Love of Lack Thereof

[depinux]

(Well, this used to be an old post on another message board I used to frequent years back. I figured since I rarely go there any more why not try to start one here?.)

Feel free to tell us anything about your love ( or lack thereof) lives, be it good or bad. Perhaps we can use this as a means for 'guidance' for those who aren't quite so learned in the relationship business (me).

-----------

There is this girl I work with, we flirt like no tomorrow, ha ha. So last Thursday I go up to her and ask her to a movie..she stonewalls the crap out of me and it ends in 'Go home Mike' ha ha I get quite the laugh about it now, but man that night wasn't so fun, especially since I didn't have any rum in the house. Alas. The only reason I asked is because I learned she broke up with her boyfriend sometime last week and she didn't seem too shaken up by it. Of course this has to happen just as work is about to end, typical with me. Ha ha. I don't know where to proceed with this to be honest, should I ask her out again, just let it be, or what.

- Mike

[Lady Alyx]

There are some loose ends in your story first of all...first we hear you asked her out...and then you say she says go home...what happened in between...what do you mean stonewall ya...that means she did not go out with you and did not intend to. I would leave it alone, unless you want to get hurt again. I would wait and see what she does and how she reacts for a long time first. Or just get it out of the way and ask her straight out.

[Red-Handed Jill]

Also, if she broke up with her boyfriend last week, it might be a wee bit early to be asking her out on a date. You say she didn't look as though she was too broken up about it, but I'm willing to bet her friends or female co-workers can say differently.

[Patrick Hand]

All women are all !@#$%s.......

and

All men are all !@#$%s......

Just depends on who has drank more, and what sex they are when they are complaining.......

The love O' me life...... right now it be me rum.....or beer...... cool thing bout both O' them is that neither one O' them gets jellous if I want th' other...... ("Beer is better than Women".... fun, silly song by Axel the Sot....)

Right now, my love life is non-extant.... zip...nothing...nada..... (well other than me rum an' beer )

I ain't going to hold me breath till "it" happens.... just continue doing wot I like doing......

(insert dirty joke about having hands here)

I just figure that God has a really twisted, warped sence of humor..... as soon as she gets done laughing at me, it should get better.........

(but I ain't holdin' me breath till that happens eaither.........)

[PyratePhil]

Ignore her and become a monk.

Trust me - it's much less painful.

[oderlesseye]

don't know where to proceed with this to be honest, should I ask her out again, just let it be, or what.

If you place value on the job/position you enjoy now,

Dating a co-worker is not the wisest thing to do. Think about it...

As for me Eye will be celibrating me 8th anniversary latter this month.

[Christine]

Love is so over-rated! Best thing to do is to become friends with someone, but both agree not to let your feelings ruin anything. Just have fun and don't let stupid things like commitment or love ruin things.

[Patrick Hand]

Love is so over-rated!

yah..... lust is cool.... if it develops into love..... that's cool also.....

But we have this entire pile of (something) that sells sappy songs.... telling you how to live your life..... <in a high falsetto> "OH this is the love of my life... the one true love...."

I'll stick with falling in lust first... if it develops into love...cool.... if not...cool.....

[LongTom]

Love is so over-rated!  Best thing to do is to become friends with someone, but both agree not to let your feelings ruin anything.  Just have fun and don't let stupid things like commitment or love ruin things.

Whatever floats yer frigate, though I suspect my sons might disagree about the importance of commitment and love.

Were't I had money for all my joys

And leisure hours to spend the while,

There's a lady fair and two fine boys

Who sorely have my heart beguiled,

Her rosy lips, their two brown heads,

I own, they have my heart in thrall,

So fill to me the parting glass,

Good night and joy be with you all.

depinux, I agree with the others about it being too soon, and dating in the workplace being risky. If things go south, you may find yourself in a situation you wish you hadn't started in the first place.

Flirting is a game, and it's is hard to tell peoples' intentions when they are playing it. It could be that she is flirting heavily with you as a symptom of her relationship problems with her boyfriend (meaning, at this point, trying to feel better about being attractive in the face of breaking up with him). It could be she was uncomfortable being put on the spot in front of others.

But it's probably too soon in any case.

[Christine]

Love is so over-rated!  Best thing to do is to become friends with someone, but both agree not to let your feelings ruin anything.  Just have fun and don't let stupid things like commitment or love ruin things.

Whatever floats yer frigate, though I suspect my sons might disagree about the importance of commitment and love.

True, this is not for everyone. But it works for him and I. My guyfriend and I have lasted longer than most people who've been married. It's something we both wanted. He has been married before and has been burned more than once by other women. He got fed up with it. Me, I don't want to end up like friends of mine or family members. Getting hurt, getting divorced and so on. So, it was combination of he didn't want to get hurt again and I never wanted it to happen in the first place. There is love there to some degree, but we just don't let it take over and ruin a good thing.

[Red-Handed Jill]

Well, the saying "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" came from somewhere... And it seems that quite a few folks agree with it. Whatever floats your frigate - if everyone was the same, this planet would be awfully boring!

I'm all in favour of love. Sure, there's the risk that you might get hurt but the rewards are worth it, at least for me.

[Christine]

if everyone was the same, this planet would be awfully boring!

I dunno, a world where no one gets divorced because they just stayed together with their lover instead.....sounds kind of nice actually.

There's that other saying that goes, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it." When 2 people are happy together why do they need to change anything? Can't they just be together and enjoy themselves as is? No spoken commitments or vows, just be together.

[Lady Alyx]

sigh, if only everone followed the golden rule there would be more love and respect.

"Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself"

[LongTom]

Well, the saying "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" came from somewhere...

That reminds me of what I want as an epitaph on my tombstone:

"Better Late Than Never"

Seriously, I meant no disrespect for Christine's choice of how to live her relationship, even if my reasons for thinking differently about it seem fundamental to me. (operative words: to me.) There are many ways of being in the world.

Whatever floats your frigate - if everyone was the same, this planet would be awfully boring!

Sounds to me like Jill is saying more or less the same thing.

[Christine]

Seriously, I meant no disrespect for Christine's choice of how to live her relationship, even if my reasons for thinking differently about it seem fundamental to me.  (operative words:  to me.)  There are many ways of being in the world.

Whatever floats your frigate - if everyone was the same, this planet would be awfully boring!

Sounds to me like Jill is saying more or less the same thing.

I didn't see it as disrespect at all. I know that not everyone agrees with the way I view love and handle my relationship. I've been told many a time that I should just get married and be done with it, instead of just being together for almost 15 years. But the same people who tell me this have their own problems. Their marriage had fallen apart (or they're just not happy in their marriage), relationships are not going well, their children are driving them up the wall and so on.

In the end, everyone is going to do things their own way.

[Patrick Hand]

I knew a couple ...

They had been living together for a few years, so they decided to get married....

It didn't work.... basicaly the guy said he couldn't help it... but he was very possesive of "His Wife".... and that isn't how he wanted to treat her....

so they got a divorce, and continured to live together happily....

That may not make a lot of sence, but it worked for them......

[Sebastien Auguste Benoit]

I've always liked this quote:

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive?

Love is everything it's cracked up to be.

That's why people are so cynical about it.

It really is worth fighting for,

being brave for, risking everything for.

And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything,

you risk even more.

~ Erica Jong

[Christine]

I knew a couple ...

They had been living together for a few years, so they decided to get married....

It didn't work.... basicaly the guy said he couldn't help it... but he was very possesive of "His Wife".... and that isn't how he wanted to treat her....

so they got a divorce, and continured to live together happily....

That may not make a lot of sence, but it worked for them......

Sounds like a friend of mine's mom and her long time boyfriend. My friend lost her father at a young age and her mom eventually started dating again. She found this guy and was so happy with him. Now, I met my friend in freshman year of high school, 1991. Her mom and boyfriend had been together for about 8 years. By the end of her senior year they had let other friends talk them into getting married. They figured since they've been together for a total of 12 years they should marry......big mistake. The marriage lasted less then 2 years. It was not the same as before. They ended up divorcing, but then staying together anyway. They realized they were fine just as they were. There was no reason to go change anything.

I look up to Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn, their relationship has really stood the test of time without being married. They have been together since 1983. And I love the answer Kurt has given as to why he and Goldie won't marry, ""If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Red-Handed Jill]

It seems to me there are a couple of debates going on here: One is the love or to not love debate and the other is the marriage debate.

These are two totally different matters, since you can have either of them with or without the other. You can love someone and have a very happy common-law relationship like Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn (and me and Jack, coincidentally enough.) They are right - this works very well for them and I'll bet a lot of folks look at their relationship as an inspiration. I certainly do. For other folks, marriage is the epitome of love and commitment and there are lots of folks who have been married for awhile and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, or close to it.

Then there's the love debate, which I think is how this discussion started. You've got the "love isn't worth getting hurt" group and the "love is more than worth the risk" group. I'm in the second group, in case that wasn't blindingly obvious. I've been hurt before, but it's not in me to guard my heart to avoid getting hurt again.

[Christine]

It seems to me there are a couple of debates going on here: One is the love or to not love debate and the other is the marriage debate.

These are two totally different matters, since you can have either of them with or without the other. You can love someone and have a very happy common-law relationship like Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn (and me and Jack, coincidentally enough.) They are right - this works very well for them and I'll bet a lot of folks look at their relationship as an inspiration. I certainly do. For other folks, marriage is the epitome of love and commitment and there are lots of folks who have been married for awhile and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, or close to it.

Then there's the love debate, which I think is how this discussion started. You've got the "love isn't worth getting hurt" group and the "love is more than worth the risk" group. I'm in the second group, in case that wasn't blindingly obvious. I've been hurt before, but it's not in me to guard my heart to avoid getting hurt again.

Love is a tricky thing and if not careful you will get hurt. This is why I chose the safe way to handle it. With my best guyfriend, there is love, but we're just careful with our feelings to not let it ruin what we have. We don't live together so it can't be considered common law. He has his space and I have mine. I still think tho we must doing something right to have lasted almost 15 years. It's why I don't see any reason to change things.

It seems quite rare these days to have a happy marriage. My aunt and uncle have been married since 1991, will be together til death parts them, but are they happy? No, not really. My uncle just does what my aunt tells him to do. My aunt likes to complain a lot. The only really good marriages I know of are the older generation. When people actually stayed married and were actually happy. Not pretend to be happy just to stay married or for the sake of the children. Marriage is not meant to be taken lightly. It's something both people must really want and realize it's not all going to be roses. It's also about compromise, not where one spouse controls the other. To those who can actually make it work and where both people are completely happy, then more power to them.

[LongTom]

The concept I'm having difficulty with is the idea of love ruining everything. I can see a bunch of other things that can creep in there when the feelings start getting deeper and more intense -- things like jealousy, mistrust, broken promises -- but those things aren't love. Betrayal ruins everything. Love doesn't.

I'm not familiar with how people who live together "without benefit of marriage" conduct their lives or how they describe the depth of the feelings they have for each other. (there are probably as many variations on the theme as there are couples.) For me there is a certain intensity of feeling, of wanting to be with this person, before I would consider making a household together (or for that matter, be physically intimate on a regular basis, which I find to intensify the bond), and that level falls well within the boundaries of what I would call "love." Once I'm in that deep, I am potentially prey to those hard feelings anyway. Christine, what do you and your guy do to make sure that doesn't happen?

[Jacky Tar]

No such thing as common law marriage in California, Christine. So, live t'gether er not, makes no difference (as far as the law is concerned).

Love does not always involve a long term commitment, like marriage or domestic partnership. Each person must decide fer themselves, how committed they are t' the other. Sadly, an often tragically, when one person says it's over... it is over.

Is it worth the risk? I believe it is worth it.

[Christine]

The concept I'm having difficulty with is the idea of love ruining everything. I can see a bunch of other things that can creep in there when the feelings start getting deeper and more intense -- things like jealousy, mistrust, broken promises -- but those things aren't love. Betrayal ruins everything. Love doesn't.

I'm not familiar with how people who live together "without benefit of marriage" conduct their lives or how they describe the depth of the feelings they have for each other. (there are probably as many variations on the theme as there are couples.) For me there is a certain intensity of feeling, of wanting to be with this person, before I would consider making a household together (or for that matter, be physically intimate on a regular basis, which I find to intensify the bond), and that level falls well within the boundaries of what I would call "love." Once I'm in that deep, I am potentially prey to those hard feelings anyway. Christine, what do you and your guy do to make sure that doesn't happen?

What do we do to not fall prey of love making us vulnerable? I dunno, we just don't let those feelings run so deeply. It was so many years before we even took things to an intimate level. We knew then when it was time to take it to the next level. But neither of us feel the need to go any further then the way things are now. Neither one of us want to set up a household together or start a family. He's been married before and has 2 kids so he's done all that before. Me, I've never wanted that. Never had an interest even as a little kid. I questioned everything like, why do 2 people need a marriage certificate just to be together? I thought that was absurd! I never wanted to go by what was expected of me. Society expects people to marry, settle down and have children, but I wanted nothing to do with any of that. So, I'm quite perfect for my guyfriend. He tried the marriage thing and it failed for him. When just trying to have a girlfriend he'd find psychos who tried to control him. He knows he has nothing to worry about with me. His parents even have said I'm a perfect match for him. His whole family likes me.

[Patrick Hand]

This thread is getting kinda wierd....

I have never been married, because I have never found someone I want to spent the rest of my life with.....

Christine dosen't want to get married , because she likes how her relationship is ......

And in California (and other States) there are a whole buncha people that want to get married, but their State wont let them...... (gay marages......)

<not just sturring the pot..... but kicking it over....>

If I don't want to get married..... heck.... I don't have to..... but what about the gays that DO want to make a comitment?

Yah.... I know (Bad Patt......) that was not the intention of this thread.......

I just wanna see how the arguement goes from that.......

[PyratePhil]

Christine, I think your relationship is quite outside the boundaries of conventional marriage AND conventional common-law couplings...

You have that other element going on which, you have to admit, changes things considerably.

As for the love discussion, the problem is that often there are expectations - I've been fool enough to have them before, and they played havoc with my head. Since I changed my thinking around I've been a lot...not happier...let's just say "safer".

My main concept is that everyone changes constantly - you never know when you or your partner will "fall out of love". If you're enmeshed in the bondage of marriage, you'll have a hard time getting out - legally and emotionally. The Kurt and Goldie thing is great if you can pull it off, and if there IS a time for splitting, at least the legal troubles are minimized (unless those damn palimony suits are brought up again).

Patrick - and WHY do the gays want to be married? I don't follow that whole debate at all, so the reason is probably right in front of my nose. Could it be because they want the tax and medical plan benefits that married couples have? Are they fighting for equality?

Or are they just being stupidly stubborn, when they could just be living together and making the most of it without broadcasting their revolutionary zeal?