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Grymm

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Posts posted by Grymm

  1. It's on this site http://www.geheugenv...l/?/en/homepage but The Pub's software don't like the image formats, I save and upload to flikr, bit naughty but 'sonly way I can get the pics on here, never had a prob with any other board just this'un heigh ho.

    5097996722_2b82a9416b_b.jpg

    Put troost in the search, click one of the paintings then click on cornelis troost and that should refine it down just to his stuff.

    The site is well worth a nose I went to advanced search and in date put 17** hit go and immediatly turned up some early 18thC Dutch military drill plates, fantastic things like this

    5097431517_895ee52002_b.jpg

    And this 1714 image of a poulterer

    5098057028_6a7babcb2c_b.jpg

    But I digress back to jumps and stop me waffling on =o)

  2. I'm guessing that Jen means this example of After drinkys shenanigans when she mentions bad behavior=o) complete with drunken fop goping maid a row kicking off 'tween the chap on the stoop and the one in the carriage and some hot wiggy on wiggy action, ah the joys of alcohol

    5097037637_c0e6a1af9c_b.jpg

  3. 'S by Cornelius Troost who was Dutch, an ex actor and set designer, circa 1729. Yes it does tell a story but all paintings contain an element of artistic license. Troost was a contempererererey of Hogarth painting what he saw but arranging it to tell stories, so there's every chance that these characters are based on real folk, the larger lady eshewing stays/jumps, the widow with widows peak in the background.

    This next one, as well as making me laugh alot (Mooning man with face drawn on his bum above the somber dressed religeous types flanked by 'blacked-up' trumpeters) Talso shows a lady with the red neckerchief who looks unencumbered by stays.

    Now I'm just guessing here but like I mentioned on 18cWoman " Here in the 21stC we like everything to fit into neat boxes and in truth it never really does, terminology/habits vary from person to person as do details, we need to be a little

    more....erm, fluid with our thinking and terminology. Think many manyoverlapping venn diagrams rather than neatly stacked boxes"

    Some women prob'ly went without, damn sight easier to work in but if you get to mince around the house doing bugger all then lace'em up tight. There's another pic that I have somewhere that shows the inside of a busy tailors workshop with a woman carrying beer jugs for the tailors wearing just skirts shift and stays.

    I fear more than a few of these conventions you mention are what I would call re-enactorisms, us 21stC types retro fitting our morals and ideals on the past.

    But hey as long as we talk about it rather than just accept them as truths things and knowledge will get pushed forward =o)

    5095867729_c2bf5448ba_b.jpg

  4. I just priced saffron yesterday, it comes out to around $350 an ounce. Maybe I should lock up the bottle from the Chinese market, it was cheaper there *g*

    Pah! We've been asked to source some ambergis (Sperm Whale puke or pooh 'pending on size) for some awfentick 17thC confections and This place in NZ is charging $20 a gram which works out $560 an oz ;o)

  5. Also that term Dutch was used to mean 'false' or used in a derogatory way of characteristic/manners of or attributed to the Dutch; usually as a way of ridiculing them, possibly due to the hostility between English and Dutch in the 17thC. Dutch auction or auctioneer(Start high and drop the price), bargain(Overpriced or shonky goods), concert(a cacophony), courage(false bravado owing to booze), gleek, nightingale, uncle. Dutch comfort, consolation, defence, feast, palate, reckoning, widow, Dutch act(suicide or doing a runner) yaddayaddayadda

    Bit like The French calling syphlis the English Disease and the English calling it the French pox

    The biggy still used today is going Dutch or Dutch lunch, party, <A name=50071137se68>supper, treat where you pay for your own meal rather than get treated to a meal at someone elses expense.

    So as it's a cookpot, not an proper oven as such, its a Dutch(mans) oven.

  6. Ah, that's quite useful. Thanks. What was used to spread the saffron on the bird in the kitchens at HCP? I'd use a pastry brush at home, but it looks like a little wad of something I can't identify in the pic. And using the pastry trick is a good one, especially for pot lids that don't seal well. Will file that away for future use *G*

    We bodged a 'brush' from a knackered old bit of linen cloth rescued from the scraps we use to make charcloth.

  7. Ingredients:

    a chicken

    saffron

    1 large handful of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme, altogether now.......Are you going...ehem (or other aromatic green herbs).

    Bottle of reasonable white wine

    cauldron with lid and sticks or skewers

    Sit your pot on it's legs

    pour wine into pot add half the herbs

    arrange your sticks/skewers in a grid making a platform above the wine

    Put the other half of the herbs inside the chicken.

    Paint the outside of the chicken with saffron water - saffron strands dried and ground made up to solution with warm water

    Put the chicken on the sticks over the wine - without it touching the wine

    Lid the pot and seal it with a little dough if you can or put a weight on the lid

    Put y'pot on the fire and steam the chicken for the same time it would take to roast.

    The herby wine becomes a good base for a sauce.

    That looks gorgeous! I'll have to give this a go at the next event. Do you have pics of yours to share?

    Eeeep this is putting me head above the parapet but her are some pics of the very first time me and me chums tried it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the early 16thC ;o)

    http://www.flickr.co...57605997771339/ It's become a regular at home using a steamer rack and a wok with a lid.

    The bronze cauldrens we use at work are fantastic for cooking in, much 'faster' than iron and they don't sadden your food, give it that slight grey tinge that cast iron does, BUT they do need proper cleaning with mucho elbow grease and scourers.

  8. Ingredients:

    a chicken

    saffron

    1 large handful of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme, altogether now.......Are you going...ehem (or other aromatic green herbs).

    Bottle of reasonable white wine

    cauldron with lid and sticks or skewers

    Sit your pot on it's legs

    pour wine into pot add half the herbs

    arrange your sticks/skewers in a grid making a platform above the wine

    Put the other half of the herbs inside the chicken.

    Paint the outside of the chicken with saffron water - saffron strands dried and ground made up to solution with warm water

    Put the chicken on the sticks over the wine - without it touching the wine

    Lid the pot and seal it with a little dough if you can or put a weight on the lid

    Put y'pot on the fire and steam the chicken for the same time it would take to roast.

    The herby wine becomes a good base for a sauce.

  9. What a wonderful resource! I noticed there isn't anything for Guernsey and Jersey. Aren't they part of the UK? Or do they share a dialect with somewhere else?

    Not many speakers left but in both Islands the people spoke archaic forms of Norman 'French' well into the 19thC, Jèrriais in Jersey, Dgèrnésiais in Guernsey with Sark and Alderney having their own , now all but extinct, variants. These obscure Norman dialects made a bit of a come back during the occupation by German forces in WWII as a way of passing info without Jerry finding out.

    I barely do English let alone Norman, that you'll have to find out from the Islands =o) But to use a Jersey proverb, "Vielles amours et tisons brûlés sont deux feux bein vite ralleunmés "old loves and burnt embers are fires which can be quickly re-ignited, which if you look at Welsh, Scottish and Irish Gallic can be true about language and dialect if people care enough.

    note the editor softwear sucks too, shonky piece of doo doo so it is!

  10. Stupid f'*&%$£ board software won't let me post the other links, a pox on its bits and bytes :rolleyes:

    Go to youtube look for The Imagined Village 'Ouses 'ouses 'ouses

    the other was s'posed to be a joke it was The Wurzels Blackbird song also on youtube and the Yetties was that standard of English folk songs Liliburlero.

  11. This may help

    This lot have been going even longer than the Wurzels The Yetties from Yetminster though they don't play up to the yokel image as much

    See if you can find Kathryn Tickell & Ensemble Mystical just for the Corn Fiddler/Poem done in a NE English accent, puts the hair up on y'neck or listen to

    for a bit of a Sussex accent.
  12. Accents meld, drift into each other so I'd contest the 'fact' that American English is closer to 17/18thC English than English English apart from the syntax, the way sentances are constructed, that is closer, more archaic in the American dialect.

    Put a mixed bunch from all over a country together and their accents drift towards each other and they pick up words/slang/dialect from each other. The Scots emigrees influence on the Canadian accent with oot and aboot is one that springs readily to mind but it's happened to me and others I know.

    When I join HM Forces I did have a very Bucks rural accent, used words like ockkerd (bloody minded), called ants emmet, used cop 'old for get or grab( More Bucks 'words' ) baint for isn't but over time it lessened and military slang like tab for run, NFI for not interested plus other regional slang, mardi for grumpy from Sheffield, numpty for idiot from Scotland, drifted into my speech patterns, my ex was a valley girl from S Wales and everytime she went home her accent got stronger then vanished after a week back in Bucks. It's a human survival technique so you blend in with the pack.

    Gurt fun though finding all this cant n bolting it into your persona.

    Geordie anyone? H'way canny lad, am gan yam. :rolleyes:

  13. Y'Ere tis, troy this'ere, gwan gee it a goo.

    Here's some Wiltshire dialect words and place names

    Some letters were interchangeable such as V & F: P & B: S & Z and so on.

    PLACE NAMES - see pronunciation in italics

    Aldbourne - Auborn

    Berwick Bassett - Berrick (as in Derrick)

    Bicknoll in Broad Hinton - Bynoll

    Bremhill - Bremell

    Bromham - Brumum

    Burderop - Burdrop

    Charlcott - Chawcot

    Cherhill - Cherill

    Fisherton Anger - Fisherton Ainjer

    Mildenhall - Mynoll as in mine, see Bicknoll

    Poulshot - Powshot

    Salisbury - often referred to as Sarum or New Sarum

    Sutton Veny - Venny

    WILTSHIRE DIALECT WORDS

    Anneal (nealded) - heated oven

    Arse over tip, pitchfalling - to fall headlong

    Badger - a corn dealer, so called because he was licensed to deal and wore a badge

    Bargain - small landed property or holding e.g. house, garden, land

    Batters - embankment

    Belluziz - bellows for lighting a fire

    Belly Button - navel, as opposed to Billy Buttons meaning a dimwit, fool, also term for woodlouse

    Bide - to stay, keep still - 'bide here with me'

    Billy Buttons - a dimwit, fool, also a term for woodlice

    Blind-house - local lock up with no windows

    Brack - to crack, break, fracture - can also mean feeling sick

    Brave - good health

    Brown - a brown day, a gloomy day

    Budgy - moody, sulky

    Bulragging - nagging, haranguing Bunt - nudge, shove up, push

    Buttery - pantry

    Butty - a workmate

    Cack-handed - left handed, clumsy

    CaddIe - trouble, confusion, disorder as in 'I'm all in a caddIe'

    Call - 'no call to be so rude'

    Chooky pig - woodlouse

    Comical - funny tempered, not well also see Queer Count - to expect or think as in 'don't count on it', 'don't expect it'

    Crowdy - apple turnover, apple crowdy

    Cubby-hole - warm place, a snug corner

    Dab - as in 'a dab hand' - an expert

    Daps - plimsolls

    Dadacky - ricketty or unsafe.

    Dewpond - a constructed pond on the Downs not fed by a spring, river or stream but which depended on mist, dew and rain to fill it (the parish of Imber had dewponds)

    Dicky - weakly, ill health in people, in plants

    Dimmet (dimpsy) - dusk, twilight-time

    Dodder, dudder, duther - bewilder, deafen with noise

    Dozey - sleepy, stupid

    Drag - a harrow

    Drane - drangway, drung - a narrow passage between houses

    Dribs and drabs - bits and pieces/odds and ends, in tatters

    Drowner - man who attended to the hatches by maintaining the water supply

    Dry as a gix - a gix is a dried nettle stem.

    Dryth/druth - very dry, a drought

    Duckstone - a game played with stones

    Dummel, domel, dumble - stupid, dull, foolish Dung pot-a dung cart

    Dunny, dunnikin - an earth closet

    Emmet - an ant

    Faggot - woman/girl of bad character

    Fardingale - quarter of an acre

    Favour - to resemble in features

    Flump - to fall heavily

    Fogger - a man servant, groom, labourer ;-- man who took cows their fodder morning and evening - a corruption of 'fodder'

    Frame - skeleton

    Frickle/Fuggle - to potter about/fidget/worry

    Fuckling/friggling - tiresome, something which involves much attention to detail

    Gaapus/gawpus - a fool, stupid person

    Galley-bagger/galley-crow - a scarecrow

    Gammer - woodlouse

    Gapps/Grapsey - gape or stare

    Gibbles (pronounced as 'jibbles')/Chipples - Spring onions

    Gill - low four wheeled timber carriage

    Glory-hole - place/cupboard for rubbish/ odds & ends Goggles - a disease in sheep

    Gooding Day - St Thomas' Day -21 December

    Goosegog - gooseberry

    Gossiping - christening;- Gossips - godparents Grizzle - complain, grumble, whine, cry

    Griggle -small apple

    Hacker/hagger - tremble as with the cold

    Gurt as in 'gurt big 'un' meaning 'great big one

    Half-baked - dimwitted, stupid

    Hallantide - All Saints' Day - 1 November

    Handin' post - a signpost

    Hanglers/pot hangels - pothooks

    Helyer - a tiler

    Hike - to hook or catch Hilp wine - sloe wine

    Hodmandod/hodmedod - short and clumsy

    Hollardy day - Holy Rood Day - 3 May

    Home to be called - to have banns of marriage published

    Hookland/Hitchland - portion of the best land in a common field

    Hooset, Heusset, Wooset - Skimmington ride (public disapproval of marital infidelities - rough justice)

    Horse's leg - a bassoon

    Hudgy - clumsy, thick

    Hurdle footed - club footed

    Hurkle - to crowd together

    In-a-most - almost

    Jack and his team/Dick and his team - the Great Bear/the Plough

    Jarl - quarrel

    Jaw-bit - labourers' elevenses (also see Nammet)

    Jibbets - small bits and pieces

    Jobbet - small load

    Jonnick - honest/fair

    Junk-a solid piece - hunk/hunch - bread & cheese, a lump of wood or coal

    Junket - a treat, out on a spree

    Kiver - a cooler (used in brewing)

    Lannock - long narrow piece of land

    Lear/leer - very cold/extremely hungry/starving

    Leaser - gleaner

    Licket - all in pieces

    Lollop(er) - to loll about: lazy lout

    Loppity - to feel weak or out of sorts

    Lot-meads - common meadows divided into equal sized pieces

    Lug - land measure (pole or perch) in Wiltshire can be 3 lengths - 15, 18 or 16 & 1/2 ft (statute perch)

    Lummekin - ungainly, heavy, clumsy

    Main - good, excellent

    Marlbro' handed - awkward, clumsy

    Mere - boundary line/bank of turf as a boundary

    Mere stone - boundary stone

    Middling - ailing or tolerable as in 'I be fair to middling'

    Mistpond - see Dewpond

    Mommet/mommick - scarecrow

    Mooned up - spoilt, coddled

    Mop - Statute fair for hiring servants - held in several Wiltshire towns eg. Chippenham, Marlborough, Wootton Bassett.

    Moral - likeness

    Mucker - miserly person (in other counties this can mean a pal, workmate, friend)

    Mump/mump about - sulky

    Nammet, nummet;- Nunchin/nunchin bag - noon meat, lunch, midday snack. Lunch, lunch bag

    Nanny fudging - nonsence

    Narration - fuss, commotion - 'what a narration about nothing'

    Naumpey - weak, foolish minded person

    Next akin to nothing - very little

    Nine holes - children's' game

    Nineter - regular scamp/worthless/skinflint

    Ninny hammer - foolish, silly person

    Nuthen - nothing

    Out-axed - when banns were called for the third and last time

    Pantony - pantry

    Peck - pickaxe, also a measure of weight

    Peel - a lacemaking pillow

    Pegged it - to run well fast

    Pelt - in a passion or a rage

    Pigged, picked, picky - a sickly looking person

    Pitch - steep place

    Pitchin - paving with large flat stones 'pitching' with small uneven stones set on edge (usually on a steep or slippery slope)

    Plim - to swell out

    Pot-walloper - someone possessing house with a 'pot-well' (fireplace) for cooking. In Wootton Bassett pot-wallopers had voting rights

    Pucksey - quagmire (dirty, messy, muddy)

    Purler - to have a heavy fall -'her went a right purter'

    Put about - to worry, fret

    Quar® - stonequarryman

    Quean - a woman

    Queer - not well, also see Comical

    Quidly or Quiddle - a fussy person

    Quilt - to swallow

    Plock - alog of firewood, just large enough to fit into the grate.

    Rag-mag - ragged beggar (male/female)

    Rannel - extremely hungry

    Raves/Reaves - waggon rails

    Rawmouse - bat

    Rawney/Rowney - thin person or thin poor and uneven as in manufactured cloth

    Reeve - to draw up as in 'her skirts is all reeved up', wrinkle

    Remlet - remnant

    Revel - parish/village festival also as in Club Feast

    Rick/wrick - to twist or wrench - as in a turned ankle

    Rhine (pronounced reen) - water course

    Rough - feeling unwell; to sleep outdoors - 'sleeping rough'

    Roughband/rough music - see Housset

    Scaut - to strain, push, to carry a heavy load

    Scram - awkward, scrammy handed (left handed)

    Shandy - a row about nothing in particular

    Shard - a gap or hole in a hedge, generally large enough for a child to crawl through.

    ShitsacklShock-shack Day - King Charles' day - 29 May when children carried shitsack (springs of young oak or ash) in the morning and powder-monkey or Even-ash leaves in the afternoon.

    Shot of/shut of - to rid oneself of a thing

    Shrammed - cold - perished with cold -cold to your very bones

    Scag/skag/skeg - ragged tear in clothes - to scag on something.

    Skiffley - showery

    Skillin(g) - pent house/outhouse/cowshed

    Slammock/Slummock - slatternly woman Slewed - the worse for drink

    Smart - a second swarm of bees

    Somewhen - sometime

    Spreeved - sore skin, hands and legs, caused by cold weather.

    Teg - sheep

    Tegman - shepherd - teg was a Wiltshire name for sheep

    Tallet, tallot - hayloft over a stable

    Tasker - casual labourer

    Teart - very cold, sore as in a small sore cut on a finger, a graze

    Tranter - a haulier

    Trumpery - rubbish, cheap and tawdry; weeds left in cultivated ground

    Tuffin/tuffin hay - late hay made from the rough grass left by cattle

    Tump/tumpy - hillock, hillocky - uneven

    Tun - chimney or chimney top; to pour liquid through a 'tun-dish' into a barrel

    Turn/torn - spinning wheel

    Unbelieving - disobedient (as with naughty children) Up-along - a little way up the road (as in 'down-along' - down the street) Upping-stock - horse block

    Vag - to reap with a broad reap hook (vagging hook)

    Vamplets - gaiters

    Want-catcher/cont catcher - mole catcher

    Whipland - land measured out by the whip's length when ploughed

    Whissgig - to have a bit of fun, to lark about Wisp, wish, west - a stye in the eye

    Yardland - Quarter of an acre (a quarter of an acre was a landyard wide)

    Yer/Yertiz - here/here it is or your.

    Yuckle - Woodpecker

    Zammy - a simpleton

    and some chaps speaking

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeCMmUcJT9Iy

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    I did have a link to a site that had recordings of accents and dialects from all over the UK I'll see if I can dig it out.

    There was a time even in my life when you could tell which village some people came from an' oy spoke pro'er Bucks m'ducks. But I only slips baack into 'er aaaafter a bevvy or two =o)

  14. I was trying to get the image of the smuggler (from the article in the link from the first post)to come up on here but still cannot figure out how that works. Anyone know the date on this guy? huge bucket boots, two pistols, a hangar and what looks like an apron or kilt-type garment over breeches. I've been looking for the image to try and find out its origins. Any help on this I'd be grateful. thanx.

    Bo

    It's called A Smuggler by William Heath circa 1830 there is a companion piece called The Preventive Service showing the Coastguard uniform of the same period.

  15. Man, you just come up with the best stuff! Thanks! I could get lost in those documents for hours!

    Looks like a tierce is a type of cask, according to this definition: A cask whose content is one third of a pipe; that is, forty-two wine gallons; also, a liquid measure of forty-two wine, or thirty-five imperial, gallons. 2. A cask larger than a barrel, and smaller than a hogshead or a puncheon, in which salt provisions, rice, etc, are packed for shipment.

    From the OED online (I love my library service, with my card number they let me access stuff like the OED Times Online and loads of other stuff at home for free =o)

    4. An old measure of capacity equivalent to one third of a pipe (usually 42 gallons old wine measure, but varying for different commodities: cf. PIPEn.2 2); also a cask or vessel holding this quantity, usually of wine, but also of various kinds of provisions or other goods (e.g. beef, pork, salmon, coffee, honey, sugar, tallow, tobacco); also such a cask with its contents. 1531 Charterparty in R. G. Marsden Sel. Pl. Crt. Admir. 36 Accounttyng..ij pipes for a ton iiij hoggeshedds for a ton and vj tercys for a ton. 1531-2 Act 23 Hen. VIII, c. 7 §5 The butte, tonne, pype..teers, barrell or rondlett. 1538 ELYOT Addit., Hemicadia, vesselles callyd a tierce, halfe a hoggesheed. 1588 Wills & Inv. N.C. (Surtees) II. 180, ix tearces of honeye, at 16l. per tonne, 24l. 1707 Lond. Gaz. No. 4337/4 On Wednesday..will be exposed to Sale..about 400 Hogsheads and 10 Tierces of..French Claret. 1800 COLQUHOUN Comm. Thames iii. 136 Beef and Pork..contained in..Tierces and Barrels. 1825 Gentl. Mag. XCV. I. 216 [Coffee berries] closely packed in tierces for exportation. <A name=50252595q26>1886 Pall Mall G. 19 June 6/1 The tobacco..comes from abroad..in hogsheads..in what are called tierces (a smaller wooden barrel), and in bales.

  16. Foxe, could you expand on the little cryptic bit of info at the bottom of the inventory, and tell us what book or collection of records this came from? Thanks!

    Yes indeed. It comes from the records of the High Court of Admiralty (HCA) in the National Archives at Kew. HCA 1/17 is the records of indictments and subsequent proceedings filed at the High Court of Admiralty, 1713-1724. The lists come from f[olio] 163 of that file.

    Thank you! Yet another reason to cross that ocean!

    Mistress D.

    And just down the road is the big house where I work so you could come and look round, if I'm working I'll sort you tickets, if I'm not I'll show you round. Plus in a year or so we may have Fred's kitchen at Kew up and running. It's a wee time capsule, someone shut the doors in 1780 summat and all that happen was people filled it with stuff that they couldn't throw away. Still got it's ovens , charcoal stoves, HUGE chimmney fan roasting range, all mid to late 18thC and I may get to play with it.......I love my job =o)

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