michaelsbagley

M.A.d'Ogge, You may have accidentally contributed to my "persona" development there... If I can find that "Mickey" is period appropriate, I may just use that. (Can I be Mickey Souris? Just to bring in some humour and a bit of my French heritage....(Souris is pronouced "soo-REE", and it means "mouse")) I think we are finally understanding each other.... Or at least I hope I am... I don't have much "stage" or "theatrical" experience, so my views on it are as an "outsider" looking in. And your explanations are helping me get a better view on it. Too m,any years (but no where near as many as you have) of competetive (and semi-competetive) combat has probably skewed my views on "staged" or "theatrical" combat. I think maybe doing a mock-up list (not carved in stone) of those participating, and their combat leaning might help better determine what we should be doing... It sounds like the Archangel Crewe are for the most part all ready (or will have the time to get ready) for a staged combat demo. But if my understanding is correct, the Archangel Crewe will most likely be all fighting on the same side. Not much use having one or two handfuls of guys and gals who are all playing to one convention all on the same side, if all the folks on the other "side" are playing to a different standard. So far as I see it, the list would look something like this. (in no particular order) Name Side Experience or combat leanings Patrick Hand Pirate ? (I'm guessing some or even a lot) Aminjiria Pirate Some? But no weapon Silkie Pirate Little? Weapon? Michael S Bagley Pirate 8 or 9 years competetive experience, currently only has fencing grade weapons for this period Wiliam Red Wake Pirate? ? Captain Jim Pirate ? Elninoprimo ? (pirate?) ? Hauting Lily Pirate? ? Jacobite Pirate ? Cascabel Pirate ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Master Studley Either side ? (I'm guessing some to a lot) Callenish Gunner Pirate ?(I'm guessing some to a lot) Fayma Callahan Pirate? ? (beginner?) Archangel Crewe - All privateers? - Various levels of ability, but able to work together prior to PiP to be more or less solid. Cpt. Sterling M.A.d'Ogge Rats Bastian Deveraux Mary Diamond Others? This list is just from this thread, I'm sure there would be others if I went back through the other threads. Please feel free to cut and paste and edit this list. I hope this helps....

Screw tang or rod tang weapons are fine and hold up to heavy fencing (think SCA style fencing although many other groups use similar conventions as well). In fact screw tip tanged weapons are pretty much the de facto standard within the SCA (as far as I know).... On that note, I'm not a huge SCA guy... I love fencing, and fence within the SCA, but outside the SCA being a convenient outlet for my fencing habit, I'm not a big advocate or incredibly active member. No offence taken at the comment, just trying to be clear on where I stand. For the heavy re-enactment blades (such as Stafire, Armour Class, etc.) I would STRONGLY recomend againats ever pairing a rod tanged weapon against one of those. That would be a recipe for a broken toy. Here's the rub, in the SCA there is a newer sword fighting convention called "Cut and Thrust" or in some areas "Sidesword". The "Cut and Thrust" style tries to be closer to the conventions use by re-enactment battle groups that use the full tanged weapons (such as the Armour Classes and Starfire), but manages only to find itself about half way between heavy fencing and heavy re-enactment combat. My sabre blade is made to those specs, the diamond profile blade is a fencing blade (so is much lighter). "Cut and Thrust" still uses rod tanged weapons, but I don't think even the heavier "Cut and Thurst" weapons would hold up for long against the full tanged weapons. So while screw tip tanged weapons are fine against each other and hold up fine... I wouldn't ever pit them against the heavier full tanged weapons (and of course vice versa) ... I think I might just have to work myself towards a full tanged re-enactment blade.... I was hoping I could use what I had, but it seems the heavy solid tanged weapons are the standard in pirate re-enacting as well (and I don't think my full tanged re-enactment combat safe Viking swords would be appreciated at a pirate event ).... Now here is an item where I'm thinking I may not be on the same page as some of you (but I might be wrong, so I'll raise the point).... I tend to seperate "re-enactment combat" from "stage combat"... It may seem like I am splitting a hair here, but to me the two are very different. Re-enactment combat - is more free formed, and less scripted, and can be (but isn't always) semi-competetive (as far as safety will allow anyways). Re-enactment battles styles also tend to focus more on group scenarios and encourage fighting techniques that are more geared that way. Stage combat - tends to be more one on one (but not always so). Stage combat weapons tend to have a point so they look better on the stage/screen. Stage combat also tends to be based a lot more on choreography, and almost never free-formed. The tips on Stage combat weapons can be pointy, because the fights are more choreography and not semi-freeform like re-enactment combat. Thats the short version of where my mind is... I might be wrong, but it seems as if others aren't drawing the line at the same point as me (or at all). If I'm going off on too much of a tangeant, please let me know. I'm really trying to get a good grip on what others are doing so I can be best prepared to work well with what conventions are decided for when I do get to PiP.

I have enough spare peices to make two bangers.... (see post above, and keep in mind I will be using one of them) My other cup guard is more late 18th or even early 19th century, so it is about 100 years+/- out of period, I'd be happy to loan it to you for practice and/or the battles. And knowing me, I may just end up buying a third blade and handle by that time.... So I MAY (as in maybe, might, possibly, no guarantees etc. ad nauseum) have another spare weapon to loan out. I'm sure there are others coming that will similarly be able to share. I don't think it would be a good idea to show up expecting charity, but as long as the communication stays as good as it has been, I'm sure all will be great.

Mad Dogge's reply all sounds very good to me.... except... Some of us are a little far removed. While many do have the advantage of having groups they see (and can practice with) on a regular (or even semi-regular) basis.... Some of us are coming more or less alone (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here). Rule #28 is so simple and so brilliant, I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it myself....

Fixed, thanks for letting me know that didn't work... See original post for the pics....

Thanks! I am very happy with the work Krieger did on it. Rather than post a bunch of pictures here... I thought I would just post a link to a folder on mySpace with all of the pictures... That way those interested can look, and those not interested can move along.... Edit 8/28/07 - Since I can't get the link to work, I'll add a few pics With the diamond profile fencing blade (including the rubber safety tip) With the heavy sabre fencing blade (no safety tip). Both blades together for comparison.... This was a custom job, so the price on this is a bit higher (or I assume so). I imagine if any sort of quantity was ordered (like even 3 would be enough I would guess), Krieger would probably do a bit better on the price, but that would have to be something the interested party would have to take up with Krieger, I would happily put a word in to Krieger for anyone here so interested, just contact me. Anyway, the blades were between $125 and $150, and the shell guard and other handle fittings came to $125. I'd love to see some pics of the Starfire cutlass prototype! As to your filing the tip down on it, you may want to ask the dude at Starfire about that, I'd hate to see your warantee voided.

Gary Oldman as the drugged up D.E.A. agent in "Leon: The Professional". Ruthless, crazy, and just down right weird.... And as many really cool lines as he said in that movie, I can't think of a single one at the moment. But I think his body language spoke more to the nastiness of his character than any particular line.

Okay, about Starfire blades... The only ones I've seen (and fought against) held up wonderfully. Now all three that I fought against were the same model, but I found the point on that particular model a little too pointy for my taste (as did the other combatants). Half an hour with a hand file rounding off the point solved that issue. (although some may not find the idea of altering their weapon palatable, and it might affect the manufacturer's warrantee?) The picture of the "cutlass" on Starfire's web site makes it very hard to see how pointy the tip is or if it has a slight round to it for safety. Rats, have you seen one? Can you give some more info? Going the heavy (but dulled) blade route isn't the only option (although it does make the most "realistic" noise for combats). There is also the fencing blade route. The sound is crap compared to using Starfire's blades (or the Armour Class or other heavy re-enactment/theatrical blades), but the advantage is, it is easier to do "safely", and for the most part cheaper on the pocket book. Darkwood Armory is now offering curved fencing blades or cutlass blades for safe combat.... But their web site has NO pictures of what these blades look like. Priced at between $140 and $180 for just the blade and then with economy fittings starting at about $100... That would make for a sword that starts at about $250ish... And not look any more or less wrong than a starfire... Or Cheaper yet... Popinjays. They have several "Smallswords" in the $125 to $150 range. Many of which look pretty accurate for the GAoP.... And for a for more sheckles, you could have a curved fencing blade added to that smallsword style handle.... Curved fencing blades.. And for a few bucks more than that (okay maybe a fair bit more), you could easiely get Popinjays to make a custom fittings that would be even more authentic looking on a custom blade. One note on the Popinjay smallsowrds, they are sold with an epee blade, I would suggest ordering one with a schlager blade or other heavier and not sports fencing style blade if you are interested in this. Another alternative is MK Armory, the specialize in heavy fencing weapons (as in not for sports fencing, i.e. SCA style fencing and/or SCA cut and thrust style blades). They made my custom peice (picture below). As most heavy fencing weapons are made with threaded rod tangs, the blades can be swapped out. I have a 28 inch diamond profile fencing blade, and a 30 inch heavy sabre fencing blade that I can use on this weapon. So I think the first thing that probably needs to be done is a group (majority) agreement needs to be made on weapons... Heavy bladed swords (sound, feel and generally look better) or Fencing weapons (generally cheaper, safer, and lighter to use) Mixing the two is a recipe for a heavy bladed weapon to snap someone's fencing blade like a twig. I've done both kinds of fighting, and have no real preference... But at the moment I have fencing weapons that look correct for the period and only heavy bladed weapons for another period (the Paul Chen practical Viking broad sword). I'd love to hear some more opinions from those going as to which route they think best..... Edit - There is also "Zen Warrior Armory"... Their page on blades has schlager and rapier fencing style blades starting at $65 to $85 pending length (no fittings or handle). They also sell handles, but they are again yet another fencing supplier who does not have sufficient images of their merchandise. This web page has a comparative chart for pricing some of the above mentioned items (and some I have not mentioned).

I think Patrick is on to a good idea... But there still needs to be some guidelines as to what types of weapons we allow each other to wave at each other. From experience, people get jostled around in skirmishes, and there is the chance that someone could get pushed onto an opponents weapon (this always happens unintentionally)... As a result of that fact, the metal weapon combat groups I have played with in the past have mandated that no weapon on the field can have a point. I beleive the diameter of a dime has generally been the more or less de-facto standard required for the tip's degree of dullness. Here lies the problem (for me anyways), many (most even?) stage weapons have points. They're usually not sharp points, but a point doesn't have to be very sharp to peirce and hurt someone. I would prefer to participate in the skirmishes, but as someone who has been in many skirmishes, I know better than to enter a skirmish with any pointed weapons. I mainly raise this point (pardon the pun), as one show I did a few years ago, I ran into a wall of weapons I was assured were "combat/stage safe" beleiving the weapons had a degree of dullness to them. Let's say while it was a great rush, I look back and marvel at the miracle that I was not hurt (and I mean hurt badly). The weapons were far more pointy than I was lead to believe, in fact a few of the pike tips poked through my 3/4 inch thick marine grade hardwood shield (I think it was birch plywood). Think of what would have happenned had I not been lucky enough to turn all the spear points and catch the feew I didn't turn away on my shield? Do we risk excluding many because of the weapons they may have? Or do we risk a few excluding themselves (maybe only me, maybe a lot of people?) over safety concerns? I know people hate to discuss insurance, but you may want to have one of the coordinators have a look at the event's insurance policy as to what safety requirements need to be in place for a skirmish to take place.

Okay, Foxe, I can see your logic on the use of the Whydah shoe... Thanks for sharing your insight there! Would the Phip's shoe make more sense? It's dated to around the 1690s... but it may be a better example of an average sailor's (and hence average pirate's) shoe? Article in French regarding the Phips shoe Or would one of the shoes from La Belle, be a better example? Again the La Belle find is dated to the 1680's... An Article about the Belle Shoes GoF, would you be willing to post the sketch/photo/image of the bottom of the Whydah shoe here? Or if there is copywrite issues, would you be willing to send me a copy as well? (for personal reference only, I will not redistribute if you do not want it circulated). Midnight, my appologies, I just re-read your post, and realized you were not asking how the heel was assembled, but how it was attached to the rest of the shoe. Yes, the sole does appear to be sewn to the rest of the shoe via a rand (a rand is similar to a welt, but for the back portion or heel of a shoe... Although the term rand has been used in different ways at different times with regards to shoemaking). The second link I posted in my original post has some picture of how a heel is attached to a rand, but I didn't find that image and the attached commentary very helpful in figuring out how it was done, it took me a fair bit of further reading and picking some shoemakers brains to figure that out.... And I'm still not sure I completely "get" it.

Midnight, These two pages (from the same web site) are the best information you are going to get on the web. Making Some post-Medieval Construction Shoes And Test 18th century shoe. Personally, I didn't find this information enough to make the shoes (and I have seen the Whydah shoe in person).... I have taken a couple of classes at a few SCA events, and I think I have almost filled in the blanks well enough to try making a pair.... Now it is a case of finding the time... and working my way through a few of the concepts that while I think I have, may be trickier than it sounds on paper. Now to try and answer your question more directly.... Heels were made by stacking layers of compressed lesther (hammer the crap out of the leather while it is damp, NOT wet, to compress the leather). The layers were "pegged" together, possibly with the use of glue as well. To peg the layers together, you will need a pegging awl, and some good thin hardwood dowel to use as pegs.... The pegs looks as if they should be about 1/8th of an inch diameter. After the layers are stacked and pegged, they can be shaved into shape. Let me make this clear, I'm no expert, I'm still trying to figure this out too, and the above is my best guess on all the reading and picking at brains more knowledgable than mine on the topic. Hope this has helped. Michael Edit - On nails, my understanding is that nails were only added to make the bottom of the heel more durable.... I don't believe it was a structural thing in the GAoP... In fact I'm not even sure if adding nails to he sole is a GAoP thing or if a later convention (but not much later).

The further east you made it the more likely I would be to show up.... Of course all the usual real life caveats apply as well (work, family obligations etc.).... But yeah, I would be interested in something like that.

Neat stuff! And great pics once again! You also may want to check out this thread.... GAoP Encampment And possibly this thread for tent variants.... Getting tentage Ready for PiP And/Or this thread on the Mercury encampment for PiP The Mercury, 1720 Careening Camp All of these thread have great ideas on encampments and camp accoutrements.

Twill is for academic talk only (meaning have good or at least reasonable proof to back up your points if you post in there). There are what 6 or other "channels" or "sub-forums" in the pub? Talk of accuracy is NOT limited to twill, but is *generally* kept there. Unfotunately there is no ALL hollywood or faire pirate channels. But there is what 6 other "channels" or "sub-forums" in the pub that hollywood or faire-oriented piratical chatter is more than welcome? This particular thread is about setting a guideline for authentic"ish" garb, and not a 100% academic discussion on garb, it's about discussing how to put together something passable for a beginner of living history or re-enactment. As it isn't 100% academic this thread probably doesn't belong in Twill (I'm not a moderator, so I wouldn't have any real say on that though), so what "channel" does one discuss costuming and what you can make or buy to become "aithentic-ish"? Plunder. The different channels in the pub are there to keep similar discussions together, but some discussions fall into grey areas, generally a poster will make a judgement call on a "grey area", and it will be fine, or a moderator will move the discussion thread to a "channel" they feel is more appropriate.

Holy Crap!!! That looks like it was an awesome event! The pics look great! I really hope I can make this one next year. Looks like you all had a great time, and I am glad for every single one of you that made it out! Hats off to all of you for looking so good!

Thanks again Cheeky! I'm not normally big on red, but I do love that coat... Although it fits the other half, and she got more compliments wearing it than I did. I'm not sure if I will ever get to wear that coat again, it may go to the lady, as I just washed it for the first time, and well.... the wonderful red bled all over the place, and now the white lining is pink. I'm going to try and spot bleach it in order to save it, but my hopes are not high at the moment. Oh, almost forgot... AnnaMarie, your stuff looks great! Please keep up the good work! Good job on the photography as well, your photographer managed top capture very candid natural shots as opposed to "posed" pictures.

Although recent events in my life may change this.... I am hoping to be at the Toronto Pirate Festival over Labour Day weekend. If there is an "Adult Night" or "Night of Jolly Rogering" going on over that weekend, I will be attending that as well.... The one that was put on back in February was great! I don't think there are many Toronto area pirates on this forum, but to all there are, hope to meet you there.

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule for stripes, as the evidence I have seen is varied (which isn't vast, as I'm still pretty much a beginner as well). I think if you stuck in the quarter to half inch range you would be good, although wider and possibly narrower would work as well.

Here is a picture of me in a new outfit.... It is mostly historical stuff, although there are a few comprimises (like the bucket boots). Most of this outfit is machine sewn as I was trying to rush to get it done, although the pants and shirt are both hand sewn (despite the fact they are barely visible in this photo). Edit - I changed the photo, as the other photo better shows off the hand made sword belt that I made, as well as other elements in the outfit are better shown.

Hey Zephaniah (and anyone else interested), I met Neil at a reading he did a few years back (I think it was upon the release of "American Gods"), and at that time he confirmed that there was something in the works for "Good Omens", but it might not happen (something about all the right peices not coming together at the right time). So I think that project got shelved.... Which is really sad.... But that also means the project could resurface and finally come to be as well. As for "The Sandman", he was pretty resolute in saying that it would not ever likely happen. He countered himself by saying that he wouldn't completely rule out the possibility, but he was fairly firm in his assertion about the unlikelyhood of it. And of course all of that was three years ago? Four? Who knows what might have changed in that time. I did see on "Wikipedia reference for Neil Gaiman" (for however reliable that is) that a film for "Caroline" was in the works, as well as a film for "Death: The High Cost of Living"... Now if that is true, at least there will be a film about one of the endless, maybe that could lead to more.... I liked the "Neverwhere" miniseries.... I admit I would like to see it redone and done better, but I did like it all the same.

I see no reason why not. As stated in the thread on Twill, a ships medic would not likely be very mobile, so by making yourself mobile, your stepping into the realm of speculative re-enacting anyways.... But I believe it was also mentioned that battlefield medics would be more likely to be mobile and have their kits in something more portable... Maybe doing some research on what the battlefield medics of the age used would be a little less speculative? On the other hand, my haversack is just that a sack on a shoulder strap, and things get very disorganized very quickly in there, which might not be condusive to medical instraments (specially pointy ones, ouch!). A custom haversack that is more compartmentalized or has some other organizational elements added to it could do the job. And guessing that many of the medic tools may be sharp, going with a leather haversack rather than a canvas one might also be a good idea. There's a lot of different ways you can go with your concept....

I have a cotton canvas haversack that is.... oh.... at least 5 or 6 years old. It is not lined nor has it ever been lined. It gets used fairly frequently, and used hard, I am really not kind to that poor thing. But my poor old haversack has a lot of character for it's age.

The button pic (left side buttons) in the first post is quite accurate ~ The only detail not completely shown is the shank, which is fully round. I will post a photo tomorrow showing the shank and a few buttons ~ I did purchase some extra buttons in case of latecomers ~ If there is sufficient interest, I can place another order. Doh! That will teach me to go back and review the thread before asking dumb questions.... Sorry about my laziness there.

Will you be posting pics so that those who didn't order might reconsider for next time?

Your welcome on the tip for the pirate weekend at Great Lakes Faire... I wish I could have been there myself, some good friends of mine were there and I would have liked to be there to enjoy.... Unfortunately other obligations kept me elsewhere.... Sorry M.A.d'Dogge, I wasn't trying to pidgeon-hole the Archangel crewe as being a strictly Indiana and Illinois group, but those areas (and Wisconsin) seem to be the areas where the highest concentration of members live and go to events (although you have members everywhere and go to events in many other places)... Saying you were centered in that area just seemed like an easier way of saying all of that.