kass

Oh Midnight, I never take the decision not to buy from me personally! I know there was no jab in anything you said. I just wanted to post to tell you I support your decision. Besides, I'll just bleed Foxe dry and that will be enough to make up for it!

He's still looking, John. Baltimore isn't out of the running anymore. He prefers it from a pure accessibility point of view. The problem with Baltimore is that apparently the hotels and convention centers that are allied are not actually owned by the same companies. So the convention center won't give a discount on hotel rooms. And that's a negative. However, he's exploring other options.

Midnight, No need to fret. Your choices are you own! I know a ton of very authentic reenactors who wear cotton canvas for a number of different reasons -- budget, lack of availability, lack on interest in the intricacies of fibre content. I just sell the stuff. I certainly don't think you're daft for making the decision not to buy it! :angry:

Try weld or dyer's greenweed/dyer's broom if you can get some, Maria. Dyer's greenweed smells like asparagas and weld smells like some teas. And you don't need any special equipment -- just boil it on the stove. These are food safe dyes. Other food safe dyes are saffron, of course. You can boil it on the stove. Safflower is also food safe, but heat kills the dye. So you just put the fabric in with the flowers and let it soak overnight. I've got stuff about this on my website that I referenced above. Indigo/woad has to be fermented, and that's what makes it stink. But there are many, many natural dyes that can be boiled on the stove and smell no different than vegetables or herbs. Some ARE vegetable and herbs. :) As to electric blue, it's impossible to know what Doyle meant in his story, but it sounds anoline to me. They were brand new in the time of Holmes and very popular. But they weren't "neon". I mean, we're used to them now. But compare even royal blue to the colour of blue jeans. If blue jeans blue was the brightest colour you ever saw previously, even a little brighter blue would look neon to you.

Hi Michael, The sailcloth isn't a 2/1 twill. It's got twinned warps. They are pressed together and the weft goes over them as if they are the same thread, creating a plain weave with two warps for every one weft. Not over two warps, under one warp (and so on), like a twill. But props for knowing what a 2/1 twill is! The canvases I have seen are all plain weave, not twills. Twill canvases are typically called something else -- most notably ticken/ticking or coutil. Again, I can't say that the only difference between period canvas and modern canvas is the substitution of cotton for hemp or linen. There are many fabrics classified as "canvas" and I'd hate to imply that modern cotton canvas was the same if it wasn't. I can only say that the 18oz hemp canvas I carry matches the canvas of the surviving sail of the HMS Victory in weave and density. The Victory sail, however, is linen. To your assessment of the difference in look and feel of cotton versus linen, I can tell the difference from look and feel too, and one really can't take the place of the other one well, as you say, Michael. They are just too different. Hemp, on the other hand, is indistinguishable from linen without a microscope or chemical tests. So if you were comparing the same weight and weave hemp and flax linen fabrics, you would swear they were identical. :)

Hi Midnight, I don't mean to answer a question in an obtuse fashion, but there are as many differences within the realm of "canvas" as there are within the realm of "wool". In other words, there are lots of fabrics that are called canvas. They are usually a plain weave, but their weight can vary widely. Most modern canvas is 100% cotton. Period canvas is also greatly varied -- weave, weight, even content can vary from flax to hemp. Sailcloth I've seen has pair warp threads and single wefts. But I've also seen modern canvas with that combo. So it's very hard to say how modern canvas is different from period canvas... Can you find a modern canvas that is exactly like a period canvas except in fibre content? I'm sure you can. But {shameless plug alert} why do it when you can buy period-appropriate canvas? Oops, almost forgot the other question -- when did modern canvas come into use. I don't know precisely because I stop caring about textiles before it happens. But generally all those fabrics that we use today that are cotton but used to be something else (Osnaburg, coutil, flannel...), the changeover happened in the 19th century. So I'm taking a wild stab in the dark to say that cotton canvas came about in the 19th century too. But it could be later. I just know it wasn't earlier because they were still using linen and hemp for sails in the early 1800s.

Exaggeration adds to my hard-assed image, Greg! And whatever differences we have are never personal. But don't worry -- I won't run out of any of the things you mention. Some times of year it might take me longer to get them than others, but cottoned wool, kersey and ticken are now a permanent part of our offerings.

Only sometimes, Jim. Have you read the other forum? Greg and I go at it tooth and claw sometimes too. Of course it could be that he just likes getting beaten up by a girl!

You rock, Pat!

Yeah, but we can't read it, Pat.

Awwww, Foxe... You noticed... Midnight, if you need to see the weave more closely, we can provide swatches for a small fee.

Maritime -- having to do with the sea Historian -- an expert on history

Yeah, John, can you let me know too?

We just fixed an access problem today. Alyx, can you try again tomorrow?

Oh Chole! You're gonna make me go look stuff up...

Not a problem, Midnight. We might even have some for sale soon.

Oh that's okay, Salty. I'd rather understand you than give you the wrong answer. Thanks for the clarification. Have you read the article they're talking about in this thread? It can be found here. The article gives you the complete outfit for common women. That means the working class. So unless you are portraying an upper class woman, this is what you should wear.

Nope. It's not a blend. Cottoned wool is 100% wool with a thick, spongey nap. They think the word for "cotton" actually came from this type of wool and not vice versa.

Well, if by wenches, you mean serving girls in a tavern, there isn't a whole lot of difference between them and other common women. I don't think I've ever seen a period picture labelled "wench", so I don't quite know how to answer.

It makes no mention of what type of linings were used, Midnight. Just "lined". Other jackets were lined with linen or cottoned wool. So I guess the choice is yours. There were also unlined canvas jackets, so you don't have to line them at all.

Depends on the year, Diosa, but most up-dos in this period are based on a general shape of lots of tight curls around the head with just a few long curls hanging down the back. Earlier (1670s-1680s) the curls were evenly distributed around the head. Around the turn of the century (1690s-1700s) the curls started to get higher on the top of the head and flatter at the sides, giving a vertical appearance that matched the overall verticalness of the fashions. I don't have anything specific on hair on my site yet, but some of the illustrations of upper class women show what I mean.

I'm jealous!!! I'll just be at RF2 with Foxe... next door to the crazy folks from Skirmish...

Yeah. Vecelli had this weird habit of making his clothing HUGE. Just his style I guess. It's good for those of us who want to see details of the construction. But it does make it look weird and ugly on people. Pat's outfit is exactly what I think Vecelli saw. It's the realistic version of what he illustrated.

Oh you guys... Hey, ever wonder why the primary colours are red, yellow and blue? It's because of madder, weld and indigo/woad! Really. I swear. Michael, you're right that madder and woad were used long before the Middle Ages. We have ancient (I mean pre-historic) textiles that show signs of madder, woad and weld dyes. They are the oldest and the most prevalent dyes in Europe. It's just that for the purpose of this forum, there wasn't any point in going back to the beginning of time. And while blue was a cheap dye, it was an expensive paint (ground lapis was used), so that's why you don't see blue paint way back when. Kinda belies the whole "if they had the paint, they had the dye" argument that you often hear.

Bela, if you want to make the English Sailor's frock like in the illustration I posted, you'd be better off buying the English Civil War Soldier's Coat pattern (RH110) and making the soldier's coat option without the front opening. That would be closer. Michael, the pants are what the English sailors wore but that was early in the GAoP. By 1700 or so all the pictures show slops or trousers.