Grymm

http://books.google.com/books?id=ppcVAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=subject:%22cookery%22&hl=en&ei=yr_CTOly2LiMB92LxbkF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=pK6RIvi8M1AC&printsec=frontcover&dq=subject:%22cookery%22&hl=en&ei=yr_CTOly2LiMB92LxbkF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw

A quiet pint whilst out fowling

It's on this site http://www.geheugenv...l/?/en/homepage but The Pub's software don't like the image formats, I save and upload to flikr, bit naughty but 'sonly way I can get the pics on here, never had a prob with any other board just this'un heigh ho.

Put troost in the search, click one of the paintings then click on cornelis troost and that should refine it down just to his stuff.

The site is well worth a nose I went to advanced search and in date put 17** hit go and immediatly turned up some early 18thC Dutch military drill plates, fantastic things like this

And this 1714 image of a poulterer

But I digress back to jumps and stop me waffling on =o)

It's worth searching using the phrase 'ladies waistcoat' as it turns up images that could be what folk think of as jumps.

Ladies 'waistcoat'

also called a ladies waistcoat

From http://www.arizonacostumeinstitute.com/ACI/Waistcoat.html

I'm guessing that Jen means this example of After drinkys shenanigans when she mentions bad behavior=o) complete with drunken fop goping maid a row kicking off 'tween the chap on the stoop and the one in the carriage and some hot wiggy on wiggy action, ah the joys of alcohol

For more Troost http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/troost_cornelis.html

'S by Cornelius Troost who was Dutch, an ex actor and set designer, circa 1729. Yes it does tell a story but all paintings contain an element of artistic license. Troost was a contempererererey of Hogarth painting what he saw but arranging it to tell stories, so there's every chance that these characters are based on real folk, the larger lady eshewing stays/jumps, the widow with widows peak in the background.

This next one, as well as making me laugh alot (Mooning man with face drawn on his bum above the somber dressed religeous types flanked by 'blacked-up' trumpeters) Talso shows a lady with the red neckerchief who looks unencumbered by stays.

Now I'm just guessing here but like I mentioned on 18cWoman " Here in the 21stC we like everything to fit into neat boxes and in truth it never really does, terminology/habits vary from person to person as do details, we need to be a little

more....erm, fluid with our thinking and terminology. Think many manyoverlapping venn diagrams rather than neatly stacked boxes"

Some women prob'ly went without, damn sight easier to work in but if you get to mince around the house doing bugger all then lace'em up tight. There's another pic that I have somewhere that shows the inside of a busy tailors workshop with a woman carrying beer jugs for the tailors wearing just skirts shift and stays.

I fear more than a few of these conventions you mention are what I would call re-enactorisms, us 21stC types retro fitting our morals and ideals on the past.

But hey as long as we talk about it rather than just accept them as truths things and knowledge will get pushed forward =o)

I just priced saffron yesterday, it comes out to around $350 an ounce. Maybe I should lock up the bottle from the Chinese market, it was cheaper there *g*

Pah! We've been asked to source some ambergis (Sperm Whale puke or pooh 'pending on size) for some awfentick 17thC confections and This place in NZ is charging $20 a gram which works out $560 an oz ;o)

Also that term Dutch was used to mean 'false' or used in a derogatory way of characteristic/manners of or attributed to the Dutch; usually as a way of ridiculing them, possibly due to the hostility between English and Dutch in the 17thC. Dutch auction or auctioneer(Start high and drop the price), bargain(Overpriced or shonky goods), concert(a cacophony), courage(false bravado owing to booze), gleek, nightingale, uncle. Dutch comfort, consolation, defence, feast, palate, reckoning, widow, Dutch act(suicide or doing a runner) yaddayaddayadda

Bit like The French calling syphlis the English Disease and the English calling it the French pox

The biggy still used today is going Dutch or Dutch lunch, party, <A name=50071137se68>supper, treat where you pay for your own meal rather than get treated to a meal at someone elses expense.

So as it's a cookpot, not an proper oven as such, its a Dutch(mans) oven.

Ah, that's quite useful. Thanks. What was used to spread the saffron on the bird in the kitchens at HCP? I'd use a pastry brush at home, but it looks like a little wad of something I can't identify in the pic. And using the pastry trick is a good one, especially for pot lids that don't seal well. Will file that away for future use *G*

We bodged a 'brush' from a knackered old bit of linen cloth rescued from the scraps we use to make charcloth.

Ingredients:

a chicken

saffron

1 large handful of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme, altogether now.......Are you going...ehem (or other aromatic green herbs).

Bottle of reasonable white wine

cauldron with lid and sticks or skewers

Sit your pot on it's legs

pour wine into pot add half the herbs

arrange your sticks/skewers in a grid making a platform above the wine

Put the other half of the herbs inside the chicken.

Paint the outside of the chicken with saffron water - saffron strands dried and ground made up to solution with warm water

Put the chicken on the sticks over the wine - without it touching the wine

Lid the pot and seal it with a little dough if you can or put a weight on the lid

Put y'pot on the fire and steam the chicken for the same time it would take to roast.

The herby wine becomes a good base for a sauce.

That looks gorgeous! I'll have to give this a go at the next event. Do you have pics of yours to share?

Eeeep this is putting me head above the parapet but her are some pics of the very first time me and me chums tried it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the early 16thC ;o)

http://www.flickr.co...57605997771339/ It's become a regular at home using a steamer rack and a wok with a lid.

The bronze cauldrens we use at work are fantastic for cooking in, much 'faster' than iron and they don't sadden your food, give it that slight grey tinge that cast iron does, BUT they do need proper cleaning with mucho elbow grease and scourers.

Ingredients:

a chicken

saffron

1 large handful of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme, altogether now.......Are you going...ehem (or other aromatic green herbs).

Bottle of reasonable white wine

cauldron with lid and sticks or skewers

Sit your pot on it's legs

pour wine into pot add half the herbs

arrange your sticks/skewers in a grid making a platform above the wine

Put the other half of the herbs inside the chicken.

Paint the outside of the chicken with saffron water - saffron strands dried and ground made up to solution with warm water

Put the chicken on the sticks over the wine - without it touching the wine

Lid the pot and seal it with a little dough if you can or put a weight on the lid

Put y'pot on the fire and steam the chicken for the same time it would take to roast.

The herby wine becomes a good base for a sauce.

What a wonderful resource! I noticed there isn't anything for Guernsey and Jersey. Aren't they part of the UK? Or do they share a dialect with somewhere else?

Not many speakers left but in both Islands the people spoke archaic forms of Norman 'French' well into the 19thC, Jèrriais in Jersey, Dgèrnésiais in Guernsey with Sark and Alderney having their own , now all but extinct, variants. These obscure Norman dialects made a bit of a come back during the occupation by German forces in WWII as a way of passing info without Jerry finding out.

I barely do English let alone Norman, that you'll have to find out from the Islands =o) But to use a Jersey proverb, "Vielles amours et tisons brûlés sont deux feux bein vite ralleunmés "old loves and burnt embers are fires which can be quickly re-ignited, which if you look at Welsh, Scottish and Irish Gallic can be true about language and dialect if people care enough.

note the editor softwear sucks too, shonky piece of doo doo so it is!

Stupid f'*&%$£ board software won't let me post the other links, a pox on its bits and bytes

Go to youtube look for The Imagined Village 'Ouses 'ouses 'ouses

the other was s'posed to be a joke it was The Wurzels Blackbird song also on youtube and the Yetties was that standard of English folk songs Liliburlero.

This may help

See if you can find Kathryn Tickell & Ensemble Mystical just for the Corn Fiddler/Poem done in a NE English accent, puts the hair up on y'neck or listen to

Accents meld, drift into each other so I'd contest the 'fact' that American English is closer to 17/18thC English than English English apart from the syntax, the way sentances are constructed, that is closer, more archaic in the American dialect.

Put a mixed bunch from all over a country together and their accents drift towards each other and they pick up words/slang/dialect from each other. The Scots emigrees influence on the Canadian accent with oot and aboot is one that springs readily to mind but it's happened to me and others I know.

When I join HM Forces I did have a very Bucks rural accent, used words like ockkerd (bloody minded), called ants emmet, used cop 'old for get or grab( More Bucks 'words' ) baint for isn't but over time it lessened and military slang like tab for run, NFI for not interested plus other regional slang, mardi for grumpy from Sheffield, numpty for idiot from Scotland, drifted into my speech patterns, my ex was a valley girl from S Wales and everytime she went home her accent got stronger then vanished after a week back in Bucks. It's a human survival technique so you blend in with the pack.

Gurt fun though finding all this cant n bolting it into your persona.

Geordie anyone? H'way canny lad, am gan yam.

Y'Ere tis, troy this'ere, gwan gee it a goo.

Here's some Wiltshire dialect words and place names

Some letters were interchangeable such as V & F: P & B: S & Z and so on.

PLACE NAMES - see pronunciation in italics

Aldbourne - Auborn

Berwick Bassett - Berrick (as in Derrick)

Bicknoll in Broad Hinton - Bynoll

Bremhill - Bremell

Bromham - Brumum

Burderop - Burdrop

Charlcott - Chawcot

Cherhill - Cherill

Fisherton Anger - Fisherton Ainjer

Mildenhall - Mynoll as in mine, see Bicknoll

Poulshot - Powshot

Salisbury - often referred to as Sarum or New Sarum

Sutton Veny - Venny

WILTSHIRE DIALECT WORDS

Anneal (nealded) - heated oven

Arse over tip, pitchfalling - to fall headlong

Badger - a corn dealer, so called because he was licensed to deal and wore a badge

Bargain - small landed property or holding e.g. house, garden, land

Batters - embankment

Belluziz - bellows for lighting a fire

Belly Button - navel, as opposed to Billy Buttons meaning a dimwit, fool, also term for woodlouse

Bide - to stay, keep still - 'bide here with me'

Billy Buttons - a dimwit, fool, also a term for woodlice

Blind-house - local lock up with no windows

Brack - to crack, break, fracture - can also mean feeling sick

Brave - good health

Brown - a brown day, a gloomy day

Budgy - moody, sulky

Bulragging - nagging, haranguing Bunt - nudge, shove up, push

Buttery - pantry

Butty - a workmate

Cack-handed - left handed, clumsy

CaddIe - trouble, confusion, disorder as in 'I'm all in a caddIe'

Call - 'no call to be so rude'

Chooky pig - woodlouse

Comical - funny tempered, not well also see Queer Count - to expect or think as in 'don't count on it', 'don't expect it'

Crowdy - apple turnover, apple crowdy

Cubby-hole - warm place, a snug corner

Dab - as in 'a dab hand' - an expert

Daps - plimsolls

Dadacky - ricketty or unsafe.

Dewpond - a constructed pond on the Downs not fed by a spring, river or stream but which depended on mist, dew and rain to fill it (the parish of Imber had dewponds)

Dicky - weakly, ill health in people, in plants

Dimmet (dimpsy) - dusk, twilight-time

Dodder, dudder, duther - bewilder, deafen with noise

Dozey - sleepy, stupid

Drag - a harrow

Drane - drangway, drung - a narrow passage between houses

Dribs and drabs - bits and pieces/odds and ends, in tatters

Drowner - man who attended to the hatches by maintaining the water supply

Dry as a gix - a gix is a dried nettle stem.

Dryth/druth - very dry, a drought

Duckstone - a game played with stones

Dummel, domel, dumble - stupid, dull, foolish Dung pot-a dung cart

Dunny, dunnikin - an earth closet

Emmet - an ant

Faggot - woman/girl of bad character

Fardingale - quarter of an acre

Favour - to resemble in features

Flump - to fall heavily

Fogger - a man servant, groom, labourer ;-- man who took cows their fodder morning and evening - a corruption of 'fodder'

Frame - skeleton

Frickle/Fuggle - to potter about/fidget/worry

Fuckling/friggling - tiresome, something which involves much attention to detail

Gaapus/gawpus - a fool, stupid person

Galley-bagger/galley-crow - a scarecrow

Gammer - woodlouse

Gapps/Grapsey - gape or stare

Gibbles (pronounced as 'jibbles')/Chipples - Spring onions

Gill - low four wheeled timber carriage

Glory-hole - place/cupboard for rubbish/ odds & ends Goggles - a disease in sheep

Gooding Day - St Thomas' Day -21 December

Goosegog - gooseberry

Gossiping - christening;- Gossips - godparents Grizzle - complain, grumble, whine, cry

Griggle -small apple

Hacker/hagger - tremble as with the cold

Gurt as in 'gurt big 'un' meaning 'great big one

Half-baked - dimwitted, stupid

Hallantide - All Saints' Day - 1 November

Handin' post - a signpost

Hanglers/pot hangels - pothooks

Helyer - a tiler

Hike - to hook or catch Hilp wine - sloe wine

Hodmandod/hodmedod - short and clumsy

Hollardy day - Holy Rood Day - 3 May

Home to be called - to have banns of marriage published

Hookland/Hitchland - portion of the best land in a common field

Hooset, Heusset, Wooset - Skimmington ride (public disapproval of marital infidelities - rough justice)

Horse's leg - a bassoon

Hudgy - clumsy, thick

Hurdle footed - club footed

Hurkle - to crowd together

In-a-most - almost

Jack and his team/Dick and his team - the Great Bear/the Plough

Jarl - quarrel

Jaw-bit - labourers' elevenses (also see Nammet)

Jibbets - small bits and pieces

Jobbet - small load

Jonnick - honest/fair

Junk-a solid piece - hunk/hunch - bread & cheese, a lump of wood or coal

Junket - a treat, out on a spree

Kiver - a cooler (used in brewing)

Lannock - long narrow piece of land

Lear/leer - very cold/extremely hungry/starving

Leaser - gleaner

Licket - all in pieces

Lollop(er) - to loll about: lazy lout

Loppity - to feel weak or out of sorts

Lot-meads - common meadows divided into equal sized pieces

Lug - land measure (pole or perch) in Wiltshire can be 3 lengths - 15, 18 or 16 & 1/2 ft (statute perch)

Lummekin - ungainly, heavy, clumsy

Main - good, excellent

Marlbro' handed - awkward, clumsy

Mere - boundary line/bank of turf as a boundary

Mere stone - boundary stone

Middling - ailing or tolerable as in 'I be fair to middling'

Mistpond - see Dewpond

Mommet/mommick - scarecrow

Mooned up - spoilt, coddled

Mop - Statute fair for hiring servants - held in several Wiltshire towns eg. Chippenham, Marlborough, Wootton Bassett.

Moral - likeness

Mucker - miserly person (in other counties this can mean a pal, workmate, friend)

Mump/mump about - sulky

Nammet, nummet;- Nunchin/nunchin bag - noon meat, lunch, midday snack. Lunch, lunch bag

Nanny fudging - nonsence

Narration - fuss, commotion - 'what a narration about nothing'

Naumpey - weak, foolish minded person

Next akin to nothing - very little

Nine holes - children's' game

Nineter - regular scamp/worthless/skinflint

Ninny hammer - foolish, silly person

Nuthen - nothing

Out-axed - when banns were called for the third and last time

Pantony - pantry

Peck - pickaxe, also a measure of weight

Peel - a lacemaking pillow

Pegged it - to run well fast

Pelt - in a passion or a rage

Pigged, picked, picky - a sickly looking person

Pitch - steep place

Pitchin - paving with large flat stones 'pitching' with small uneven stones set on edge (usually on a steep or slippery slope)

Plim - to swell out

Pot-walloper - someone possessing house with a 'pot-well' (fireplace) for cooking. In Wootton Bassett pot-wallopers had voting rights

Pucksey - quagmire (dirty, messy, muddy)

Purler - to have a heavy fall -'her went a right purter'

Put about - to worry, fret

Quar® - stonequarryman

Quean - a woman

Queer - not well, also see Comical

Quidly or Quiddle - a fussy person

Quilt - to swallow

Plock - alog of firewood, just large enough to fit into the grate.

Rag-mag - ragged beggar (male/female)

Rannel - extremely hungry

Raves/Reaves - waggon rails

Rawmouse - bat

Rawney/Rowney - thin person or thin poor and uneven as in manufactured cloth

Reeve - to draw up as in 'her skirts is all reeved up', wrinkle

Remlet - remnant

Revel - parish/village festival also as in Club Feast

Rick/wrick - to twist or wrench - as in a turned ankle

Rhine (pronounced reen) - water course

Rough - feeling unwell; to sleep outdoors - 'sleeping rough'

Roughband/rough music - see Housset

Scaut - to strain, push, to carry a heavy load

Scram - awkward, scrammy handed (left handed)

Shandy - a row about nothing in particular

Shard - a gap or hole in a hedge, generally large enough for a child to crawl through.

ShitsacklShock-shack Day - King Charles' day - 29 May when children carried shitsack (springs of young oak or ash) in the morning and powder-monkey or Even-ash leaves in the afternoon.

Shot of/shut of - to rid oneself of a thing

Shrammed - cold - perished with cold -cold to your very bones

Scag/skag/skeg - ragged tear in clothes - to scag on something.

Skiffley - showery

Skillin(g) - pent house/outhouse/cowshed

Slammock/Slummock - slatternly woman Slewed - the worse for drink

Smart - a second swarm of bees

Somewhen - sometime

Spreeved - sore skin, hands and legs, caused by cold weather.

Teg - sheep

Tegman - shepherd - teg was a Wiltshire name for sheep

Tallet, tallot - hayloft over a stable

Tasker - casual labourer

Teart - very cold, sore as in a small sore cut on a finger, a graze

Tranter - a haulier

Trumpery - rubbish, cheap and tawdry; weeds left in cultivated ground

Tuffin/tuffin hay - late hay made from the rough grass left by cattle

Tump/tumpy - hillock, hillocky - uneven

Tun - chimney or chimney top; to pour liquid through a 'tun-dish' into a barrel

Turn/torn - spinning wheel

Unbelieving - disobedient (as with naughty children) Up-along - a little way up the road (as in 'down-along' - down the street) Upping-stock - horse block

Vag - to reap with a broad reap hook (vagging hook)

Vamplets - gaiters

Want-catcher/cont catcher - mole catcher

Whipland - land measured out by the whip's length when ploughed

Whissgig - to have a bit of fun, to lark about Wisp, wish, west - a stye in the eye

Yardland - Quarter of an acre (a quarter of an acre was a landyard wide)

Yer/Yertiz - here/here it is or your.

Yuckle - Woodpecker

Zammy - a simpleton

and some chaps speaking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeCMmUcJT9Iy

I did have a link to a site that had recordings of accents and dialects from all over the UK I'll see if I can dig it out.

There was a time even in my life when you could tell which village some people came from an' oy spoke pro'er Bucks m'ducks. But I only slips baack into 'er aaaafter a bevvy or two =o)

Do you mean nobody was burned, can't waste good firewood on a witch, swim them instead =o)

The consequences of murdering a 'witch' circa 1751

A site dedicated navajas, or knives in English http://www.couteaux-jfl.com/seville.htm.

They still make'em in Spain

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/gb/infer.asp?ac=2&trabajo=listar&pa=navajas

http://www.navajasalbacete.com/navajasclasica/index.html

I was trying to get the image of the smuggler (from the article in the link from the first post)to come up on here but still cannot figure out how that works. Anyone know the date on this guy? huge bucket boots, two pistols, a hangar and what looks like an apron or kilt-type garment over breeches. I've been looking for the image to try and find out its origins. Any help on this I'd be grateful. thanx.

Bo

It's called A Smuggler by William Heath circa 1830 there is a companion piece called The Preventive Service showing the Coastguard uniform of the same period.

Try here or here actually here would be better as it's all the search results

Man, you just come up with the best stuff! Thanks! I could get lost in those documents for hours!

Looks like a tierce is a type of cask, according to this definition: A cask whose content is one third of a pipe; that is, forty-two wine gallons; also, a liquid measure of forty-two wine, or thirty-five imperial, gallons. 2. A cask larger than a barrel, and smaller than a hogshead or a puncheon, in which salt provisions, rice, etc, are packed for shipment.

From the OED online (I love my library service, with my card number they let me access stuff like the OED Times Online and loads of other stuff at home for free =o)

4. An old measure of capacity equivalent to one third of a pipe (usually 42 gallons old wine measure, but varying for different commodities: cf. PIPEn.² 2); also a cask or vessel holding this quantity, usually of wine, but also of various kinds of provisions or other goods (e.g. beef, pork, salmon, coffee, honey, sugar, tallow, tobacco); also such a cask with its contents. 1531 Charterparty in R. G. Marsden Sel. Pl. Crt. Admir. 36 Accounttyng..ij pipes for a ton iiij hoggeshedds for a ton and vj tercys for a ton. 1531-2 Act 23 Hen. VIII, c. 7 §5 The butte, tonne, pype..teers, barrell or rondlett. 1538 ELYOT Addit., Hemicadia, vesselles callyd a tierce, halfe a hoggesheed. 1588 Wills & Inv. N.C. (Surtees) II. 180, ix tearces of honeye, at 16l. per tonne, 24l. 1707 Lond. Gaz. No. 4337/4 On Wednesday..will be exposed to Sale..about 400 Hogsheads and 10 Tierces of..French Claret. 1800 COLQUHOUN Comm. Thames iii. 136 Beef and Pork..contained in..Tierces and Barrels. 1825 Gentl. Mag. XCV. I. 216 [Coffee berries] closely packed in tierces for exportation. <A name=50252595q26>1886 Pall Mall G. 19 June 6/1 The tobacco..comes from abroad..in hogsheads..in what are called tierces (a smaller wooden barrel), and in bales.

Try here or here actually here would be better as it's all the search results

Foxe, could you expand on the little cryptic bit of info at the bottom of the inventory, and tell us what book or collection of records this came from? Thanks!

Yes indeed. It comes from the records of the High Court of Admiralty (HCA) in the National Archives at Kew. HCA 1/17 is the records of indictments and subsequent proceedings filed at the High Court of Admiralty, 1713-1724. The lists come from f[olio] 163 of that file.

Thank you! Yet another reason to cross that ocean!

Mistress D.

And just down the road is the big house where I work so you could come and look round, if I'm working I'll sort you tickets, if I'm not I'll show you round. Plus in a year or so we may have Fred's kitchen at Kew up and running. It's a wee time capsule, someone shut the doors in 1780 summat and all that happen was people filled it with stuff that they couldn't throw away. Still got it's ovens , charcoal stoves, HUGE chimmney fan roasting range, all mid to late 18thC and I may get to play with it.......I love my job =o)

Just to muddy the waters even more here's an article on bidis the wee Indian cigary things http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/may252009/1335.pdf It does nowt to prove dates but means the habit could've come from India and baccy was smoked in bongs n chillums as well..........man.