Cuisto Mako

Onion seed heh...nerver though of that! thanks! And you do have a good point QMJ about baking them a little bit. Now I need to find a lot of onion seed....in the meantime I think I 'm gonna use the big calabash as a water canteen as well but for the base camp not to carry on my shoulder.

The sun hit hard in the Carribean

do they need to be treated in any way or are they good to go in the natural state, and do they hold up well being used and then left to dry over and over

Mine will be treated with bee's wax, help to seal the thing and give a nice taste to your water

Thanks guys, I did finally found a farm not far in Ontario that specialise in growing gourd for craft artist.

http://www.northerndipper.com/

I order a medium size calabash water gourd, but it's ended up being way too big for a water canteen that you would carry on your shoulder. I order a new one of a better size.

Any suggestion on what I could do with that super huge calabash? Exquemellein mention that buccanners used to store black powder in calabash seal with wax. Could be an option. But for security reason I would obvisouly not fill it with real powder. What could fake black powder in term of weigth and size of grain(for the sound when you shake it)? Sand? Salt?

Any other ideas?

Thanks guys,

after going through those threads and doing a bit more research on the web, I decided that my baldric won't have a buckle but rather cross stiches like this one:

http://www.karlrobinson.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=6763

Looks pretty good, and you saved the cost of a buckle that would not necessarily have been pc in style anyway...

Thanks! I though I had already scann through that forum but apparently I missed this thread

Hi everyone,

I know every body loves those big brass buckle on their baldric, but I was wondering if they were actually pc and if so what are they suppose to look like?

I know that soldiers baldric usually features some sort of stretch double D buckle but what about pirates or militia man?

Anybody with pc image or painting? My main interest is of cours late 17thC but GAoP would be interesting too.

Thanks

Mako

Hey thanks Hawkyns! Those are splendid! :)

Was it the only style of powder flask used during the 17th century or did they also used simple powder horn (more 18th century style)?

I think the bandolier/wooden powder holders was the dominant means of storing powder charges throughout most of the 17th century, but I have found references to shot boxes (cartouche boxes) going back as far as 1664, and there is a popular image of some Dutch soldiers dated to the 1690s that shows them with powder horns and what may be a shoulder slung shot pouch/bag.

I think Patrick Hand uncovered some cool info on how the early Buccaneers may have carried their powder and cartidges (see the Buccaneer Projects discussion topic for that info)

Yeah I know that image and you're rigth those are powder horn for sure. Regarding the early buccaneers they did use calabash sealed with wax, but I was under the impression that it was to store large quantity of powder not to cary it with them, but I could be wrong.

I was curious about the horn versus the flask since cowhide was pretty common in the carribean with the hunting buccaneers, so I guess so would have been the horn...

Was it the only style of powder flask used during the 17th century or did they also used simple powder horn (more 18th century style)?

It's a bit different on the west coast because we don't have any historical period events. There was very little reason for pyracy on our coast during the time period, because there was nothing to pyrate. The region was unsettled, other than by Native Americans, and strategically useless for raids in the Caribbean. Our living history events are geared more toward pioneer days, the old west, and early mountain men/trappers, because that's our history. Those events can get extremely accurate in all aspects. The Spanish may have explored the coastal areas, but they didn't make permanent settlements until much later.

I don't know of any pyracy living history events on our coast. If there are, then someone can correct me. So the whole question of how accurate we get is kinda moot. Some do — Like the Kern Co. folks — some go halfway — Like Tales of the Seven Seas — and other don't even come close. I don't think there is any event organizer here who would lay down strict laws governing garb and encampments.

That being said, I think it's great that there are venues in other areas of the country where strict accuracy is requested. Maybe, eventually, us West Coasters will have something similar, where those who seek strict authenticity can play with like-minded souls. And I do think most event organizers and reenactors are welcoming to newbies. They are the life blood of the community, so should be encouraged, not slammed for off-period garb. It happens, but I don't think it's the norm. I would also encourage anyone who hears a newbie being snarked at, to step in with a diversion.

And I must say, I am liking this discussion because it has remained just that...a discussion. You are all to be admired for keeping things calm and rational...well, as rational as reenactors can get. Huzzah to that.

Even if it is not part of your direct history, it is still possible to do some serious reenactment of any given period. Some friend of mine are doing heavy 15 th century living history even though we are in Quebec which is very far from medieval Europe. Of course we don't have the support of a museum or a national institution since it is not part of our history. Same with group in America that reenact Roman time or Napoleonic era, but they still do it.

Personally, as anyone who has seen me do my presentation will vouch, I prefer the explanation style over the living history style. Folks have been trying to get me do a mock operation for years and I am still not comfortable with it. I know deep in my heart that any attempts I would make to be accurate in portrayal would be wrong in many ways, so I prefer not to do it. This probably stems in part from the belief I mentioned that I can't see how we can get it more 50% right. However, I really admire those who do it and would gladly visit as a spectator to admire their art.

That's why I don't do the barber-surgeon thing anymore. It is a fun display to present to the public, but in a private setting it is kind of boring...nobody wants to let me try the clyster... And fake medical operation do look...fake.

Plus it can be a tricky subject. I remember an old women asking me questions and taking note about what I would prescribe for this and that. I think she was taking this very seriously. Please mam don't stop taking your regular pills. It is amasing how easilly people will give credits to quack.

I agree with mister Souris on that one. I think a newbie deserve a try. Now if the guy is still wearing his rev war breeches to a 17th event after 4 or 5 event that's a problem.

You give the example of a Springfield musket versus a club butt one. But what about a 1690 fusil de tulle to a 1670s event? Would it create a fuss? Based on some comments and reactions I have seen ont he web on different forum, I think it would. Now that's a very strict line if you ask me...

Yeah, but I'm hardcore, you know that Mark. I play from 1580 to 1780, 5 major periods, 5 different sets of kit, including weapons. BUT it's taken me 30 years to get to that point, and my kit still changes as new information and sources become available. If they are young and have limited resources, then concentrate on the one period and don't try crossing periods until you can get the kit to match the venue. I guess I hark back to one of the first times we met, back at Plimoth, what '88 or so?. I've been using their ideas as a base for my standard since then. Took me 10 years to get to that point, and the progression has continued since then. So yeah, I'm harsh when I look at other kit, especially when they are cross timing. They're young, no great hurry. Take it slow, concentrate on one thing and get it right, before starting the next, and then put the same effort in before you take it into the field.

Hawkyns

One thing I find very refreshing with pirate reenactment is that people are very welcoming, very warm and encouraging, probably because it is fairly new. Based on your comment Hawkyns, what I understand is that I would not be welcome to a 17th century event as a newbie unless my kit is close to perfection. You said it yourself it took you 30 years, that's a pretty good advance and hard to follow. Now how can I learn from that experience if I'm not welcome to participate? I think any time period reenactment, if they want to grow and survive as a hobby, needs to show an open-minded attitude from both parties, veteran and rookies.

Thanks! It looks like you guys had lots of fun. Very nice pot. What's cooking?

Any pictures of this event?

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a calabash water gourd. I know, I could try to grow one my self...but hey, I'm lazy!

So I would prefer to find one already clean and dry.

Thanks for your help!

Thanks Michael! That's great! :)

but I still find it difficult to identify those "early" French lock. They don't seems to have a distinct feature like the dog of the doglock.

Does anybody have a picture of the fusil boucanier lock from Riffle shop? How different is it from an early French trade gun lock or a fusil de tulle lock?

And what about pistol? Exquemellin mention that most flibustier are also equip with one or two pistol. Any idea what they migth look like? "modern" flint lock as well?

Thanks Patrick, I already did,

but it mostly focus on the hunters buccaneers. I'm into flibustier so more of a soldier background. Petticoat breeeches look funny, maybe too over the top, but I do like the small coat.

I'm not an expert, but I'm not sure that petticoat breeches ever got that popular among civilian. To me petticoat breeches sounds more like a super trendy thing that kings and high nobility would have wore for a brief period. A nouveau-riche flibustier migth have prefer to spend his new fortune on something more conservative, more safe? Something that fits more his definition of a wealthy man.

What about something stolen from a Spaniard, what is their fashion in the 1660-70s? Anybody with image of that?

Hi there,

I want to make my self a kit for a French flibustier of 1665-1675. I'm having difficulty picturing what would be appropriate in term of coat.

Based on my readings, flibustiers would go in campaing wearing not more than some breeches and a shirt and would put on what they find in their loot. logically that would mean Spanish fashion. The other option would be a successful flibustier coming back to Tortuga or Port Royal and buying him self a nice suit.

I have the feeling that a ECW style doublet would be more appropriate. On the other hand justacorp are becoming quite popular among soldiers uniform during the 1670s...

The shirt, breeches, hat and shoes are simpler to identify and are less problematic.

So what do you guys think this coat or jacket would look like?

Actually Exquemellin mention that the hunters did store some powder (very good quality powder btw) in some calabash sealed with wax. This was probably left at the base camp and not caryed with them while hunting. The mosquito net thing was use by hunters when hunting for more than a day and not returning to their base camp. I'm not sure they would have use this while campaining or that it would have been use by other non-hunters adventurers.

Again based on Exquemellin, L'Olonais, in one of is expedition, named one of his ship " La Poudrière" because it was carrying mostly powder and ammunition.

On campaign, they did not. There are instances during the Panama trek where the buccaneers were boiling their own leather for food as the Spanish had moved all their herds inland and emptied their grains inland. When they were hunting, they would simply cut a hole into the middle of the side of beef and throw it over their heads. If the load became heavy, they sawed off pieces to lighten it. But that is how a buccaneer carried his raw meet. The powder and balls were in the cartouche they carried. Additional shots were typically gained by seizing the enemy's fortifications and stocks of powder and ball.

-- Hurricane

The buccaneers, when on campaign, traveled lightly. The typically carried their fusil boucanier rifle, a cartouche on their belt with 30 charges I believe, four Flemish knives and a machete or cutlass, and a small tent of linen or sailcloth that was carried like a bandolier. This served as their shelter from insects at night. They slept at night on a bed of grass or leaves, their gun between their legs, under this awning, which was set on short sticks, until the buccaneer crawled under it and collapsed it, like curtains, over him.

If in need of a drink, the buccaneer typically found a broadleaf plant and use it to fetch a drink from a stream. The knives were sufficient for butchering any game that came their way and doubled as the primary eating instrument. Food was served on broad leaves, that were found.

These men had to carry everything with them, so they approached it from a philosophy of absolute need.

I have seen no reference to how casks of powder would have been carried, or balls beyond what each buccaneer carried on his person. Food was usually found along the way and it was unusual for the buccaneers to do without for several days, particularly on their treks through Central America.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, Benerson Little, author of the Buccaneer's Realm is the best source.

And this should make Sterling happy - his next book due out in February is on the pirate hunters, their tactics and such.

-- Hurricane

They had to have caches somewhere. Not only did they have powder and ball to worry about, they also had all of that dried beef and hides waiting for buyers.

I have heard that the cloth that they carried was more like cheesecloth than linen since it mainly served as mosquito netting. They probably wrapped what few things they carried in this and used it as a snapsack.

BTW, the use of the term snapsack to mean a long bag worn across the back is modern. I think that was begun by the Saint Mary's City Militia in the 1980s. "Haversack" is actually the older word and "snapsack" was a synonym.

Mark

would it be the kind of item that a sailor or pirate would tarred or waterproof?

ffiinnnneeee vous criez le bébé! I shall invite the canadian to bless us with his knowledge........ *le sigh

My dear sir I don't know what translator you use or not for your French but it always put a smile on my face. I mean that in very friendly non-condescending way. It's always very close but not quite rigth. Keep it up I like it

Bien le bonjour monsieur Mordagne et la bienvenue en cette taverne! Félicitation pour votre forum. Je suis moi même en train de monter un équipage de flibustier français basé à Montréal (Québec)et vais assurément m'y inscrire histoire de pouvoir discourir piraterie et forbans dans la langue de Molière!

À la vôtre et bon vent!

Niiiice, really nice!!!!!! Can you run with this? Who cares! When you look bad ass like that, people in front of you are the ones running!