Tall Paul

Thanks for the info Tall Paul. Now that I am focusing on the 1640s to 88, it's good to know how the baldric fits in. I have a really nice one but haven't used it much when I was doing GAoF.

-- Hurricane

1640's to 88, I would suggest that you narrow your time window a little bit Hurricane. During that timeframe, mens costumes underwent significant changes. At the start of that period, men were wearing short doublets with baggy breeches, and by the time you reach the 1680's, the long coats and waistcoats that typify the early 18th Century had come in.

I would suggest that you do a bit of research and find what decade of the 17th century matches the costume that you have or intend to get.

in a previous post you commented

the baldric interfers with an open coat, keeping it from hanging correct (at least for me) and constantly getting caught on the buttons.

If you ar dressing for this earlier period, instead of leaving your outer garment un-buttoned, or partially buttoned to the waist, as you would with a modern garment, only button the top two or three buttons, leaving the rest of the coat hanging open.

It looks strange to modern eyes, but I have seen it enough times in period pictures to believe that this is how they overcame this particular problem. it chould work for costumes cut from the start of the century to around the 1660's/1670's give it a try anyway.

As ever, I hope that this helps.

Tall Paul

I am afraid that what you see is what you get on that site. I suppose that you could try a few googles and se if anyone has transcribed it.

If you have any luck please let me know.

Paul

How about a cookbook from 1705?

It took some finding because my origional link no longer worked due to the website changing its system since 2002 when I first came across this volume.

but here is a website facsimile containing a multitude of recipes. You will need to study the index carefully as it appears to contain food recipies and medicines listed alternately. This is because the book is written with Recipies from the front, and medicines from the back.

Er......

The easy thing to do is to cut-and-paste the summery from the website.

Summary: Recipe book containing medical and cooking recipes. Recipes for cooking are written from front to back; medical recipes comprise the larger section and are written from back to front with book reversed.

Contains a table of contents for each section.

A number of recipes are attributed to named individuals.

here is the link.

http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/codex...orkID=43&Page=1

I have tried to attach a link to the information page for this manuscript, but because the entire website is search generated, each url is unique and attempting to post ut causes it to revert to a search engine.

So the best I can do is give you a link to the homepage, and a fwe keywords that may help.

http://www.library.upenn.edu/

Author = Petre, D.

Subject(s) = Cookery, English--Early works to 1800.

Traditional medicine--Formulae

receipts

prescriptions--Early works to 1800.

Form/Genre = Cookbooks.

Recipes.

Codices.

Manuscripts

I hope that this helps.

Tall Paul

I went to Project Gutenberg and searched for "cook." As I hoped, they have some very, very, very old cookbookish-type books online.

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10072 - a cookbook from 1764 (I think)

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10520/10520.txt - no date given, but the writing style suggests it's a few grizbillion years old.

And here's their home economics category...

http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/loccs/tx

Hopefully, that'll net you a few recipes. :)

The second book listed,

"http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10520/10520.txt - no date given, but the writing style suggests it's a few grizbillion years old."

is one of three chapters from a book called "The Queens closet Opened"

This section , "The compleat cook", Consists of recipies.

The other two sections, "The Pearl of Practice", And "A Queens delight" cover Medical Remadies and confections respectivly.

The Book was published in 1655 (During Cromwells rule), and claims to be a collection of the recepies used in the Royal Kitchens if King Charles I.

Feeding Nelson's Navy... page 38:

" ...all ships were supplied with fishing tackle which they were meant to use when oppertunity permitted and when 'in a place fish fish could be had'. The resultant catcth was first offered to the sickbay and the remainder shared out among the crew , on a rota system if necessary. The fish was considered to be a free extra item not a substitute for anything else"

Thanks for that Red, Funny enough, I was considering buying a copy of feeding Nelsons Navy only yesterday.

Reading your quote has rung a bell, I think that I recall the reference to fish going to the sickbay whilst reserching shipboard medicine.

On the subject of Turtle soup, I used to live across the road from a family were closly related to the Lusty family (No jokes please) who made their fortune manufacturing canned Turtle soup.

From what I remember, the soup was not unlike a slightly fishy consome soup and came with a small rectangle of turtle flesh which i think was a very pail colour with a slightly rubbery texture. But that was many years ago.

You can still buy lusty's soups, but I am fairly sure that their turtle soup is now of the "Mock"variety

Back on topic (sort of...)

I wanted to get the Loyalist Arms Doglock... but the money kinda got spent.... so now I will have to get the parts together to make my own....

Loyalist arms have started to sell their locks seperately, Their new pricelist takes some finding, their prices for locks are lower than anywhere else I have seen online.

I am seroiusly considering having a go at putting a pistol together as a personal project. The only part that I havn't been able to find a supplier for at a resonable price, is the butt cap (Is that the corrrect name for the brass "Pommel" at the end of the butt?)

There is a very good supplier here in England, Very good, but VERY pricy I would prefer to use something a bit more basic for my first attempt.

Anyone have any suggestions?

A bit of lateral thinking here, but given that black cloth was relativly hard to come by/expensive.

And if it is possible that some flags at least were painted.

White fabric would've been fairly plentiful on a ship, and if not, relativly easy to come by.

Why not start with a sheet of white canvas (Or some other suitable material), and paint everything that doesn't look like a skull & Crossbones (or whatever) black?

Instant black flag!

Tall Paul

I've met Foxe. SWPF 2004.

If you were at SWPF Cire, then we probably met eachother too.

I just didn't rcognise you.

In that case I have met

Cire

Foxe

&Badger

(Foxe & Badger??? )

Something that I forgot to put in my previous post, that has been worrying me, is that so far, I have found no reference to sailors setting lines or nets in order to catch fish. it seems unlikely that such an obvious source of protein would be left un-tapped.

Perhaps it was so common that no-one thought that it was worth mentioning at the time, or perhaps modern authors don't think that caught fish is relevant to an essay about Naval provisions. or maybe I just haven't read the right book yet. But the closest I can remember seeing is an account of pirates robbing a fishing boat and taking the catch as part of their bounty.

Can anyone think of an account of mariners supplementing their diet with fish?

Is there any way of pre-selecting certan factors? Gender for example, The first three names that it came up with for me were -

Jaetty Faced Jill

Old Midship Anna

and

Cask Charlotte

I wouldn't mind, but I am a bloke!!

I quite liked the ship name that came up though.

The Vengeful Locust

Something relentless and very distructive, I like it.

Second choice,

The Vengeful Revenge,

Not so good.

Anyone remember my modest attempt at creating a Pirate name generating formula?

https://pyracy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5523

If anyone can come up with a similar formula that works better, I would be glad to hear it. Although I tried, I couldn't do better tan this one.

Tall Paul

Pirates would've been subject to the same problems of keeping food fresh as any other mariner during the age of sail. foods that would stay fresh for months on end had to be chosen. this usually meant either dried or salted.

The following is the bill of fare during the late 18th and early 19th century, for a sailor in the Royal Navy. But the components are typical of the foods that would have been useable and available to sailors for centuries before.

Monday: 1 pint of oatmeal, 2 oz of butter.

Tuesday: 2 pounds of salt beef.

Wednesday: ½ pint of peas, 1 pint oatmeal, 2 oz of butter, 4 oz of cheese

Thursday: 1 pound of salt pork, ½ pint of peas

Friday: 1 pint of oatmeal, 2 oz of butter

Saturday: 2 pounds of salt beef.

Sunday: 1 pound of salt pork, ½ pint of peas

In addition to this each man would receive 1 Gallon of beer, and 1 pound of ships biscuit (or bread if in port) every day.

The bread/biscuit probably represented an important source of complex carbohydrates, and the quantities, in addition to the oatmeal and the peas, was probably a good indicator of the energy requirements of a person working as crew on a sailing ship.

Pirates, operating outside the law, would probably not have had the same access to merchants able or willing to provide cereal products such as grain or bread, as legitimate seamen. I would be interested if anyone has an insight as to how they would supplement this shortfall of carbohydrate in their diet. (If indeed they did, nutritional deficiencies seem to have been an occupational hazard of life at sea.

The salt meat would have been soaked in water during the previous night, and then boiled. the ration for each mess, (group of men,) was marked by a number stamped onto a lead tag which was attached to the portion before it was cooked. (Very healthy)

One of the perks of the cooks job was to collect the fat that rose to the top of the boiling pots. This residue was called slush, hence the cooks nickname of "Slushy". He would supplement his income by selling this slush to sailors for them to spread on their biscuit, (His slush fund?)

I have prepared several pieces of salted pork, that my enactment group are still using after five years. Between shows, they live in a bag in my garage, and they still shows no sign of decay.

It was said that a seaman eating whilst ashore could be recognised By the large amount of salt that he added to his food on account of fresh meat tasting bland to him.

In the book Buccaneers of America, Exquemelin goes into some detail about how buccaneers provisioned for a venture. I do not have my copy handy, but as far as I can remember, for the most part it consisted of kidnapping a local turtle fisherman, and holding him captive until he caught enough turtles to meet their needs. some of these were kept fresh by turning them onto their backs. the rest were salted.

Elsewhere in the book, Exquemelin goes into some detail about which species of turtle are best to eat.

There is also an account of a band of buccaneers, who when an adventure went wrong, where forced to slaughter their horses, and salt the meat in order to provision themselves.

Remember that Buccaneer, loosely translated means bacon maker, they started out as hunters, killing and preparing meat by smoking and drying it. So in the early days at least, they would have had an insight into preparing meat by this method.

In the Galapagos Islands there is a cave containing the skeletons of many giant tortoises, each with a neat square removed from its shell. The story goes that this is where pirates butchered the animals for their meat.

Are you fishin' for compliments GoF?

Because your site is pretty useful.

Lots of helpful links. and good information.

now you owe me a beer for the plug

Paul

I wear mine over the coat but I'm starting to re-think it. My coat collar seems to be smashed and the lapel doesn't sit right. My coat might not vent properly but I think I'll give it a try!

Just wondered if it had to do with historical fashion of the time.

Hello Jib,

I would refer you to my previous post.

Since during the era when baldrics were worn, and for many years afterwards, (See Eds pictures) coats did not come with lapels, it is probably because your coat was not cut to be worn with a baldric. Without seeing the coat, I cannot possably comment. But it sounds like your coat is of a much later pattern.

Paul

The first illustrations of sword belts appear during the late 1670's, but they do not become commonplace until the mid 1680's.

OK, Before some pedantic git points out that there are lits of illustrations of Medieval, and Dark ages AND Elizabethan sword belts, and so on.

I had better poin tot that what I ment to say is that.

The first illustrations of sword belts used during this era appear during the late 1670's, but they do not become commonplace until the mid 1680's.

At the risk of making myself unpopular, and also of covering the same ground as previous posts. I have to point out that for the majority of the Golden Age of Piracy, baldrics were not worn.

The baldric, was the sole method of carrying swords throughout the time of the English Civil War.

The first illustrations of sword belts appear during the late 1670's, but they do not become commonplace until the mid 1680's. there is a period overlap, lasting less than 10 years during which both baldrics and sword belts appear, sometimes in the same picture, but by the early 1690's the baldric had fallen out of use.

There may have been a slight lag for new fashions and equipment to filter through to the colonies, but given the level of trade and communication across the Atlantic at this time, anyone wearing a baldric by the start of the 18th century would have been considered highly unusual.

There are of course exceptions, for example the baldric continued to be worn by the Scots throughout the 18th Century, but unless you intend to portray a Scottish pirate, in full Scottish garb, this is not really relevant.

During the era when the baldric was in use, it was always worn over the coat, and in as a result, was sometimes expensively decorated.

In the army of the early eighteenth century, all strapping (Sword belts, cartridge pouches, bags, etc, etc,) were worn outside the coat, with the coat buttoned up. To the modern re-enactor, this would seem very hot and uncomfortable, but one must remember that the world was experiencing a climactic low at this time. The river Thames frequently froze over to several inches thickness, and temperatures were much lower than they are today.

Civilians usually wore the sword belt under the waistcoat, with the grip protruding from the side vent, and the blade from the back vent.

But throughout history, military equipment has had an influence on civilian fashion and vice-versa. So, as Ed's pictures illustrate, the military mode of wearing the sword belt over the coat, was sometimes adopted, although I would not be surprised to discover that the subjects of the portraits posted by Ed who are wearing the sword over the coat all come from a military background.

If you look closely at the picture of Jack Rackham dated 1725, you will see that in fact, the strap across Calico Jacks chest, is not a baldric, but is in fact the strap of a cartridge box.

I believe that this picture comes from a series of illustrations from the general history of the pirates. (Correct me if I am wrong here Ed) which for the most part, despite the limitations of the medium, appear to be fairly accurate. So far as I am aware, baldrics do not appear anywhere in this series of pictures.

It has to be remembered that this de-tipping of knives takes place in the context of Navy vessels, where the danger of mutiny was always present. allowing sailors to carry anything weapon shaped was considered to be a bad idea.

Cutlasses and firearms were kept safely locked away, and were only issued immediately before a conflict.

In the chapter on knives in Boarders away, Gilkerson makes several references to knives being used in mutinies and shipboard murders.

"He carried a knife, which he was very ready to produce in terrorem. He was in the habit of sticking it in the deck, and looking significantly at such of his messmates as he wished to cow"

the above is a quote from a court martial for murder in 1778, and clearly refers to a knife with point intact.

the original message in this thread asked

"I read that some Captains made their crew break the tip off of their knives. Does anyone know if this was done durring the GAoP ?"

since there are a number references to stabbing, and the use of knives in mutinies thoroughout the 18th century, and the account of de-tipping knives dates from the 1812 period, which post dates the Golden age of Pirates by about 100 years, I would say that the answer is probably no.

That is not to say that individual Captains throughout the age of sail may not have used this practice in the interests of protecting his ship, or tat knives that had the tips broken off in the course of their use would not have been re-ground as un-pointed knives rather than been thrown away.

Paul.

Before that, we have Pirates of the South China Seas coming out in February, and I have hardly made a dent in collecting the Pirates of the Barbary Coast set.

It seems to me that Wizzkids are getting a little bit greedy. The first set, Pirates of the Spanish Main was such an unexpected sucess that they had to produce a second edition.

Now they are bringing out new sets faster than I can buy the old ones. I still have to finish up collecting the Revolution series.

This could blow up in their faces, I for one am considering giving up after Barbary Coast before this particular hobby becomes too much of a money drain.

(Although I must admit that the Supernatural Pirates angle is a kinda cool twist to the game format.)

Paul

This is what Gilkerson's Boarders Away has to say on this subject.

"...the very few early surviving specimens of sailor's sheath Knives have straight blades with squared off or sometimes rounded tips. While there was little or no use for a pointed knife in a sailor's ordiary work, a wide-bladed knife with a flat tip made a useful scraper. Hence, the elimination of a silor's option to stab a shipmate did not particularly hindwe his knife's usefulness. According to a traditional story, aboard some 1812-period warships the knives of all new handsentering the shipe were inspected by theMaster at Arms, and any found with sharp points got their tips broken off. No documentary confirmation of this procedure could be found, but the account seems plausable in light of later formalization of square-tipped knives in most navies."

The name PiraesRUs has resurfaced on ebay.

see this link.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIRATES-OF-THE-CARIB...1QQcmdZViewItem

I am not sure that this is the origional Pirates R Us, but they have joined TrippleCTreasures, who have been selling Pirate "STUFF" for some time, often implying, bit never outright claiming, a connection with Pirates of the Carribean.

So far, they do not claim to be selling POTC props, but they claim that their treasure chests, are made by the supplier for the next film.

On their website,

http://www.piratesrus.net/

They describe these as exact copies of the props used in the film,

enlarge the pictue on this page a(By clicking on it) and tell me what you think.

http://www.piratesrus.biz/displayProductDo...2&categoryId=10

in the weapons section, they are selling two familiar looking swords as the Jack Sparrow Cutlass, and the Will Turner sword.

Needless to say, they bear no resemblance to any sword used in the film.

So far, I see no evidence that this is the return of the old Pirates-R-Us, but it may be wise to watch this space.

The subject of period illustrations is indeed a thorny one, and the context of the picture is important. for example, the pictures of blackbeard are illustrating the description in general history. (In the context of this thread, the fact that he carried six pistols.

of three images, each shows a different confiuration.

In the first, he has four pistols attached to his baldric, and another two, (Larger?) pistols hung from a sash on his right hip.

On the second, he is carrying all six pistols on an increadably broad baldric, (I imagine that that much weight on one strap would have dragged the whole lot down until his sword was half way up his back.

and in the third, he has six pistols attached to the strap of his cartrige box.

However if you compare the second and third picture, the pose, the cut and drape of the coat, the shape of the sword, the position of the scabbard. one is clearly copied from the other. (Looking at the details, I would say that the third is copied from the second.

there are many things wrong with both of these pictures. for example, the sword does not conform to any known typography of that or any other historical period, the backswept crossguard would make it almost unusable in combat.

Finally, in the last incarnation, the baldric has been removed, yet the scabbard remains in place. Unless the sword was worn under the coat, and is therefor totally unaccessable, there would need to be a belt to suspend it from, regardless of the cartrige box.

One needs to look at the quality of detail, and the context of an individual illustration to judge its merit, but I would not hold much faith in this particular picture of blackbeard.

Now look at this (earlyer) picture of Henry Every.

In this case he is carrying his pistols in a broad belt, with the bellybox attached at the front, without the benefit of a neck strap.

(Also look at the pose, and the body proportions, position of head. I wander what the later illustraitors used as a template for their picture of blackbeard.)

Of the three pictures, I would take the portrait of Every to be the most reliable.

Finally, refering to the first picture of Teach, look at the pair of pistols hanging from the sash. The same configuration appears in this picture of Henry Morgan.

The disadvantage of belt hooks is that they only really work on the left hip, which can get very crowded with a sword and pistols.

I have done a few experiments hanging pistols by their belt hook from a sash on the right hip, and it works surprisingly well, they can be pushed back behind the hip, out of the way. and although they are slightly clunky, this can be reduced by placing the pistols one on each side of the knot. Two does seem to be the maximum number for this method of support though.

I did have a few more points, but I am running out of time, so they will have to wait.

Tall Paul

Tall Paul - Thanks for taking the time to go and look. Give me some dates for next year and I will see what I can do. I dont have any problem advertising pirate meets. Although I dont know what state my signature will be in after a few rums!!

Have you Joined the UKPirateBrotherhood Yahoo group yet?

Someone has just posted a request for show dates, so if you are quick, you should be able to ride his coat tails, and catch the dates as they come in,

There are several big events in the pipeline for next year, but so far, I think that the only confirmed date is the South West Pirate Festival (SWPF)

And No....

.....You sign books during the day, and then drink the rum in the evening when its all over.

"Tall Paul" Adams

Just a thought, and obviously I cant make promises on behalf of other people, but it occours to me that if you asked nicely, you could organise a book signing at one or more of the pirate festivals that are taking place in the UK next year (Perhaps you could offer a tricorn wearers discount) with the correct associated publicity it could help to promote both your book and the event.

On the down side, you would have to help out with the day to day Piratin', and you would be expected to get drunk and rowdy in the pub during the evening.

Of course, another method is to wear them "Johnson" style, that is, according to Captain Johnson pirates were wont to wear them on "ribbands" suspended around their neck. One of the pistols from the Whydah was found with a silk ribbon.

Fwiw, I've tried ribbons, and belthooks. And a combination of both. When suspended from ribbons, if you run, or even trot, they have a tendency to clunk around alot. If you are carrying more than one, they get to be a real pain in the arse.

It was always my perception theat the ribbon method was there to provide a method of quickly discarding the pistol after it had been fired. That the pistols were origionally carried on the belt or in holsters.

Since stopping to replace a pistol mid battle, was probably a good way to get yourself killed, A pirate woud simply drop one pistol and draw the next.

Pictures of Blackbeard, who reputedly carried a multitide of pistols, show them inserted into broad leather loops attached to the strap of his cartrige pouch.

I know from experience, that carrying more than three pistols the size of Loyalist arms Doglocks is very cumbersom, so I am inclined to think that if Teach carried six pistols, they were probably smaller, Queen Anne type.

I have several pictures of 18th Century hunters which show them wearing a cartrge box suspended around their neck and apparently held in place with a waistbelt, in the same manner as one of the pictures of blackbeard, Personally, I am not sure that I would be happy about having a box of black powder cartriges suspended in front of my groin, but there you go.

In the thick of a skirmish I have been known to cry out....

"OW!OW!OW!OW!YEBASTAD! TAKE THAT!"

Or words to that effect.

All of the above, (apart from, perhaps, the last one) none of these are mutually exclusive, and some of the best educators I have ever met have also been entertainers.

Why can't I highlight more than one dammit.