Ivan Henry aka Moose

It looks great! Nice colour choices!

You could have shown off the belt a bit more... (just kidding).

Thanks everyone! Yeah I know - it looked great worn outside of the sailor short coat (you could see it better) sorry I didn't get pics in that kit. I'll see if i can get a few in the next couple of days. Your work is great - everyone should see it!

Here be a few pics of my "captain" impression. I look forward to your observations and suggestions as this is one of my first attempts at PC.

BTW - yes, that beautiful belt and box around my waist is a wonderful michaelsbagley cartridge box and sword belt!

I scrubbed them and soaked them in several degreasing solutions (like SImple Green), let them soak for a while, wrung them out and realized that it's the dye that makes them stink. THey must dye these things with gasoline. Even after that and leaving them out side for days, they still stink. Albeit a little less, but stink none-the-less.

I'll back up Michael and Sterling here with that painting and safely say that the waistcoat and breeches are silk velvet while the coat is wool. What kind of wool is the tough question. For all we know could be worsted wool or wolsey lindsay... or some other type of wool. But, it is wool.

Oh, and look at the item below the knee? Be those leather gaitors? Hmmm... much like perhaps those type shown in the other thread about shoes... we see the buttons down the side.

I've seen a few Rev War reenactors add a couple extra inches to the part around the knee to where it's form fitted about the knee; the person standing up, it's bunched up like slouch socks but when seated... there be plenty of fabric for the knee to bend with ease and no ride up. It works.

Mooseworth... I wish you luck with this project. It's a fine outfit indeed. :)

~Lady B

Thanks! I just sourced fabric and had a long discussion with someone I may use to make it - (I don't sew very well nor have much desire). I think I'll skip the gators and go with a less "hunting outfit" approach. I am pretty sure that's a pocket on the breeches, so I am going to go with one on each thigh.

Question or educated opinions please - Francis Desportes looks to be well off. So, what is the popular opinion here on his waistcoat? Do you believe it would have been short in the back and from some other material which as i understand it, was the way of the better off gentleman, or do you believe it to be matching fabric and length like a upper middleclass man?

no idea whats going on in the pirate camp yet for times, but stop by the Explorer and say howdy.

Thanks! I will!

That would be Capt. Pern, as last year non pc folks were only allowed in the camps at certain hours...,unfortunately, I do not know what those hours are yet this year, although as along as the camps are open to the spectators, you should be welcomed in...

No matter what time though, feel free to come by the pirate hunter camp, if necessary we will step outside to say ahoy and chat...damnation, I might even put ye to work!

Thanks! I will. And we will be PC - trust me, lots of work and research have been done - with much more to do.

My wife and I will be attending this event. We've been planning for months. This will be the first event we are attending in PC gear. I'm wondering if it is possible for us to hang out in the PC camp for a bit and see what it is like. We both have interest in attending other events already. Who would I need to contact or ask politely (please) to test the waters for a few hours?

Thanks in advance for any info.

I have been back reading alot in the twill and gathering much information along the "common" threads that keep surfacing and it is surprising how often a way to carry pistols has come up. We know from literature that pistols have been worn on baldrics, on belts with hooks, as well as having ribbons tied around them. The paintings we have seem to raise more questions than providing answers. Rather than trying to recreate an artists impression why don't we use our experience and try to engineer something that would logically work and once that is done go back to the drawings and see how it compares.

For example as a pirate on a boarding party you would want to carry as many pistols as you could get your hands on. Would ships guns be stored and only broken out when battle was immement, naturally most would have a single pistol of their own. Who needs to be carrying multiple pistols when not fighting. This would lead to a means to carry them that was either removeable, or a way the pistols could be added. Something like a baldric that can be stored with the pistols and removed when needed would be logical. Having a belt with 3 or 4 buckets that were kept empty would not be as pratical. Pistols with belt hooks that could be grabbed and added when needed would be very pratical but if they were larger that becomes awkard. I think we can all agree that if pistols are kept on a baldric there must be a way to secure the baldric from shifting. Taking the time to replace pistols is not a viable option, however having 4 pistols hanging from you neck on cords swinging wildly about with every step is just as bad. Multiple pistols unless they are all the same would incorporate different charges, would you want to keep them all in the same box and risk grabbing the wrong one?

What are your thoughts?

I've always thought that trying to recreate (accurately) something along the line of a Blackbeard Baldric would be an interesting program for the History Channel or something like that. You take a few historians, a leather maker, a gunsmith, etc. and turn them loose to make something that works.

From experience, I know there are a host of problems when trying carry more than one gun. I currently have reproduction guns and even though they are lighter, it's difficult to carry three on a baldric let alone six. The baldric slides down, the holsters flop over from the weight, etc. It just doesn't seem practical. I even tried to make a single pistol holding baldric that would be accurate, and even then, the pistol wanted to fall out when I moved around and even one pistol wanted to pull the baldric down.

On the Nat Geo special about Blackbeard, a sharp eye will see that they had the same challenges. When Blackbeard is carrying six pistols, you'll see they use his dagger tucked into his belt to hold at least one of the pistols against his body. A screen shot also shows that they attached the baldric to his belt with a small piece of leather in the back to keep it from slipping forward. Seems these "fixes" would be probable but not practical.

Well, I have successfully saved up enough pieces of eight to afford me a new weapon(s) at Blackbeard. I'm looking forward to seeing what you bring.

I'll match or beat any price that loyalist charges for like items and there is no customs or international shipping charges .....and let me know what sort of musket you might be interested in since I usually don't bring long guns to pyrate events other than Blunderbusses

It's not correct to begin with, so who the heck cares!

So if you don't care, why did you bother to ask?

Why even bother to have, or pretend to have, standards?

Sheesh - I don't belong to a crew and haven't even attended any event in PC gear. My question was not "If I'm in a living history camp, how do i carry my mug around when not in use?" My question was how if there is any way acceptable to tote it around the festival and not have my renfair tankard holder attached to my belt. I asked because I cared. But I did figure that it wasn't PC to carry a tankard around anyway.

From 1699 this self portrait of Francois Desportes features one of my favorite outfits I've seen - his waistcoat is amazing - IMO. I have an interest in reproducing this outfit at some point in the future. My question is this. His waistcoat and breeches look to be shiny. What material would these have been? Are they wool or linen and the painting is just stylized by Francois or would they be of some other material? Also, what is that around his waist? Is it a leather sword belt with no sword, or is it a fabric belt? I appreciate the expertise here and thank you for your thoughts in advance!

Keep it full and it will be a non-issue

Just be careful with what yer keeping it full .... some events will nail you for alcohol during public hours OR outside of camp, last year Blackbeard's was one of them.

My vote is hunting bag, wallet/ or snapsack... (I still question haversacks as to correct for our period) or hell, ye can do what I used to do in England, stumble around from pub to pub with the same glass as I was too polluted to know I had taken it from the first pub...

Heck last year at Blackbeards I was asked to dump WATER (and yes it was really water with no additives) out of my mug. The security there was probably too tight, as drinks were expensive and it seemed as if we were not allowed to carry even innocent drinks out of camp.

And then when I bought an overpriced lemonade from a stand, I got busted by the authenticity police for drinking out of a plastic cup...

Personally I think the above combo of factors could have (and may still) lead to some serious heat stroke or other related heat related health issues if a practical solution is not come up with for that event... Either that or I will be telling off the festival security or authenticity police or both... (which I am guessing will not be a wise thing to do)

EDIT -> Just to be clear and not be insulting to anyone, when I say "busted by the authenticity police" I was being tongue in cheek. The fact of the matter is a fellow re-enactor politely and nicely reminded me that we were supposed to be keeping up a high level of authenticity, and that I should have stayed "off duty" (reasonably hidden) or had my mug to dump said liquid into (which was problematic as I had no convenient means of carrying it).

Thanks Michael and everybody!

OH...OH...Oh..... This is one we have discussed before........

One.... Pyrates or Sailors would NOT be carrying a tankard around with them when they went drinkin'.... you went into a Tavern/Inn/Drinking establishment, and they provided a drinking vessel..... You don't carry around a pint glass if you wanna go drinking in a bar now do you ?

BUT..... hey.... I go to a Faire or Pyrate event.... and what do I get served outta....?

Carrying my tankard in a haversack, a Market Wallet or a ditty bag has been suggested.... Outta those three options,(and I tried them all) only the ditty bag kinda-sorta worked....but it was a hassle to open the ditty bag, get the tankard, get my drink, put the ditty bag back thou my belt........all to do something that wasn't PC (Period Correct) to begin with.....(hey... why would I be carrying my tool box/ditty bag when I'm out drinking? )

I tried a monkeys paw with a eye spliced to the other end to carry my tankard for a while.... but .... well that stupid leather belt loop with a thong and button works so much easier.....

Is it "period"?.... heck no..... but it isn't period to be carrying yer tankard to go drinkin'/Pub crawling anyway.....

So until Bars/Inns/Taverns start serving beer/ale/brandy or rum outta period containers..... I'll tote mine attached ter me belt with a Rennie farby leather carrier......just because it works.....

Patrick, you rock. Those were my thoughts as well. It's not correct to begin with, so who the heck cares!

Thanks!

So as I am preparing for my personal first attempt at being PC at a Pirate event, I'm wondering if there is an acceptable way to tote around my pewter tankard. I'm reasonably certain that my Renfair belt attachment with resplendent skull and crossed sword concho is going to cut it. Is there a way to carry this around other than in a haversack or carrying it in hand all day or hiring someone to impersonate a cabin boy/servant for me?

Here's the whole pic.

The cabin of Viscount Boyne by Bartolomeo Nazari, 1731.

What is the "stripy" garment underneath what looks like a waistcoat? It's not his shirt. You can see that on the sleeves.

I was looking at that the other day and wondering the same thing to myself. It sort of looks like it might be a sleeved waistecoat. Doesn't the guy behind him have something similar on as well?

One more thing - are his trousers, high water trousers or long petticoat breeches? THe sash is clear as a bell - great reference with lots to examine.

Good stuff. I really do appreciate all the help. Can't wait to hopefully meet all of you at Blackbeard's festival in a couple of weeks! I'll be the guy with the strip't shirt on.

Cool. Thanks for the link. i'll take a look at that. I did just now find some reference to shirts "other than white". On Reconstructing History's Shirt pattern, it mention an inventory taken of Joeseph Haycock's slop shop in London in 1699. It mentions "blew" shirts, "strip't" shirts, "shirts of several sorts" as well as of course "white".

That's sad about the artwork for the Whydah exhibit....

You're question of " why try wearing something questionable when we know they had checked shirts and plain "white" linen ones?" Is a good one. I certainly wouldn't want to be wearing something wrong, but at the same time, in the limited research I've done, I am not seeing that everyone wore the same sailor short coat, white shirt and slops. I have that kit and love it, but I am looking for other options that are correct.

Thanks so much for your time in discussing this with me.

am I understanding then, that it is your belief that the images i posted above from the Blackbeard nat Geo special is probably a costumer's touch as opposed to a documented style?

Thanks!

Below image,lovingly borrowed from the Baltimore Rangers web site, depicts some English Soldiers of the 1690s. Look on their belts...

Now do keep in mind that these are land troops (dragoons?), but it does show that powder horns were carried and used.

Thanks! I dig how all of their hats are different. Interesting.

Found these pics the other day. Thought someone might be interested in this thread.

THe page is here with more pics: http://www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?tit...cts&id=1940

Don't actually get the white, get the bleached linen for a plain "white" shirt... the white they offer wasn't available in the GAOP ...

As to the other striped fabrics...rather see those as trousers instead of shirts (just my opinion)... can't say I have run across too many striped shirts, but then I haven't really been looking for them as our crewe does the checked...tons of stripes for the ladies though...

Thanks for the info. I was just wondering.... mostly based on images from Nat. Geo's Blackbeard Terror of the Sea. While i know not to use film as an example of what's PC, I did find their costuming to be pretty darn good. They featured several dark and lightly pattern shirts that made me wonder if this was a costumer's addition or something based on research.

Here's a dark solid and a light stripe:

another solid:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd019.jpg

Better look at that stripe pattern:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd062.jpg

Solids again:

http://jamespurefoy.us/blackbeard-gallery/bbrd651.jpg

powder horns were certainly around. Apostles were used during the era, but seem to be on the way out. Mostly cartridge boxes with premeasured loads were used. Many folks will be able to make a recommendation of a box or other method for carrying loads.

From an event safety standpoint. Many events (including blackbeard's) prohibits the use of pouring directly from any container for a main charge. From a safety standpoint premade and measured is the norm.

Oh! (light going on) not being familiar with actual black powder weapons. I didn't realize that the cartridge boxes carried full premeasured rounds. I thought they only carried the musket balls. Interesting. I'll need to learn more about that. Note to self - wearing a powder horn and a cartridge box may look really silly.

While I see numerous examples of powder horn usage, I'm not seeing any period reference material to pirates and powder horns. Were they used by sailors/pirates?

Or were the gun powder bandolier holders more used? I've not seen much if any reference to either on board a ship.

I have ordered the shirt pattern from Reconstructing History for my first hand sewn, self made article of clothing, and while I will most certainly make a white shirt, I would like to know options of other solids, stripes or patterns (other than blue check) that would be a good option.

For starters would any of these be acceptable?

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1042

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1023

http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?got...;fabric_id=1027

Thanks!