Faire vs Re-enactment

[Zorg]

Agreed, Bloody Jack

I've in me possession a cutlass from around 1800, an its a crude piece o work, bone hilt and hammered iron, but still sharp as blazes and quicker'n any of the reproductions Ive seen. Too much of our reenactment gear comes from sketches of the rich and unlikely-to-ever-do-a-freakin-day's-work, as opposed to the slogs that actually DID the stuff we reenact. My cutlass is badly worn, rusted, cracked, and was never very pretty to begin with. Pretty wasnt the point. Affordable and functional was the point. I suspect that's one reason why so few boarding axes actually survive. Who would save one? I don't save used lawnmower blades either.

:)

On o the things about costumes is that LOCAL meant more until pretty recently. How the town seamstress made bodices was how bodicies in these parts looked until she retires and we gets another one. We never see drawings of this stuff, no nice paintings, few descriptions, but common sense and the development of things says it mustve been.

Mightve been.

maybe both.

[Lucky Penny Hawkings]

My bit to this, silly as it might be.

I like both the re-enactment and "fantasy" ends of things. I tend to try to think of "historically feasable" instead of "historically accurate" most of the time. If it's not quite accurate, could I have gotten away with it mostly unnoticed, in other words?

Sticklers, for the most part, get an ear for as long as they are civil with their tongues. I remember talking to one girl at the Michigan faire way back when and she was talking to me about the whole "covering your hair" thing, because I had my hair down at that point. Funny enough, nowadays it's very hard to get me to wear my hair down, not because of historical accuracy, but because it's just more comfortable.

But overall I try to be realistic, if not completely accurate. You aren't going to see me wearing spandex tights, for example, unless I'm intentionally doing something crazy and wacky, and I try to keep to some pseudo code of dress...the most important one is "can it get dirty and if it does, will I really care that much?"

This is, of course, particularly important to my pirate wear. If I can't bring it on the Royaliste and have it able to take abuse..it's not good pirate wear. :)

This is, by the way, how I stress-tested my green coat. :) Even if it's not a "dressup event" the coat still comes along so it can get a little more sea mileage.

[Blind Rhoid Pyle]

I'm more "faire" than authentic. Comes from my theater background, I suppose. Still, I try to maintain a certain feasibility with my kit. Right now I have a more foppish-baroque look than I'd prefer, it's sort of an in-betweener kit. It works well with my pirate family (four little scallawags and a wench).

I'm working on a more accurate look for the future.

[Red Maria]

Agreed, Bloody Jack

I've in me possession a cutlass from around 1800, an its a crude piece o work, bone hilt and hammered iron, but still sharp as blazes and quicker'n any of the reproductions Ive seen. Too es in these parts looked until she retires and we gets another one. We never see drawings of this stuff, no nice paintings, few descriptions, but common sense and the development of things

Mightve been.

maybe both.

Zorg

Was that the cutlass I used the last time I spared with you (3 yrs ago!) when I was out in your neck of the woods?

[Zorg]

Three years ago?

Maria, lass, I have enough trouble remembrin what I was doin three minutes ago.

Actually, I don't think so. I was something Id had for decades, only just rememberd it recently, and dug it out of storage last year sometimes, only to finally realize what it was I had.

Sigh....they say memory is the second thing to go.

unfortunatly, I no longer remember what the FIRST thing was....

[Stynky Tudor]

Hawkyns,

I’m sorry that I missed ya at PIP, if I had been a bit more organized I would have gotten yer contact information before I was there. Would have liked to have bought ya a drink! I showed up late meself and came back early. Most of it be a blur now, but I had a great time none the less.

As fer me kit, me focus has always been on a slight living history angle. I say slight because I only sew so much of me own stuff by hand and candle light and I use a bit of elastic in me shirt sleeves. Plus I threw me lower back out making me own wool felt hat blanks, some things are best left up to machines I say. So I’m far from being a 100% accurate, but I do try were I can or were I’m not to lazy to cut corners.

As for basic clothes there’s enough cross over, baggy pants or breeches made of sail cloth, a sash around the waste, bare feet, stockings, boots, head scarves. I mean from Corsair to the Buccaneer you’re set, except fer weapons, hats and that fancier clothes stuff, I know you already know.

But to answer yar question yes, depending on the event I will tailor me Pirate look, depending on the time period I be going fer. Fer me it’s not about being less to more authentic from fair to reenactment, it’s an event and all the same. Now from time to time I might break me own rules and do something stupid like wearing a tricorne hat and carry a wheellock pistol to be sure, but that would be the rare occasion and I’m not likely to admit to doing it in public.

[CaptJackSparrow]

Sorry fer dredgin up the likes of an ol thread ye be gone an past. But I've a lot'o catching up t'do. Fer what me shillin's werth t'yee I feel I can safely say I bee sidin with TalesOTSS on thisun here. I've also been soured on the re-enactor thing for the most part as the anal retention has reach record levels, or depths depending on how you look at it. The Pirate era caught my ineterest, or, renewed interest as it were by the very nature of the business you must find and use what you can, be it old or new. I do agree that care MUST be taken to keep it quasi authentic(thank god for POTC and Cutthroat Island). People for too long have have the vision of pirates as super neat technicolor idiots with an over the top accent. As we all know pirates rarely look like royalty all primp and proper with really clean linens. However I think that recognisability is a key thing with the public also but not at complete sacrifice of reasonable authenticity. Cause remember that public's view is a romantic one and we know the pirates true life was anything but romantic. I also have say I'm with the Faire folks as it is really about havin fun and the for the benefit of the people that come to see it. Before the faire thing got so specific I would love to "invade" the midway(so to speak) as my other alter ego Captain Black Jack Morgan and harass(nicely) the folk walking about. Specially the little kiddies... I would carry about a fistfull of doubloons and give them away to the kids and tell them "now you take this here coin and keep on ye always fer luck and the next time ya be threatened by any pirate ye show em this here coin? and tell em Black Jack Morgan gave ye this coin and ye bepertected always in yer travels" But , alas, this attitude has changed and if it ain't period.... it ain't...PERIOD. So here to hopin that the resurgence lasts long enough to have some real fun this time around.

BTW: All the pirate in a bag costumes should be outlawed, now plastic hook, no wooden legs (less they are legit) No flocked hats and felt eye patches. IMHO. Sorry about the long post.

Jack

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

With an economy (meaning "no") budget, I like to stay relatively similar to the actual time, while having a lot of fun. I went to the PIP Festival to have fun on my honeymoon.

As for the character...while I did greet everyone there with a soft hash of my newly-aquired piratey self, when I engaged in a regular conversation, the Tennessee girl in me came right on out and I spoke normally.

What confuses me most (and my new hubby as well) is the fact that so many people have so many different personalities, which is weird in any book. My advice to those die-hard reinactors out there is to act normal if someone comes up to you, knowing you're the same person in a different outfit. There were several people there whose personality changed with EACH DIFFERENT OUTFIT. Please...I know it's a lot of fun, but it's terribly confusing. Unless you have an extreme makeover and get a facelift between costumes, it's pretty much useless to pretend that we've never met.

I already know who you are.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, and far be it for me to spoil anyone's fun...but when I meet you one day and speak to you the next and you pretend like you don't know me...it's kind of a turn-off. It's like it gives people the cold shoulder (and not just me--several folks were commenting on the same deal). So, sure. Have fun. Play with different characters, if that's your thing. Just don't act like a rude idiot when you do. Not saying that anyone did...mind you, but some Faire folk do.

It just reminds me of a person I know who once did Ren Fest. He acted like he didn't know me, because I'd never met his character. Duh.

Capt. WE Roberts

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

Play with different characters, if that's your thing. Just don't act like a rude idiot when you do. Not saying that anyone did...mind you, but some Faire folk do.

It just reminds me of a person I know who once did Ren Fest. He acted like he didn't know me, because I'd never met his character. Duh.

Cap'n Roberts,

Being as I am one o' those "Faire Folk" I must speak up in friendly defense of the events at which I have been on cast (and thus put through the Academy classes that are mandatory requirements for the play time).

Each actor/actress is taught to turn off the "mundane" side and to turn on the "Character" side. Thus, Jane Doe might be your kids teacher but at faire she becomes "Lady Grace Parker" and thus, Lady Parker would not know you nor your kids. It's not that Jane's being rude or giving anyone the cold shoulder; she's just doing what she's been taught to do ... "Become the character" and make that character real rather than a character on a stage out of the audience's reach.

Faire for the most part (there are exceptions as we all know), attempts to teach history and divest in the patrons the love of history or at the least, an interest great enough for them to go home and research the time period/characters. It is not meant to be 100% anything (unless it is the rare event that is billed as such). The majority of the Faires I have worked have striven for what we on the Circuit term "Historical Believeability". But, I digress from your point, please do forgive me.

So, it's not that your friend/family/co-workers are trying to ignore you or being "stupid" by not acknowledging you while they are "In Character" it is simply they are being true to the person they are portraying. After all, Queen Elizabeth or King Henry VIII would not know you, would they? (And btw, there are classes taught on how to maintain your character in the face of friends/family/co-workers or the occasional rude patron that delights in popping you outta character).

I hope this helps you to understand we Rennies more and why we do the things we do during a faire day.

With Respects,

Cap'n Emerald

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

Oh, by the stars!

I knew I'd be gettin in over me head when I typed that long reply.

Let me make one thing straight...

I apologize to anyone I might've offended when I blurted out my comment on folks who pretend not to know me in different costumes. I know being in costume and staying in character is fun and all. Most of the time, I love it. I like being lost in time when I go to a RenFest or what have you. It's just when I'm actually given the cold shoulder by a PERSON, and not a character.

For example, I have known other people who RUDELY do it, just to make innocent folks like me a bit frazzled. "Not funny. Don't do it," I say.

Capt. WE Roberts

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

Cap'n Roberts,

I also meant nay offense when I did respond to yer post. I know that if people do nay work at a Ren Faire as cast or crew that there tends to be a lot o' confusion about what we *really* do and the classes that we really do take in order to fill our contracts and get paid.

I agree with ya about the characters/people who are downright rude when their characters are nay billed as such; for example, there be a gent in the mid-west that works the lanes and he tis called "Rufus the Rude" though mayhaps most of the patrons do nay know his name as he tis nay listed in their "wanted poster" that they recieve at front gate.

When ya do encounter one o' those nasty ones, tis best to just ignore them. For e'n though they be showing their arses, their interaction will flop badly if'n ya just turn and walk away without acknowledging them. Aye, I ken, tis often harder to do so.

Hopefully there be nay to many rude arses out there for people to encounter. If'n ya do, remember that that person tis nay the only actor at the faire ... seek out the one who be having a grand time for that tis the one who shall be able to lift yer spirits and brighten your day.

With Respects,

Captain Emerald Shaunassey

[Nigel]

Uh-oh....Prepare for long-winded dissertation. On this, I speak plainly and directly.

One thing that Hurricane (my pirate Sensei) has taught me, and it has proven to be truer than I ever anticipated:

We are in the business of service, to the patrons, the community, the spectators, whatever. We are not there to gratify ourselves, we are there to serve.

Lose sight of that, and you miss the whole point. Secondly, if you ignore it, you alienate your audience, which is (to me) a shameful neglect of your responsibility as a performer. Third, the rewards you get from focusing on the audience's entertainment experience far exceed the rewards of self-oriented egotism.

Trust me, I have been on both sides of this equation.

The difference is that in the instance of self gratification, you are coming from a place of ego, of lack. This is always a dead-end.

In the instance of service, you are coming from a place of abundance. There is so much fun, you have to give some away to make room for more. People are drawn to that, and the response is astounding. They will respond in ways you never would have anticipated, and it is so much more rewarding. Everybody wins.

I saw examples of these principles in action time and time again at the PiP festival in Key West.

[Thank you for the lesson, Sensei.]

There, I am finished with the soap box. (What did ya think I was gonna do with it, take a bath?)

Forgive me if I offend anyone, or get too far off topic; this is my opinion on the subject.

The question, then, is this: at what point does "staying in character" conflict with providing entertainment/enjoyment for the audience?

[Hawkyns]

Forgive me if I offend anyone, or get too far off topic; this is my opinion on the subject.

The question, then, is this: at what point does "staying in character" conflict with providing entertainment/enjoyment for the audience?

Not at all, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to discuss when I started the topic.

For me, it depends on the venue and the audience. I have a real problem with 'street theater'. I rarely do ren faires or similar venues for that reason. Far easier for me to stay in character and discuss the reality of the life. Now, that said, I am the master gunner and handle weapons duties. So it's easy to talk about the weapons in a realistic manner and stay in first person for it. I also maintain a period camp so that is a talking point, too.

******HERESY WARNING*********

We're all here because of a love of piracy. I like it because it's a life where you make your own way, settle problems with your right arm and cold steel, and are not constrained by stupid beaurocracy and pointless rules. That said, the glamour is something added by time and distance, not much of the truth. I prefer the reality of it, and do all I can to get closer to that, discomfort and all. The 'jolly pirate' seems at odds to me with the descriptions of Exquemellin and Defoe. Hard men and women all, I try to portray that.

That does not play well with the kids, to be sure. On the other hand, the real history buffs stand and talk for hours of weapons, life, and sea battles. You can't please them all, so someone will always be upset. I guess I'd rather upset a few people than give a false impression or pass misleading information. You have to pick your audience. Many (most?) here play to the crowd, the kids, the people who want merely to be entertained. That's fine. My audience is those who want to know more, who want to know what's beneath the surface. It's a much smaller audience, but it's much more gratifying to me.

Hawkyns

[Conner O'Dea]

Hawkyns I agree with you about the history aspect of it. Too much of the past has been romanticized about our past. Life in the times we portray wasn't easy or always fun and people need to know that. Especally kids. They think what they see on TV is gospel. Being a history teacher I've tried to change that with varying degrees of success.

That being said; there is no way anyone is gonna take away my velcro fly britches without a fight. I try to be as accurate as possible from 10 feet away but I've found trying to be perfect will please one garb nazi and tick off another. I therefore try to look good and be fairly accurate.

[Black Deacon]

It does depend on the venue but I try to do both. Be as accurate as possible and entertaining. As both a stuntman and re-enactor I've been able to blend the two. Allot can be fixed with fabric choice. Try to stay within the color range and fabric types of the time. You don't need to get ridiculous about it but Rayon, Polyester, Day-glow colors and the like didn't exist. So I don't use them. Now, my boots do have a rubber sole but this is a safety factor for my sword fight shows.

[RyannMacGregor]

Allot can be fixed with fabric choice. Try to stay within the color range and fabric types of the time. You don't need to get ridiculous about it but Rayon, Polyester, Day-glow colors and the like didn't exist. So I don't use them.

Thank you Black Deacon...I love to start the morning off with a laugh and smile, and the visual you just painted, sure did that. Day Glo Pirates

In regards to fabric, I've found some of my best finds at upholstery stores....there are plenty of choices, and I'd like the think the courser threaded ones would reflect well on what was available in that time period. Plus, muslin is always well stocked there. Just my two shillin's.

[Red Maria]

Accuracy vs theatre. I am reminded that in October PRP performed at a reading festival at the Huntington. The festival was over two Saturdays and featured re-enactors from the Elizabethan period, Revoultionary War, Gold Rush and us.

We were scheduled the same Saturday as the Gold Rush people. They had a very accurate encampment right down to can labels and period dry goods. We had a scaled down encampment becuase we had just done the Ojia Pirate Faire the weekend before.

Who had the best turn out? Who had the most comments and compliments We did! (Comments like "I didn't know that about pirates!" "those guys rock!") Why? Because we brought books! (Both children & adult books) Not period bound but books that each of us had in our libraries at home and wanted to share. We also had storytelling from the afore mentioned books and games which were period.

Becuase we chose to let a wee bit of the modern world in we were able to make the world of the Golden Age of Piracy come alive for young and old. This was after all a Reading Festival . None of the other encampments brought books of any sort at all. The other two groups, The Elizabethan court and the Revolutionary War brigade that performed two Saturdays afterwards, as good as they were, still did not get as much positive feedback as we did.

Sometimes you need to be as period as possible. Sometimes you need as it is said in theatre 'drop the fourth wall' and let the audience in. :)

[Hawkyns]

Who had the best turn out? Who had the most comments and compliments We did! (Comments like "I didn't know that about pirates!" "those guys rock!") Why? Because we brought books! (Both children & adult books) Not period bound but books that each of us had in our libraries at home and wanted to share. We also had storytelling from the afore mentioned books and games which were period.

Becuase we chose to let a wee bit of the modern world in we were able to make the world of the Golden Age of Piracy come alive for young and old. This was after all a Reading Festival . None of the other encampments brought books of any sort at all. The other two groups, The Elizabethan court and the Revolutionary War brigade that performed two Saturdays afterwards, as good as they were, still did not get as much positive feedback as we did.

Sometimes you need to be as period as possible. Sometimes you need as it is said in theatre 'drop the fourth wall' and let the audience in. :)

As I said, depends on the venue. For your venue, it sounds like you made the correct choice. A fair like that is not somethng I would do. (besides, I don't DO children. the best solution to children is a good curry sauce :) ) I have some theatre background but it was more on the tech side. My training in this area is from volounteer training at places like Plimoth Plantation and Salem's 1630 Pioneer Village. Total immersion stuff.

Living History timelines are my favourite, followed by other living history events and battles. Much easier to completely get out of the 21st century and into a period mindset. Which, after all, is why I do this.

[Red Maria]

It was surprising how many adults were enjoying it too. Writing titles of books down (like General History of Pirates) and playing the period games like Dutch Blocks.

As you said it was an appropiate choice given the venue. It would not have beem for Plimouth Plantation (well except maybe in the gift shop ). The total emersion stuff is great and I salute you for it.

Sometimes it's nice to be out of the 21st century. :)

[Red Maria]

P.S. I too have a stage techie background as well. Everything from stagehand to stage manger. I can build sets too! :)

[Nigel]

Thank you Black Deacon...I love to start the morning off with a laugh and smile, and the visual you just painted, sure did that.  Day Glo Pirates

"Clearly you've never been to Seafair...."

[Capt. Westyn Elizabeth Roberts]

Excellent choice of words. Someone used the word "ego." As in egotistical. I believe that's where the talent really kicks in. Those who have talent will have fun and have so much fun that it spills over into the crowd, if you're doing a live character in front of an audience. An egomaniac will let his chest and head puff up so large that he's a bastard to all who dare come into his path.

But, you guys sound like a buncha fun pirates! I'd love to see you all sometimes. I know I got to meet a few at the PIP festival, but I'd like to run into some more fun-loving pirates along the way sometimes soon.

Have fun re-doing, re-enacting, whatever...just have fun. Oh, and be nice. If you consider yourself an actor doing a job, it won't be much fun. But, if you lose yourself in the character and let the audience know how much fun you're having, they won't be able to dislike you!

Capt. WE Roberts

[Lady Elaina]

With myself I took my part very seriously. I tried to know as much as I could about my historical figure, but also brought different garb to play someone fictional the last day of this past event.

But when I was reenacting, I was trying to be very accurate, even down to the family names.

Gabrielle

[Olaf Grumby]

Re-enacting verses faire I think it is all a farce My character during the PIP just was and that's all there is to it. I just acted like myself with historical accents. I was not emersed in the period the period was emersed in me. That way everyone can have fun and if you pompus here you would be pompus it that period too. Your character should be your natural persona with the accents of that historical period you wish to portray. This approach makes it easier to become a character and easier to relate to people aroun you.

[Dreamie D'Avanzo]

"Clearly you've never been to Seafair...."

Hahahaha.... Ye be right on that, Nigel!

One o' those bloody cartoons sparked his giant "cutlass" on the ground in front o' me.

Me... I just blinked, smirked, an' kept walkin' away with a swish.

Good Plunderin', me Lovelies!