Faire vs Re-enactment

[Hawkyns]

OK, I've got a general question for the board, based on a couple of things. First, I just got back from PiP in Key West. Now, granted I couldn't stay the whole week and left before many things even started, but I kind of felt out of place. Definitely a re-enactor among a group of Faire Folk. I even heard some talk among the Faire Folk about whether to remove fox tails, etc, and how 'faire' they could look. On another thread over at Captain Twill, Cap'n William says that he tailors his look and expectation to the event.

So here's the question, or actually questions. Do the patrons of this pub consider themselves Faire Folk or re-enactors? Do you change your clothing to match the period of the event or always wear the same thing? How important is the accuracy of your kit? Do you participate in battles or are the cutlasses and pistols just for show?

Not trying to start anything, but I'd just like to get an idea of where I am on the pirate continuum.

Hawkyns

:)

[Dorian Lasseter]

Aye Master Hawkyns,

Ye know me well enough ta know my answer ta tha'.... But, for th' rest o' the Ladds n' Lassies...

I'm more the Re-enactor type, now I'm not perfect, yet...

I do try to keep what I wear in the proper time period that I'm representing, for example; I would not carry a cap lock pistol while dressed as a mid-18century Pyrate, or carry a 19th century cutlass for the same... I do have some things that 'pass' for correct - barely... but I'm workin' on tha'...

Now if I'm goin' ta something that's a fluffy bit o' fun, with no regard for correctness... well.... *shrug*

And this is not to say I stand around and comment on other folks stuff as being correct or not... I will however comment if they are claiming what they have as correct when it is not...

[the Royaliste]

Bloody 'eck!...Ye kinda know my stance here, but, when a serious bunch of reenactors hits the deck, it's pretty straight up,.... that said, most of these types of event are seemingly shifting to a more 'festive' nature. That's my opinion on the masses, but...me?? I participate at the same level, although, regardless of the event, if the safety of a person is compromised, I'm gonna say something relevant, be it footware(most common), or lack of warm sea clothing. My position?..Sail the Ship, load the guns, fire at will!..Same-o, same-o, eh?

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

My look is geared toward instant recognizability, rather than historical accuracy. I'm not in it to please other reenactors. I'm in it for the sparkle in the eyes of the little kids, the grins and jokes from the adults and being able to appeal to people of all types.

I want everyone who is age 2 and up to look at me and instantly know I'm a pirate. That means flamboyant and excessive costuming, overacting, giving away treasure rather than taking it and having a kick-arse time with little regard to the traditional and nearly non-existant roles of women in piracy. There were only a handfull of known women pirates and the rest were wenches who aided, mostly from land. Tavern wenches, prostitutes at the docks and average everyday landlubber women.

*leaps upon a nearby soap box, sword raised high!!!*

To bloody heck with sitting in an encampment sewing!!!

Doing the laundry while people watch be damned to hell!! :)

I kin buy me own rum!!!!!!

I'm packin' swords, flintlocks, cat-o'-nines and all the weapons I kin carry!!!!!!!

And if ye wants t' bed me I'll take ye on me own terms not yerz, ye' bloody pirate scoundrels!!!!!! :)

I sirs, be a PIRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

(Get me drift lads?!! :) )

[the Royaliste]

"KAAA---BOOOM!!!!"...Fires larboard batteries in support 'o 'recognizable' pirates!!!

'Raises new standard on mizzen 'o the 'FUN NATZI'S'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Me first mate's as 'pirate' as they come, but without a .45 he ain't alive!) :)

[Black Deacon]

I try and stay as accurate as ossible. Even at Fairs I'm usually more accurate than most. I remema time at fairs where accuracy was strived for. But that seems to be a way of the past.

[Dreamie D'Avanzo]

I think I'm probably a mix o' the two.... I haven't been at it long, but ah think most o' me wares at least look close to accurate. Being a woman pyrate though being mod'rately out of period.

Personally I dont have a taste fer the "cartoon" Pirates like the Seattle Seafarers... aye a bit too much red on THAT captain if ye's ask me! An' makin' oversized "cutlasses" out of sheet metal don' get me jollies it'all.

Even wit'out a lot of the really obviously pyratical cues (such as a Tricorner hat and an eyepatch), I'm still instantly recognizable as a pyrate by young and old. I dinnae know if it's the swagger I always fall into er what... but it sure works. I'm thinkin' it's all about the bandana.

But overall, I fancy a gritty look.. flashy while still antique, if ye know what I'm tryin' t' say.

I guess ye could call it a "Blackpowder Renfaire Pirate"?

Good Plunderin', me lovelies!

[Red Maria]

I've done both. There quite a bit of historical accuracy in my costume but it's tempered by the fact I am there to entertain. Also I run to the more flamboyant pirate (think Black Bart or that anonymous Frenchwoman pirate who showed up in NYC during the 18th c.) rather than a standard wench or woman pirate. Also I portray someone who has spent sometime on the Barbary Coast so elements of the costume reflect that. My kit is possible but not proable.

Although due to cost considerations what weapons I have are not for combat. When I do get proper weaponry it will not be for show.

I do hand out booty to kids but I also give lessons in pirate nuematics (what are pieces of eight?) and other piratical & maritime knowledge.

Oh yeah I forgot I have good time at it too. :)

[redhand]

Well Master Hawkyns, as you might have guessed

from some of my other posts and/or looking at my bio,

that I come from a living history/re-enacting background.

I perfer to keep my kit as period as possible, and by that I

mean early to mid 18th century, it's where my interest lies

as far as sea farin'. Now that being said, I suppose I'm also

a bit like Cazcabel in that I also like to use my piratical interests

to do a bit of a "cartoony" or more "theatrical" looking pirate

kit, though I haven't been able to afford the exact outlandish

kit that I'd like as yet! I do perfer to goe as historically as

possible however to any event(s) I attend. It's just what I

put into a time period that I'm able to take away from that

same experience, that's what's gratifiying to me. Plus, for me

it's usually a burning desire/need to put together a historically

acurate kit...call it a "sickness" if you will!!

Cheers

Redhand

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Aye Master Hawkyns, 'tis an interesting question ye've posed. We crew of Ye Pyrate Brotherhood try to be as authentic as possible without being Fascists about it. As I've explained before in other postings, we concider ourselves "acting re-enacters" in that we have a scripted performance that we present to the public, leading up to a treasure hunt for the kids, but we do it in a way that tries its best to be historicaly accurate and still fit the image that most people have come to expect of pyrates. Ye PB are patterned after Buccaneers of the late 17th C. with cavalier hats and bucket boots, rather than the later tri-corn hats and buckled shoes look of the Golden Age. We shoot black powder weapons, including a swivel gun and a small cannon mounted on a naval carriage. We fight with blunted rapiers and cutlasses. As far as events go, we stick to maritime events and pyrate festivals. We've tried the Renn Faire thing just as spectators, but were not warmly received as we didn't fit in chronologically with the rest of the crowd. The same goes for the first year of the Hampton, Va. Blackbeard Festival where we had the opposite problem of representing too eary a period for them. Ironically we unintentionally stoled the show there because we fit the public's image of pyrates more than the more hard-core reenacting crews who were there. As an individual entity like our good shipmate Cascabel, one can have a variety of garb and equipment to fit a broad time range. As a group, Ye PB focuses on a specific period and works to maintain that look. Because of the earlier time period represented at Renn Faires, the folks who come out of that scene and decide to be pyrates seem, at least from our experience, to blend and adapt garb, weapons, etc. into a later time frame than they are really intended for. This is fine, as far as it goes, but is more fantasy than history, in my humble opinion. The bottom line in my book is lighten up, have fun, and appreciate how wide and diverse the pyrate reenacting scene is becoming.

Cheers!

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

I am a five year vet of the ren faire circuit and consider myself to be both a reenactor and a rennie. Being land locked (Oklahoma) severely limits tall ship availability and the fact that lack funds for a tallship of my own (and a place deep enough to keep it), I'm pretty much left with only Renaissance Faires to perform/act at.

That being said, I also go for "instant recognition" of a sea farer, though I lack peg leg, eye patch and parrot on my shoulder. I tend to be a costume/historical "nazi", much to the annoyance of the ladies within the reenactment group I own and manage.

The differences are that we are an all female crew, we portray Privateers from the Tudor - Early Elizabethan Eras rather than the "Golden Age of Piracy" and we are improv actresses that have been turned loose to entertain the masses on a stage as well as "in the lanes". We also give away booty rather than taking it and turn the patrons into Privateers at the end of our stage show, replete with their own Letter of Marque.

There are only two recorded female pirates in the history preceeding and following us for us to draw upon and still maintain our sense of history and "historical believability". The first in the 5th century: Princess Alwilda, daughter of the Gothic king, Synardus and the second in mid 16th - very early 17th centuries: Grace "Granuaille" O'Malley (1530 - 1603).

As far as our clothing, it is ambigious enough to pass from Tudor through Elizabethan; allowing us to perform at festivals and such regardless of the "time period" of the event and without having to drop a huge sum of money for each different event (to cut cost, we also make our own garb). We do wear the fox tails (mostly for conversation pieces and to give just a tiny bit of history), hats that are all pre-GAoP (my hat was once a tricorn but since they have not come into fashion in the time period I "play in", I reshaped it to vaguely resemble a cavalier hat) and while our daggers and swords are live steel, they are used for "props" until such a time as I can get all the ladies trained to actually use them. Those of us who carry guns have opted to use museum replicas that allow us to "fire them off" without being a liability at an event with shot and powder.

Our footwear, that is the one place where in we do "fudge" and lean more towards the GAoP styles. But, they are rugged enough to stand up to 16 + hours a day on our feet (without hobbling back to camp) and last for a long time.

At the events where we camp, everything must be of the period or "period-esque" (down to the foods that are cooked during the "patron hours" of the events). The biggest obstacle with both strict reenactments and faires is the money required to invest in your "hobby".

Hope this helps any who are curious.

Respects,

Captain Emerald

[Red Maria]

When you guys were talking about foxtails I was thinking of those prickly things that get stuck in every part of a costume no matter what event you're at! No it means a fox's tail. Duh!

I never noticed them before at events out here. Then I don't look at women's bottoms.

[Scupper]

I be a serious re enactor. As well as part of a minstral group. I have no problem with faire types as I've done that as well. but i prefer to re enact and be in action.

Scupper

[the Royaliste]

Hmm, seems as tho this has become a 'one or the other' type, instead of all of the available styles..So, put this in a pigeon-hole for me...I'm sailin' on the Bay, doin' a fair job 'o sea battles wif' a hella big crowd 'o ships, an' me decks are full 'o pirates AND wenches, all decked out, yellin' an' firin' locks an' deck guns, without a friggin' renfaire in sight!!...Category, anyone???

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

without a friggin' renfaire in sight!!...Category, anyone???

Umm.... in a category all your own, Royalist?

Captain Emerald

[TalesOfTheSevenSeas]

Sadly, what soured me on striving for historical accuracy, was not only the lack of fun roles for women, but also several bad experiences with reenactors. I met so many who were not only rude and arrogant, but downright cruel to people. That's what I love about pirate faires, is that there is the element of fun that dominates over all. I have a great time and I don't get verbally beat up by people who may or may not know their history. When it comes to piracy, many of the reenactors are unaware that the "Hook Look" is not just Hollywood, but historically accurate for pirates going ashore. (per Dr. David Cordingly) Technically, a pirate could wear a Roman toga, Chinese pants/shirt, Arab garb or any number of costumes and be a historically accurate pirate. Sadly, I've seen so many reenactors make incorrect accusations, publically humiliate people and much worse. That's why in Tales of the Seven Seas we let people choose to be either historically accurate or not and enjoy both. I wear my historically accurate wench when a faire requests it, but more often than not, I'm armed to the gills, bright red and wearin' me plumes!

[Zorg]

: Its interesting and disappointing: I'm also one of the producers of the Southern Illinois Renaissance Faire, which has, through circumstance ridiculous, heavy participation from both the SCA and the Medieval Combat Society. The MCS is there for the fun, boffing their way through the entire event with leather armour and foam swords. The SCA often just seems to sit in judgement.

But frankly, I doubt that someone from 1573 would sit around critiquing a peasant's choice of scarf. Reenactment, it seems to me, more a matter of choice of life than of how wide your eating knife blade was.

So I'm delighted to get a chance to slog along with my Cutlass, atl-atl, hopilite breastplate, rollerblades, and laser carbine. Not period? You lookin to join Davey Jones, mate?

[the Royaliste]

(Me first mate's as 'pirate' as they come, but without a .45 he ain't alive!) :)

Like I said, Mate!..All auto's!

After sailin' many an ocean, one begins to understand the requirements for offshore sailing...... :)

[Hawkyns]

Interesting. I thank ye all for ye' replies. As I said, I'm no tryin' t' start something, just tryin' t' get a handle on where things are and where I fit in to this grand crew.

Obviously, I'm on the authentic side of this game, having been a re-enactor for 23 years and a member of the SCA for 27. I have three periods that I do, 1595, 1740, and 1770. I don't carry a weapon that I can't use or that is not the real thing, and I make damn sure that I really can hit my targets, by time on the gun range and time in the sword salle.

I guess where I felt a bit out of place is in reacting to the public. I can talk for hours about the history, the ships, and the weapons. I do living history real well, both 1st and 3rd person. But the 'street theater' aspect of this game is a lost art to me. Dumb comments from the populace are most like to get a blank look from me. That, or I'll go full bore period and wind up insulting them and turning them off. Not everyone is interested in the whole experience. That is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess an example would be a couple of years ago, I was on the Half Moon and the only place to doss down was in the anchor cable flat. My mattress that night was the anchor cable, still damp and smelling from use in NYC harbor the previous week. Some joined me, some went and found a hotel. I loved it. My feeling was that it gave me one more tiny aspect of shipboard life for a period seafarer. Anyone can have fun in the sun with a good crowd and friends about. Dealing with the hardships of the pirate life is something that I want to know how well I can do.

My lady wife does variations on the game too. She can do wife, wench, fantasy pirate, or when neccesary, turn out as a man and work the guns with me.

Anyway, thank ye all f' listening, and f' helpin' me figure things out. Drinks are on me, next time we meet.

Hawkyns

[Rumba Rue]

I've done both sides of the situation. When I was actually a participant at the Southern Renaissance Faire here in Calif. I had to be absolutely true to the game.

But since leaving many years ago, I prefer to 'play' and wear what I feel like without the 'Costume Nazis' telling me what I can and can't do.

I'm at fairs and events to have fun, not run the 'politically correct' rules all over the place.

Rules- I don't need no stinkin' rules!!!!!

RumbaRue

**What part of arrggghhhh didn't you understand?**

[Zorg]

Master Hawkins, as a history geek meself, I also can get into the recital mode, but as a theatre geek as well, I gets ta perform it.

I think th point is, if no one is havin a good time, our revels are like ta be short lived.

Just wish the re-enactors and the street theatre types could all get together an on the same page of the log.

T'would make weekends slogging about in frock coate or doublet a good deal more sportin.

:) :) :) :)

oh, yass

[Coastie04]

OK, I be more with Roaliste on this one. Primarily, I've sailed on the Lady Washington. We have dockside tours and reinact life on a tall ship for three-hour sails. It's not exactly accurate, esp. below deck (we have racks, matresses, modern galley, heads, etc.) On deck and aloft, things are as historically accurate as modern standards of safety allow. With public, it really depends. Sometimes we try to put on a 'good show.' This is usually just jumping around to the braces, going aloft to loose and furl sail, and other normal workings of a ship. Of course, we answer questions when possible. Other times, we have school kids on board and are all about teaching them. The few times where we get to go out sailing with just crew, we are all there to have fun, whether in period attire or not. So, it's a combination of educating, reinacting, playing to the public, and having fun.

My garb generally portrays a 1790's merchantman. I've got two cutlasses, but neither are really good for combat and one I wouldn't dare try to use. I don't have any firearms yet, but I've used many caplock and flintlock rifles before, and once my dad kicks the bucket (not expected soon), then I shall have a few. My shirt and trousers are not great, but my mom did hand-make them and they generally look like the same style, so I consider that close enough. And they've got pine tar all over them and they're well worn; that just adds to the 'authenticity' of them. I've also got a variety of other knick-knacks that I can add on to the garb, such as a knife, telescope, botswain's pipe, and other nautical-looking things. Eventually, as time and money permits, I do want to concentrate on a more authentic approach, but that will most likely be a slow process of accumilating stuff for this obsession...er...hobby.

Main goal: Have fun!!!

Coastie

[Longarm]

It might not be worth what I say but here is my two cents worth. If the event is meant mainly for fun such as a faire or festival, then live and let live when it comes to costumes and gear and just have fun. Don't critise or mock someone just because it's not period your both there to have fun so have fun. If it really bugs you that someone isn't wearing the right hat or that their buttons weren't made during that time period just walk away. Why ruin your or their day over something so trivial.

Here's a good example, Nov. 20th was my 5th wedding aniversary and just to be different my wife and I decided to have a pirate themed wedding. It started out kindof as a joke because my then fiancee and sister suggested a renaissance wedding because we both like going to refaires. I decided that I didn't want to wear tights so I said lets run off and be pirates. Everything just kindof grew from there. That's how I discovered NQG and they got me in touch with Captain Sinbad of the Mekka II, who sent me a copy of the wedding vows he uses to marry people on his ship. I started doing alot of research into piracy in the Charleston area during the year 1698 which was time time period we chose instead of 1998 the time period we were at. At first we didn't think many people would show up dressed in costume period or not, but to our surprise once people found out more about what we were doing more people showed up in costume than not. It didn't matter to us if it was period,flashy, renfairish or what ever, what mattered was that people dressed up and came and had a great time. And, I didn't have to do the Hokey-Pokey, the Macareana, or that damn Chicken Dance! One because the band mainly played Irish folk music which fits in in just about any

time frame, or maybe because when I asked them not to play those songs I was in full gear with my sword half drawn. To this day someone will still come up to my wife or me and comment about the wedding.

I guess what I'm trying to say in my usual long and roundabout route is if the event is for fun go as whatever you please and have fun. If the event is to really educate and inform and your there as a teacher then by all means strive for authenticity. Just rember history can be a tricky subject. What was worn and used in one country may not have be used in another and just because you have not seen something in a book or a museum does not mean it didn't exist. Clothes were made to be worn not saved. Tools, sword, knives, pots ,pans, ect.. were passed down from generation to generation. They could have been reworked repaired or recycled. Remeber people back in time especially the further back you go did not live in our use and throw away world. So the idea of being truely period can be a very tricky subject to try and lecture( or in the case of period nazis) preach about. Nuff said sorry if I rambled on to long.

[Capt. Flint]

Interesting topic Hawkyns. I try my best to do re-enacting acurately. I dress the part as real as I can ( that my funds will allow) My weapons are real. I do not carry show pieces or wall hangers. Now obviously my swords are not sharpened and I don't attempt to actually kill my oponent. But, my guns are real and I can hit my target. My swords are real and I do know how to use them. I have done events that range in time from 1100 to 1800. I have dressed the part of nobleman, working class, full armor swordsman ( NO foam sword ) to casual pirate and merchant capt. I say that whatever anyone chooses to do, have fun. Just remember to respect the next person and give them credit for whatever type of character they dress as. There are those who love to play fantasy. While in a way we all are doing that, deep fantasy is just not my thing. But, I think it's great for those who want to do it. Either way. I think it should depend on what type of event and who is running it. Just a few thoughts from Flint...... The Capt.

[Matty Bottles]

Pirraps I'm not looking 'ard enough (Hell, I KNOW I'm not looking 'ard enough), but it seems to be as tho' there be a dearth o' reliable patterns for the 'inbetween' periods. I mean, I can find what I hope are historical patterns (as opposed to costume patterns, which might take short cuts and may not be all that historical) for Sea Dog Age, and the Golden age insofar as it overlaps with colonial dress, but I for the life of me don't know where to go for a historically accurate rig for, say, 1675. Like I said, maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I would like to be as accurate as possible, and an older anachronism is always more forgivable than one from the future. I'm really just getting started, so I just try to look good. But it seems for some of these events, if they're set around a specific time frame, you'd want to match the time. Of course, seeing how expensive this hobby can be, I can't believe anyone could honestly expect someone to skip an event because of the spector of anachronism. The space-time continum doesn't hang in the balance, no matter how excited some people might get over variances in dress.