About James Norrington

[Caraccioli]

Ok, the topic with my post about Norrington got locked and oderlesseye actually sent me a pm about my post because he wanted to comment on it, so I'm starting a new post. Here's selected bits of the original post:

By Neptunes footstool I bet POTC3 will kick arse! Even if zeye have to see it more than once and I will!

I hope so. Even knowing what was coming I was disillusioned with my re-watching of POTC2. I really hope that bring back the cool bit parts for the character actors. It is sorely missing (other than selected members of Jack's crew, of course).

Although Norrington just rocks. You guys can say what you want about Barbossa, but he's pretty shallow as a character. Norrington has the potential to be the most 3D character of them all. (I hope they take advantage of this giving us more of the down-and-dirty Norrington in 3. Although I have a slightly bad feeling about the odds of this actually happening... They need to watch the BSG TV show and see how to give characters levels, shading and Deppth...)

[Caraccioli]

And here is the pm that oderlesseye sent me (which, since he wanted to post it, I feel comfortable doing so here):

Although Norrington just rocks. You guys can say what you want about Barbossa, but he's pretty shallow as a character. Norrington has the potential to be the most 3D character of them all. (I hope they take advantage of this giving us more of the down-and-dirty Norrington in 3. Although I have a slightly bad feeling about the odds of this actually happening... They need to watch the BSG TV show and see how to give characters levels, shading and Deppth...)

I wanted to reply to your opinion on Norrintons Character that If they do give us more on him I just hope it's not in the "Lost" tv show fashion. I hope they simply visit facts and not so much his past.

[Caraccioli]

To which I pm replied (and now reply to anyone on the great wide web):

Actually, I just want to see him slide from being a prig (as he was in the first film) to being cunning and wily and playing the system. That would be cool.

(The best part of the second film for me was that Norrington became an interesting character. Everyone else is just continuing in the same vein as they were before.)

*Whew* Now I gotta go rest some.

[Ransom]

When Norrington made his entrance in DMC, I was totally blown away. I couldn't believe what a transformation he'd gone through. I liked his character in the first movie, but I loved it in the second. He seems to be the only character to be plotting and thinking, instead of reacting. Although, I guess Jack always has some kind of convoluted plan going on in his brain.

Bottom line, I am looking forword to seeing how Norrington fares in the third movie, and find myself rooting for him to get his career back and tell "Lizzy" to take a hike.

[LongTom]

Of course, we will have to see him repent of selling his soul to the evil corporation, in some fashion. Otherwise the "real bad guys" win.

But it's an interesting path he has to tread. On the one hand, he has a perfectly legitimate (societal) interest in the suppression of piracy. On the other, absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is pretty clearly personified in the form of the East India Company man (whose name I forget at the moment). To which league of evil will he ally himself in the end? Anarchic rogues, or despotic tyrants? Or can he walk a middle ground that thwarts them both?

(Sheesh, I can't believe I just wrote that about an adventure flick.)

[Hester]

Hmmm.... more dirty, bad-boy Norrington?

Yes, please!

[Caraccioli]

He seems to be the only character to be plotting and thinking, instead of reacting. Although, I guess Jack always has some kind of convoluted plan going on in his brain.

Good point! (That also explains to me an alternative reason why I might like him better than the other characters.) Very astute.

As for Jack...I think Jack's planning is more like anti-planning and playing the events of the moment. It's not reacting, per se, because he has a goal, but the goal is the only important thing to Jack. The means (which would involve more extensive mental cognition - ie. planning) are irrelevant.

Actually, I respect this sort of animal cunning immensely. I believe it is a huge part of the reason I liked the first film so much. See, I think some people just walk somewhat numbly through life without observing the underlying structure of things at all. People (real people) like the Jack character can see the structure, but don't care much about it - they just want to play the system, either to their advantage or just for the fun of playing it.

"We are game-playing, fun-having creatures, we are the otters of the universe." -Richard Bach

"I gotta work on my game." -Boon

"No, no, no, don't think of it as work. The whole point is just to enjoy yourself." -Otter

[Now, having said all that, I find I am usually diametrically opposed in personality to the character of Jack. And Otter. Who is basically the same sort of personality type as Jack.]

[oderlesseye]

The best part of the second film for me was that Norrington became an interesting character. Everyone else is just continuing in the same vein as they were before.)

Eye had the same experience as I watched the second POTC.

I expect they will build a bit more on the entire theme of one side against the other in epic fashion in the why's and wot 4's.. Norington might be more central to this last film, move aside Jack!

[Christine]

I admit I never thought much of Norrington until the 2nd movie. He looked much better than in the first movie. Was funnier too! I think even Jack Davenport himself enjoyed being more wild and scruffier in the 2nd movie. He said he thought he looked more like an ice cream cone when in the Commodore outfit, lol!

[Matusalem]

Once I saw the britcom show "Couplings", then I understood Jack Davenport much better, even developed much more respect for him. Now he seems even a witty compliment to other actors like Lee Arenberg. I've seen Mackenzie Crook on tv, but I still can't stand Ricky Gervais (he reminds me of too many people I know). I had a tough time accepting the new anti-hero Lord Cutler Beckett in DMC but now he's growing on me.

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

If there be an Oscar fer the most wasted use of a character , this be a good candidate

[Christine]

If there be an Oscar fer the most wasted use of a character , this be a good candidate

Yeah, him and Chun Yun Fat

[HildeKitten]

If there be an Oscar fer the most wasted use of a character , this be a good candidate

Yeah, him and Chun Yun Fat

I absolutely agree.

I would have loved to see more Norrington in AWE.

And as for Chow Yun Fat: there's been made _such_ a big deal about Sao Feng (posters, promo images etc etc etc) and how long was he in the movie? 20 minutes in total? (probably less).

I found that rather disappointing to be honest.

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

I was not really impressed with Norrington myself. In the first movie he is a military man blindly following orders and a single pirate-free ambition, and ends up questioning that slightly in the end. In the beginning of the second one we find that he has lost his commission because apparently he didn't learn his lesson and was so obsessed with getting Jack he wrecked his ship and killed his crew in a typhoon. Throughout, he is always just looking for a way to return to being a "golden boy" and resents working for pirates. In the end he reestablishes himself by selling out to Beckett, exactly in the same position he started in the first movie. And then finally, in three, governor swan is executed while he was blindly serving Beckett. His only redemption was releasing Elizabeth and holding off Bootstrap. As far as I see it, he never changed until the final moment of his life, and I think he had to die in order to redeem himself fully. Not saying he deserved death, but he was such an unchanging character that had he lived, he still would not have learned his lesson.

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

I forgot to add that I do think the character was wasted. Had he been more dynamic, I believe I would have liked him more. The worst thing he could have done was return to being a government tool at the end of 2. He could have made a satisfying pirate.

[The Doctor]

Norrington, like any good Naval officer, would gravitate toward service over self. His identity was locked up in his rank, until the very end when he chose freedom over the contract of servitude. Classic Jean-Paul Sartre. I mourned his death, but I understand it.

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

I wouldn't say that he chose freedom over servitude in the end, I would say that he chose the right path over the wrong path. As a military man he was selfless and heroic to be sure, yet he was unable to let simple thoughts about right and wrong cross in front of his duty. I couldn't have said it better "His identity was locked up in his rank". Almost too much so.

[Capt Grey]

I agree that Norrington's character, who had the best development in the second film, was sadly abandoned in the third film.

And I was really looking forward to getting the story behind this picture:

Taking power from Beckett? Saving the world by denying Beckett what he most wanted? I really wanted to know.

[Caraccioli]

Well not everyone of note who is not a certifiably-stamped "movie villain" should have to turn pirate to be redeemed in these movies... (Although they might have tried, given half the chance. ...still grumbling about Murtogg and Mullroy...)

I think Mad_Jack has a really good point. If you really break it down, most of the pirates were shown to be "self above everything else - including each other." Look at the scenes on Shipwreck Island. Heck, look at any scene where Jack or Barbossa is figuring their next move. This makes for good movie fodder, but poor real world behavior (Oops! There I go again bringing the real world into this. Fifty lashes...)

In fact, I think Norrington as a character better reflects the struggle most people go through. The day-to-day, "what is the best," some good things happen, some bad things happen, now what do I do with them? What action can I take? That makes him a more interesting character to me. If everyone behaved like Jack, "killing off" the parts of ourselves that are even slightly noble and beneficent, what would we have?

(We'd have a world like The Road Warrior, that's what.

"They kill us, we kill them! Kill them! Kill them! Kill! Kill!"

"Be still my dog of war. I understand your pain. We've all lost someone we love. But we do it my way! We do it my way. Fear is our ally. The gasoline will be ours. Then you shall have your revenge."

Fun, fun, fun!)

Philosophy, you know I love it.

As far as the movie goes, I agree with Captain Grey. Norrington could have had a really interesting story behind him. Of course, then would would have had yet another sub-plot to confuse things. (I say they should have ditched the almost pointlessly silly Calypso story and given us more on the Norrington story. But that's just me.)

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

I read elsewhere on pyracy that James Norrington had much more screen time that was eventually cut from the final reel. I think I need to reserve judgement on Norrington's character until after I've seen these extra bits if the come out on the DVD.

[blackbonie]

If you really break it down, most of the pirates were shown to be "self above everything else - including each other." Look at the scenes on Shipwreck Island. Heck, look at any scene where Jack or Barbossa is figuring their next move. This makes for good movie fodder, but poor real world behavior

i think that looking out for ones self is more realistic as far as pirates go. how successful would a real pirate be if their motives were to help others? i never met a real pirate tho so i guess i cant for sure.

[Caraccioli]

I read elsewhere on pyracy that James Norrington had much more screen time that was eventually cut from the final reel. I think I need to reserve judgement on Norrington's character until after I've seen these extra bits if the come out on the DVD.

Ok. (But now we get into that sticky, fan-driven area of "What is canon?" Oh, the arguments I have seen over this (patently silly) question! )

[Caraccioli]

If you really break it down, most of the pirates were shown to be "self above everything else - including each other." Look at the scenes on Shipwreck Island. Heck, look at any scene where Jack or Barbossa is figuring their next move. This makes for good movie fodder, but poor real world behavior

i think that looking out for ones self is more realistic as far as pirates go. how successful would a real pirate be if their motives were to help others? i never met a real pirate tho so i guess i cant for sure.

Quite right. My point was more that Norrington is a better representation of the average audience member and thus could potentially supply most of us a window into the world that Disney created. It's one of those film techniques writers use to give the audience an understanding of what would otherwise be a foreign world. Watch Curse of the Black Pearl and note how much of the environment is exposited through Will's POV. He was the empathetic POV character for the audience.

(Although, as William Red Wake has pointed out, these are not very good representations of pirates anyhow - they actually do precious little genuine pirating. )

[Lady Alyx]

I as well think they short changed a lot of characters in this one...including Norrington...what a silly way to get rid of his character..should have been much more dramatic...think they definelty wrote this one waaaaaay too fast for it to become a money maker in the end. DMC is the best by far of all three now.

It would have been a nicer twist for Norrington to grab daddy Gov and say let's get the hell outta here...and go to the dark side again...lol!

["Bloody" Bill Marley]

lemme take a stab at rewriting norrington's part right now: instead of killing him, bootstrap could have caught him and they could have stuck him in the brig. Later when they shove jack down in the brig, he meets norrington, and the two argue, almost coming to blows. Jack eventually convinces norrington that beckett must be stopped, they both escape, jack steals the heart of davy jones. Norrington swings over to the black pearl just as will and liz get hitched. Close up on norrington's pained face, and renewed fury in the fight. he helps them win the battle, and afterwards a wrap up talk between norrington and jack maybe where norrington shows he learned his lesson about doing the right thing even though it's has societal consequences. better story in a nutshell.