Red_Dawn

I asked this on a writers' forum, but while I got some good info on the subject, I don't feel like I have enough info. I'm looking for rude gestures from the Golden Age. The kind you could get away with in a PG movie, but would get you in trouble with your mom if she caught you using them. For example, I know about the two-finger salute, but not what it was called back then. I also know about the bras d'honneur, but neither how old it is nor what it would've been called if it had existed back then. Anyone else know? (If I'm wrong about how PG those gestures are, let me know that, too.) I'm also open to suggestions for other easily described, PG gestures, especially English and French. I'm looking more of the Up Yours variety, but the Neener Neener will do. Thanks! P.S. Yes, an upraised middle finger is ancient. Yes, I've seen it in a PG movie. It just doesn't feel right for a Caribbean-type pirate story.

Were women's scents embarrassingly different from men's? Because I have a few tricksters and Capt. Blue Eyes' "slopped some on themselves or each other" quote is giving me ideas.

Hitman, if that's cheating, you need to cheat with more pictures.

Cool! And ow, that spike looks wicked! Looks like it wasn't after all. Sheriff Arpaio would've made 'em wear pink bloomers under their stripey suits, though.

Saw this on the Daily Squee: a cute rat sweater with one little flaw. It reminded me of this cute little headwarmer.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply the ball and chain was invented in Arizona; I was playing off Jas. Hook's comment about cannonball recycling.

So the consesus is ball and chains aren't period. Thanks, guys! I live in Arizona. You definitely wouldn't want to try dragging a ball and chain across the desert. Well, we only fought one Civil War battle here.

Absolute Write Water Cooler. I'll warn you, it's rather large, we've got our fair share of weirdos, and sometimes the discussions get contentious and/or R-rated. It's well moderated, though, so things rarely get out of hand. Hope that helps.

This is more out of curiosity than anything, but you've seen those ball and chains in the cartoons, on prisoner costumes, wedding cakes,etc. Were they used in our era anywhere? Thanks!

You're welcome, Elena. I'm afraid I don't know of any nautical-themed writing forums; that's why I joined a general writing forum. It has a historical fiction section, though its not focused on any particular era. It's also heavily geared toward writing for publication, and I don't know if that's what you want. I'll give you the link if you want to check it out anyway.

Sounds like I've considerably underestimated the brutality of the time. Oh trust me, they're not good guys! (insert evil grin smilie here) They may not be going to Hell, but they'll be spending more time in Purgatory than they do on earth. (My protagonists, that is; their shipmates may be a bit nastier.) The psych torture thing is chiefly so they can delude themselves that they're better people than other pirates. "Hey, at least we only remove fingernails as a last resort!"

Parrot and Kitty are friends.

I cross-posted this question to the writers' forum and someone pointed out that a character that uses something resembling torture wouldn't come off as good guys (a good point, even though my protagonists are criminal jerks). It made think of another question to ask about psych torture: was it even consider "real torture" back then? Thanks!

Thanks, Daniel! Man, that's cold! Am I sick for finding something cheesy about that situation? Now my morbid curiosity is piqued and wants to know if this fearsome effect involved grown men weeping.

Thanks, guys! Torture by proxy might be more physical than I was looking for, but it's certainly something to keep in mind for pirates who aren't the protagonists. I can see my characters trying something like that! "So you won't talk, eh? Then eat lead!" *pulls out gun he knows is unloaded* Click. Click. "Aw, d___n it! Someone get me a better pistol!" *Prisoner sings like a canary* Classic and potentially cheesy; I like that.

Because having my protagonists de-nail innocents for information is the wrong kind of cheese. Wikipedia has a couple lists of psych tortures that seem doable for the time, and I could think up a few myself. I'd like to know what used at the time, though, partly for research and partly out of curiosity. Thanks!

Now I know why a non-evil crew would abandon someone on an island; because the evil alternative is to toss him overboard during a storm! D: Sorry, I'll clarify was I said. I wasn't thinking the Jonah would automatically be the outcast so much as the unpopular guy would be more likely to be considered the Jonah than the well-liked guy.

Thanks, guys! Sorry about that; I misunderstood your post. Sort of a human bad-luck charm. Good reason for John to keep his mouth shut about his angsty past, too.

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Prior to now, I'd only seen the term on a Civil War re-enactor's and he was re-enacting a soldier. I only know of the Master and Commander connection because I googled Jonah+sailor last night. Still, is it assuming too much to guess that there might've been a similar concept of a sailor whose presense is associated with the ship's bad luck? "The weather's been bad, we b. near died from a case of ship fever, the captain had his #&& bitten by a manatee, and all of this happened after John joined the crew! He's cursed, I tell you!"

I was recently clued in to the concept of the Jonah in my quest to figure out why an otherwise non-evil crew would dump their shipmate John on the first available island*. Apparently, the Jonah is a sailor who gets blamed for every unlucky thing that happens on board that can't be explained by human error. I'd like to know more about this concept as it was in the Golden Age. What could get someone accused of being a Jonah? Was it a common sailor belief? How much would a Jonah's fate depend on whether he was on a RN, merchant, or pirate ship? What more can you guys tell me about the Jonah? Were they even called the Jonah back then? If it helps, John's meloncholic and unpopular. Thanks! * No, it's not a marooning; it's closer to a "he goes or we mutiny" situation.

Sorry to go all morbid on you in the Random Topics thread. Let me make it up to you here.

A little more detail on the dog attack. At about Easter, Jack, my little sister's retriever mix, was sick and wouldn't eat. She took him to the vet and was told he had pancreatitis, valley fever, and an intestinal parasite. They gave her some meds and told her to call back if he got worse, Nobody realized just how bad off Jack was until Saturday night. None of us hold Jack responsible for that night. He was in more pain than anyone realized and was not in his right mind. That night, Jack laid down in the middle of a major walkway in their house and growled at everyone who passed. Sis was worried that he might nip the kids (the 4 year old might've forgotten to use caution around sick dogs and the baby barely know what caution is), and tried to get him to move. He refused to obey commands, so she gave him a nudge. Jack went berserk. He bit my Sis hard, giving her multiple deep wound up and down her left arm and right hand. He also clawed at her leg and gave her bruises. When my brother-in-law came to the rescue, Jack bit his hand and broke a couple of knuckles. BIL finally managed to get Jack secured and went next door to call the police. After the cops picked up Jack and my mother pick up the boys, they spent overnight in the hospital. Sis was in tears, partly because of the pain and partly because she knew Jack would be put down. Just because he put her in the hospital doesn't mean she stop loving him. Jack was going to be under observation for a few days, but when the vet at Animal Control checked him out, he was too far gone and had to be put to sleep. It turns out Jack had distemper, a hard to diagnose disease. We're all hurting inside. He wasn't smartest or prettiest dog, but he was friendly and goofy, almost overly affectionate, and we loved him. His change of personality was horrifying. Little Sis' boys are taking it calmly. I haven't seen my stepniece since Easter, so I don't how she's holding up (she was at her mother's house that night, fortunately). My other nephew cried when he heard Jack was dead. His sister didn't say much, but she didn't want us to talk about Jack around her.

My family needs some hearty prayers right now. First of all, my divorced sister has to go to court Friday to fight for her kids. They needs prayers for health, sanity, safety and success. Second, my little sister and her husband were attack by their dog Saturday. Fortunately, none of their kids were hurt, though I think Liam may have seen part of it. I might give more details later. They're out of the hospital and should recover. They're shaken, though, and could use prayers for their mental and physical recovery. Thank you.

The touching story of Joe, the All-Terrain Bunny, complete with cute video.

I had to think about this a while, but I think Snoopy would win. If I recall correctly, both of them tended to crash a lot, but at least Snoopy was getting shot down by the infamous Red Baron. Muttley, despite having backup, was getting pwned by a pidgeon.