Fish Posted December 4, 2003 Posted December 4, 2003 We be readin'about pirates and privateers in me history class and I'm a bit confused as to when pyracy was "legalized" and when it stopped being legal. It started during Queen Elizabeth's rule and privateers went after Spanish ships right? But what happened after that? There were privateers during the Golden Age weren't there? Was it a kind of an on and off thing? Anybody know of any websites that could maybe help me out with this? Any help is welcomed with e'mug o'rum! I've been waiting for us to study pirates since the class began! Best subject for a report as far as I'm concerned. One other question thats been nagging me for a long time: I see the word Pirate spelled with a Y too, was it originally "Pirate" or "Pyrate" or both? Thanks! Fish "Grrrrr!"-My dog "When life isn't all that peachy, eat an apple. Moron."-Shorty The Gothic Sausage
the Royaliste Posted December 4, 2003 Posted December 4, 2003 Many spellings 'o the word 'pirate', one common english being 'pirat' or 'pyrat', even..About privateers..All nations issued letters of Marque, 'legalizing' attacks on foreign shipping, not necessarily just against Spain. Many types during the Great age of Piracy.. Since I'm on the left coast, I prefer 'Pacific Coast Pirates', but there is tons 'o material out there, and also archived in this site in older threads....
Coastie04 Posted December 4, 2003 Posted December 4, 2003 A private vessel holding a letter of marque and abiding by the rules set forth in said letter of marque is a privateer. Attacking ships outside of the parameters set forth in the letter of marque would be an act of piracy, as would attacking vessels without any letter of marque. As I understand it, privateers were generally utilized during times of war to bolster the naval fleet and intercept smugglers, etc. Often, though, the privateers would have a good life privateering and when the war was over, continue in the same trade, but now being labeled as pirates. A search on yahoo or the likes will likely bring up many sources regarding pirates and privateers. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
Fish Posted December 5, 2003 Author Posted December 5, 2003 Alright, thanks! :) "Grrrrr!"-My dog "When life isn't all that peachy, eat an apple. Moron."-Shorty The Gothic Sausage
El Pirata Posted December 5, 2003 Posted December 5, 2003 Straight out of Webster's Online: One entry found for privateer.Main Entry: pri·va·teer Pronunciation: "prI-v&-'tir Function: noun Date: 1664 : an armed private ship licensed to attack enemy shipping; also : a sailor on such a ship - privateer intransitive verb Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left.
Calico Jack Posted December 5, 2003 Posted December 5, 2003 For a good look at what makes a privateer a privateer, check out Dan Conlin's work - available on-line at http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/privateering.html - while it focuses on Nova Scotian Privateers, the general writing and research holds. In essence, Privateers were a means whereby the navies could both hit the enemy in the pocket-book [thus theoretically reducing funds which said enemy nation could spend on its own navy] as well as get folks to sail, since a navy life didn't appeal to most. Privateering had a chance at profit [unlike the navy], a chance to retire [unlike most piracy], and less risk of injury [unlike both]. And the numerous books citing the idea that in peacetime, former Privateers turned Pirate are basically citing a falsehood. It _could_ happen [Peter Easton, the Marquis of Savoy, and Newfoundland Pirate for example], but most former Privateers opened pubs and stores and farms in peace-time, or became fishermen [or smugglers during the American Civil War]. So check out Conlin's research. Cheers! - Calico Jack
Lady Bassett Posted December 5, 2003 Posted December 5, 2003 For a good look at what makes a privateer a privateer, check out Dan Conlin's work - available on-line at http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/privateering.html - while it focuses on Nova Scotian Privateers, the general writing and research holds. How very interesting. I did find my family name among the list (with a slight and common misspelling that still occurs to this day), and it appears it was on this ship: Charles Mary Wentworth 1798-1800A very successful privateer in her short career. Designed and built in Liverpool - some have argued that she was the first warship ever built, crewed and commanded by Canadians. She captured 11 enemy vessels, some of them quite large, and also captured a Spanish island and fort off the coast of Venzeula. She more than paid for herself on her first voyage and earned spectacular profits on her second voyage with five large prizes. On subsequent cruizes, she was less successful and was eventually converted to an armed merchant ship. She capsized and sank in a storm in 1802, fortunately with no loss of life This mountain is mine!
Longarm Posted December 6, 2003 Posted December 6, 2003 And the numerous books citing the idea that in peacetime, former Privateers turned Pirate are basically citing a falsehood. It _could_ happen [Peter Easton, the Marquis of Savoy, and Newfoundland Pirate for example], but most former Privateers opened pubs and stores and farms in peace-time, or became fishermen [or smugglers during the American Civil War]. I'm not sure if I agree with this statement. (Not that I couldn't be wrong mind you, it is well known that I can be.) Most surges of piracy accoured during times of peace. Once a war was over alot of sailors found themselves out of work, few countries could afford to keep a full time navy and those who had letters of marque had them revoked so they too were out of a job. With so many sailors looking for ships the merchants and fishermen could pick and choose and get away with low pay and bad conditions simply because a sailor had no other choice, it was either that or starve. Another thing to look at is that many of the known pirates whose histories we have, started out their careers as privateers. Blackbeard for example served as a privateer during the War of Spanish Succession(1701-1714). This comes from Osprey book 'Pirate's 1660-1730' . While Captain Charles Johnson's book ' Pirates' has Blackbeard serving as a privateer during what he calls " the late French war". Another example Is Henry Every sometimes called 'Long Ben' he was serving on a Spanish privateer named the Charles in 1694. He organized a mutiny and was elected captain and then went on to become the most successful pirates to survive to live off his plunder. And don't forget Captain Kidd also served as a privateer and if it were not for politics the convinant loss of incrimmdateing documents, and the power of the East India Company he might never have been named a pirate. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. To me it smells like....PIRACY!
Coastie04 Posted December 6, 2003 Posted December 6, 2003 Don't forget Sir Francis Drake...Pirate to some, knighted in England. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
Longarm Posted December 6, 2003 Posted December 6, 2003 Well said. A privateer for one country is a pirate to another. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. To me it smells like....PIRACY!
Fish Posted December 6, 2003 Author Posted December 6, 2003 Cool link Calico Jack, very informative, should help a lot "Grrrrr!"-My dog "When life isn't all that peachy, eat an apple. Moron."-Shorty The Gothic Sausage
El Pirata Posted December 6, 2003 Posted December 6, 2003 Don't forget Sir Francis Drake...Pirate to some, knighted in England.Coastie Yeah but so was Henry Morgan and he was a backstabbing bastard! Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left.
the Royaliste Posted December 6, 2003 Posted December 6, 2003 Don't forget Sir Francis Drake...Pirate to some, knighted in England.Coastie Yeah but so was Henry Morgan and he was a backstabbing bastard! "Yessir!!!..Men 'afore their own time!!...Why, If'n they wuz around today, they could be Gov'nor or President!!!!"
Zephyr Posted December 7, 2003 Posted December 7, 2003 Don't forget Sir Francis Drake...Pirate to some, knighted in England.Coastie Yeah but so was Henry Morgan and he was a backstabbing bastard! "Yessir!!!..Men 'afore their own time!!...Why, If'n they wuz around today, they could be Gov'nor or President!!!!" Aye, they are around...an run'n the major corporations too ye were not truely mistaken on that were ye? Me thinks yer were just being...........kind...... shudder
El Pirata Posted December 7, 2003 Posted December 7, 2003 Don't forget Sir Francis Drake...Pirate to some, knighted in England.Coastie Yeah but so was Henry Morgan and he was a backstabbing bastard! "Yessir!!!..Men 'afore their own time!!...Why, If'n they wuz around today, they could be Gov'nor or President!!!!" Aye, they are around...an run'n the major corporations too ye were not truely mistaken on that were ye? Me thinks yer were just being...........kind...... shudder That's the trouble Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left.
Zorg Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 Of minor interest, the US of A issued the equiv. of letters of marque both in WWI and WWII. Bucky Fuller, of all folks, apparently operated a private ship in service to the coast guard during the war. Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered
El Pirata Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Rather interesting little tidbit. Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left.
Coastie04 Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Of minor interest, the US of A issued the equiv. of letters of marque both in WWI and WWII. Bucky Fuller, of all folks, apparently operated a private ship in service to the coast guard during the war. Yes, in WWII, I know it was called the 'Corsair Fleet'. They were a fore runner to the modern day Auxiliary. Pictures (hopefully) follow. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
the Royaliste Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 GRRRRREAT pics, Coastie!!!..Love the Bloke wif' the Thompson on the foredeck, might hafta save that 'n for me first mate!...
El Pirata Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 That pic rocks!!!! Pushing the limits means getting out of my comfort zone and giving more when I don't think I have any left.
RyannMacGregor Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Great pics! Thanks Coastie!.....can't help but wonder if that knife in his bill might explain his slight speach impediment. Captain of The Morrighan.
Coastie04 Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Yes, I love the first two pictures. I really think the Coast Guard would be more intimidating with Thompsons. And this was just the Auxiliary!!! Donald Duck was the Corsair Fleet's mascot. And they say that the 'new Coast Guard' is an improvement...HA! Give me wooden ships, canvas propulsion, and Thompsons for armament any day. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
John Maddox Roberts Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 And it's the full-dress 1923 Thompson at that, the Hollywood gangster model, not the stripped-down, characterless model the Army had.
Dorian Lasseter Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Aye Ladds n' Lassies, Ta slightly deviate from th' topic.... Seein' Donald Duck as th' mascot fer the Corsair Fleet reminded me.... Walt Disney was comissioned by th' U.S. Military ta create insignias fer all o' the armed forces durin' WWII... I 'member this as th' submarine I used ta work on (USS Requin SS481) has a nifty insignia fer hat n' jacket patches.... mayhap I'll dig it up... It's a shark, seein' as Requin is french fer shark.... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org
Zorg Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Where did you find these pix? They're wonderful.. Nicely done, mate. Drop a kitten six feet, and she grins... Drop an elephant six feet, and ya gots yerself a mess ta clean up.... Sometimes bein' the biggest and most powerful is the LAST thing you wanna be..... Mad Ozymandias Zorg the Unsnottered
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