Kathyrn Ramsey

Chances are they would not nurse in stays. They would wear what is known as a bed jacket. ie... http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/collage...7&sp=23994&sp=X bed gown, less frequently spelled bed-gown and bedgown A woman's informal, loose-fitting, typically thigh-length garment, with sleeves and skirts cut in one with the body, side seams at the natural side, a pleat or two at center back usually held in place only at the neck, and often a V-neckline in front. Fancier versions could be worn in very informal circumstances by the higher classes (e.g., in one's boudoir), but it was primarily a garment of the lower classes, who wore it as ordinary daily clothing. Toward the end of the 18th century, the bed gown was gradually superseded by the short gown. Examples: Sandby, Paul. no title (view of two earthenware sellers). 1760. At the Guildhall Art Gallery—search for item number 26297. The woman on the left probably wears a bed gown; it is impossible to see whether the sleeves are set in or not, but the wrinkles at the waist look much more like what you would see in a bed gown than a fitted jacket. Sandby, Paul. no title (view of a street entertainer reading a verse aloud). 1760. At the Guildhall Art Gallery—search for item number 26304. Almost certainly a bed gown. Printed Linen Bedgown 1760-1770. Accession number 1972.110. On the Web at the Manchester Art Gallery's Gallery of Costume. ****************************************************** A fashionable mother breastfeeding her baby. Colored ectching by James Gilray, 1786, English. This piece pokes fun at a fashionable society woman, fully dressed for an evening out. The dress has slits across the breast for breastfeeding, before dashing off to a social function. She is "fashionable" because, instead of following the earlier 18th-century practice of hiring professional "wet-nurses", she is following Jean-Jacques Rousseau's fashionable theories of a "return to nature" and is breast-feeding the baby herself. The Wellcome Library. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DN You will have to scroll down the page. ******************************************************** Hope this helps. I have other links on this subject and am starting my own bed gown as I need it for a few upcoming events. Kathryn Ramsey

JAS Townsend and Smoke and Fire. they are both excellent sources. Good Luck

This is crossposted from my 18th Century womens list. I know we have a few that are over in England and Europe. Can you keep an eye thanks. Kathryn This is a long shot but I'm spreading the word. A friend of mine- professional sewer- had her car broken into and a large bag stolen last week. The car was outside her home, (in Northern England) she was just about to go to the Re-enactors fair and the bag was full of exhibits for a corset and stays exhibition:- ( (unfinished, new and used) It is very unlikely that the thief or thieves have any idea of the value of what they have- it is more than likely that they were just thrown away but just in case- please keep your eyes out for professional made stays/corsets (mostly 18th century but some earlier and later) that may turn up on auction sites etc. Thankfully they didn't take the almost finished silk wedding mantua - but they did get the new stays to go with it! and several other friends who had lent their stays for the display will have to revert to old ones for the beginning of the season. Thanks, Judith in England

I guess it all depends on what you are trying to acomplish. If it is for faire then a pair of pants or wrap pants are easy. If you are looking to make womens kit then a petticoat or period shift would be easy. There is a fairly easy pattern in Tidings From the 18th Century by Beth Gilgun. The only sticky part was the gussetts on the shoulder but she walks you through it. And the pattern is designed to effectivly use the fabric. It is also all in squares or rectangles. Good luck

Those are just so cute.... And your wife did a fine job on them I am sure the receiver is going to love them.

I kit when I have to be in male kit is slops, shirt, hose, garters, shoes, simple belt, sword, leather thong, tricorn When I am in "port" I have several that I go between, from 17th century gown, wool petticoats, shift, jumps, stays, cap, apron, belt with knife, pockets, proper undergarments, shoes, hose, and garters.

What could be more fun in February than to go to New Jersey, pray another blizzard does not hit. Come one, come all... If you are Jonesing for an event, any event... don your best Pirate, ninja, faire rig and join us... All the things that are historically wrong and have a great time. http://www.wickedfaire.com/

I will wear men's kit when I am on board the ship, but when I am in camp I am in petticoats, stays, bodice and jacket. I have and still do handle a sword, fight, fire pistol, and cannon all in women's kit. I just make sure that it is wool... too many scorches on the petticoats and shifts. It is a personal preference, but if you are doing this to be historically accurate, then act like a man when in men's rig. If you are not doing this for historical reasons and just for a festival or Faire then have at and enjoy... The whole thing is to have fun the way you want.

I can not help it if my crewe mate cannot spell that well... but he is one hell of a gunner and swordsman.

http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/howto/petticoat.shtml At the beginning of this thread there was a statement made that women that were painted without a cover on thier heads were "bedroom" portraits. I have in my recent research found these and they are most definately not "bedroom " portraits in the restoration period. The articles are very interesting and quite a bit of useful information to be had. Kathryn Ramsey

Michael, do a google search for Cassack (spell not sure) That is what you are looking for. Hawkyns wears one with his sailors kit. Though very soon he is going to need the new fancy coat...

I am hoping for the WIlliamsburg area... Besides having it in WIlliamsburg. there are hotels that you can get for 40 a night ... we had one thansgiving weekend. so it is not as much as you think to stay there... But to walk around a town that is known for history and going into the taverns that would be wonderful... Just my 2 pence

Chole, I hate to disagree with you on this. I Have done many events where I am working around the camp and have a constant group there with me. I have women in danes asking about how I am doing something, I have children wanting to help and more than happy to use a morter and pestal. Recently I was volunteering at Jamestown for the thanksgiving weekend and for the stretch of about 3 hours there were about 40-50 people watching me cook a pottage and talk about the daily duties of the people at the fort all the while there was a gun demo going on. I have a problem with the ones that go to a historical reenactment and can not or will not, more of the later unfortunatly, that will not pull his or her own weight. Even dressed in women's kit I am not affraid to pick up an axe and chop firewood when the men are on tactical if I have to keep a fire going for dinner. I also have men's kit and have to wear it on occasion, but as Kass I am more comfortable in my stays and petticoats. But there are times that dressing as a man is required and no I DO NOT own a pair of bucket top boots i wear proper latchet shoes and hose. No there is not a lot of research on women that dressed as men, but there must have been more than the 2 that we always hear about or there would not be this grand of a discussion on it. They were just really good at hiding it.

Just my poinion here. But there are quite a few Rev War reenactors along the east coast maybe you should contact them for the event and have them set up an authentic camp... But as I said this is just my own opinion. On a side note. they would already have complete proper kit. Kathryn

I know that Smoke and Fire make them for molding womens hats I do not see that there would be much difference. Kathryn

Stay away from UPS... I would suggest going to your local sporting good shop and getting a hard golf club case for the swords and looking into a special case for the musket. In any case if you do ship it stay away from UPS... We are trying to switch from them and I sell tanning lamps and we have more that arrive broken when we use all the precautions. Just my 2cents from experience. Kathryn

BUMP and when and where are we all going to meet? are the members of the pub getting together?

Ok, this is getting to be too much. There are those here that do do this for the love of the game. We do not do it for the public but for ourselves. If you want to do it for the public, then by all means do so. But do not take out your issues with those that enjoy playing the reenactment game with out having an audience. We each are entitled to our own aopinion and that is just that "our's", not yours. And I know many people that do this for the history or the fun, and not to entertain every Tom, Dick or Jane that comes along. There are just differing ways to play you have yours and they have thiers. And lets leave it at that... Thank you, Kathryn Ramsey

I am gettnig ready to start the Margo Anderson Working women's pattern... so that is out for me as well...

Hawkyns here, posting from Kathryn's computer. I've got to tell you guys, I've been up and down on this event so much I feel like a frigging yoyo. I really don't know what to think. I was at PiP in '03 and missed most of it because nobody told me that nothing happened until the second weekend and we linked to the first weekend to take advantage of the TG break. I was very disappointed. Not much going on, not many people, and what there was was generally aimed at the average 7 year old. In '04 we gave up on PiP and went to Fantasy Fest instead, marched in the parade and had a much better time. Last year we got screwed completely by the hurricane, since we'd planned to attend FF again. So this year, hearing that it was going to be more re-enactor friendly, we decided to give PiP another shot. I was looking forward to a period camp in the fort, living the period, and maybe getting on one or two of the sailing ships. Quite honestly, you can have Duval St. at that time of year. After walking down it with a large group of ladies who were wearing nothing but body paint, there's not much that a bar can offer, y'know? I enjoy a drink, but getting shit faced on a pubcrawl I outgrew several decades ago. So, on the one hand, I don't care if there's no public. I do this for me, not them. On the other, I'm hearing much more about non period camping in the fort, which concerns me, since I want the period atmosphere. I can overlook 19th c architecture much easier than someone in hollywood pirate kit. If, indeed, the rules are going to be lax for the people in the fort, then I may reconsider. I think the people should be juried just as strictly as the camps. If the festival is going to be so 'family friendly' as to be aimed at the kiddies, I will probably reconsider. The committee might consider what draws the crowds to FF and reset the festival accordingly. Merchants? It's unlikely that there will be much to interest me. I do my shopping at the Fort Frederick Market Faire and the Kalamazoo Re-enactor's market. The last serious shopping I did in KW was at Mel Fisher's. So I will continue to watch this thread and see where it is going. Certainly, for me to drive down from CT with a period camp, 3 people and one or two cannon, the event will have to have something serious to offer me. Hawkyns

"(Actually, I know exactly what I want to do with my hair. It's just a matter not having the money to do it just yet.) " Black John contact me off list with you want to do with your hair... I am a Hairstylist by mundane trade. Kathryn And I will be with Hawkyns at MDRF....

It was great to finally meet you and Killian, Bonnie...The last 2 weeks are still a blurr in many aspects and the planning for next year has already begun. For those of you that missed it... it was friggin great. I have some good pics from the gun lines and will get them posted as soon as I can. See everyone that is going in MD for pirates weekend or PIP... Kathryn

Julius, This thread that you have posted your picture on is the "Authentic List" , I am not sure what you are looking to accomplish here, but you are carrying far too much and most of which is not period in the least. Now you are talking about adding a boffer piece to the mix. Considering the normal crew that is on this list you have been lucky. This does not belong here it belongs in one of the other threads that does not focus on the authenticity of the time period. But as I have said you have been lucky for the ones that are normally posting have not been around for a bit... In conclusion, my kit is not 100% but I am working on it, when I am in camp I strive to make it look as though it is the year I portray. My kit is researched to the period and the only things that I have to work on is my glasses but i have small wire framed ones that will suffice, and my footwear due to the expence and finding a pair that will go with the periods I do portray. So yes what you have is a fantasy piece... And that is great if that is the desire. But keep it to the threads that focus on that not on a thread that has a main focus of Authenticity... Now with that being said, I am off to Pennsic. Kathryn Ramsey

From the desk of Hawkyns: Aye Dorian, her name is Nightengale from her first combat firings. They were done at Fort Miflin in a night battle. And if you have ever been to Miflin, you know that those night battles are conducted one hundred and fifty feet under the main landing pattern of Philadelphia international airport. So there is hope that Nightengales first firing caused some US Air pilot to foul his britches. Hawkyns... Come by the camp when you get settled to discuss the firing schedule.

You know I am getting very tired of this... We know they were worn, there have been pictures from Foxe and others to show that they were... Can we leave it at that and stop rehashing this over and over again. It is to the point that I do not want to even look in this thread anylonger as I am tired of what is happening. Kass, fine you do not find any evidence of what you consider 'slops' in the GAoP and others do, lets just agree to disagree and move on... Kathryn Ramsey