder what that's about? Pogue Conceptual Simplicity, Structural Complexity, Achieves a Greater State of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 That is the first example of such a fancy pocket in a pair of breeches that I've seen...but it is very cool! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You need to supersize that baby!!! Hey... check out the pocket on his breaches...... It's also interesting how the top of the gaiters are folded back....... For Patrick, more pockets, although the first picture is a modern drawing of an old print...just wish I knew which one, but the second is an original print And yes I realize this is a gaiters thread... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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