Fox

I'm presuming you're asking for pictures which show equality between races, not this sort of thing?

I agree Maria, I wouldn't describe that as a sea chest, more of a strong-box, but you'll note that the shape is more or less the same as in the other drawings. The sword is very nice too, wouldn't mind a replica of that myself. GoF, with the exception of the surgeon's chest from the Mary Rose I don't recall seeing any sort of division in sea chests, but if it's being used primarly to keep clothes in you wouldn't need them. The whole of the "frisking" picture can be seen HERE in the largest format I can manage at the moment. I too am having trouble posting pics direct to the threads so perhaps someone else could see if they can manage it? Brief history: Woodes Rogers commanded a privateering voyage in 1709 or thereabout, raiding the West coast of South America. one of the successes of the voyage was a raid on the port of Guayacil which is depicted here in an engraving from Woodes Rogers' 1712 published account of that voyage.

Mariner's cuffs have a long buttoned opening running lengthways up the arm, sometimes as high as the elbow. This was originally to make it easier to roll up sleeves, and remained for that reason on working clothes for centuries, but also seems to have been adapted as a sort of seaman's fashion on non-working gear. I can't imagine Admiral Leake having to roll his sleeves up, and even if he did I can't imagine it being practical with the great turn backs he's got.

Here is a late 18th century engraving of a ship careening using a floating pontoon. The hulk used for careening were basically ships used in the same way as this pontoon for heeling over larger vessels.

If you're interested in sashes you might like to note too that one of the figures from the 1705 map I posted is also wearing a sash. In both cases though they seem to be fairly small with a knot at the fron and short ends, not the great big things with 2 foot long dangly ends so beloved of pirate re-enactors. Actually, I'm more interested in the figure to the left of the captain in the chests picture who seems to be wearing the same style hunting-shirt shown in the esquemeling and 1705 engravings. The engraving depicts people trading in the West Indies so it's quite possible that he is a local rather than a seaman. Either way that's three independent sources showing those long shirts - I'm going to make one!

Chests Oh when you're good, you're good! There we go, a picture of chests used at sea from a map drawn in 1700. What's more, it's a map of the West Indies so even the location is right. The chests are very simple rectangular boxes with flat lids, a handle at each end and a bit of decoration on the side. On the chests being carried on the right of the picture we can see hinges on the inside, a fact born out by the lack of visible hinges on the other closed chests. Note, apart from the decoration these chests are more or less the same as that in the Hogarth engraving, and are very similar to earlier chests as well. Since I seem to be on a roll today I'm gonna get all smug for five minutes and wallow in self-praise then book my tickets to Scotland and go and bring Nessie in

Maria, I love it! Not only is it very humourous, but it illustrates an interesting academic point (God, Foxe, you're soooo boring, you have to find the boring bit in everything!) If Cocklyn was going ashore and wanted to look his dandiest, but the best he could do was a terribly fitting coat, it just shows the status of clothing he was used to. IE, if he had loads of finery anyway he'd just have worn a posh frock that did fit. GoF, now you're beginning to tax me! I can find you photos of Tudor sea-chests (from the Mary Rose, or Francis Drake's), 17th century sea-chests (got a picture from the Vasa somewhere, or maybe the Tre Krona), later 18th century sea-chests (check out the one in the boat in Hogarth's Idle Apprentice for example), but can I think of a GAoP one? Nope. I'll keep thinking, but for now I reckon the one in the Idle Apprentice (1747) is gonna be as close as you're gonna get. Having said that, it's simple in the extreme, and very similar to 17th century ones I've seen so I just can't imagine there being a huge change.

By the late 18th century definitely brown sails were fairly common - maybe earlier - so brown sailcloth trousers would be fine. This whole thing about pirates being impoverished is, IMHO, twaddle. Beggars were impoverished, buccaneers who crossed the Isthmus of Panama on foot were tatty, but the average Caribbean or Atlantic seaman had a load of stuff: - clothing mentioned in the will of Thomas Powell, a foremastman in 1736 and quoted from the thread "Gear" on this board. Now since most pirates were seamen for most of their lives and pirates for a short time, and since during the time they were pirates they went around stealing MORE stuff of other people, I think it's fair to say that in the absence of any contrary evidence most pirates were probably well provided for clothing. Kass, assuming you're talking about the buccaneer pictures from Esquemeling and the French map I'm not convinced that those are men in their shirts either. I wonder whether they are long over-shirts, ie a sort of Caribbean hunter's equivalent to a coat. If you look carefully at the man from van Keulen's sea atlas it looks like he's got a second shirt on underneath which can be seen just poking out from under his left cuff. Even if they are just shirts, those men are clearly not in typical clothing, some have got no breeches on! I think they are wearing specific working clothes and when they went back to Port Royal or wherever they probably got into their normal togs.

I don't think the spike is essential on an axe, it just happens that that was what RN boarding axes were made like in the 18th century. IIRC there were plain axes found on the Tre Krona, a late 17th century Swedish shipwreck. I've definitely seen them, and I think it was from there, but I'd have to check. Das, how about an unlined canvas jacket? It would be lightweight and could be a light colour to make it cool. Apart from anything else that would be very sailory.

Detail from an early 18th century painting of Bristol Docks. Engraving of a buccaneer which I had always assumed to be 19th century, but which apparently comes from the 1684 edition of Esquemeling's Buccaneers of America. However, the dodgy musket shape make me wonder about the accuracy of this picture. Details from a French map of 1705 showing buccaneers in very similar dress to the Esquemeling engraving except with jackets over their hunting shirts. Detail from the title page of Bartholomew Sharpe's South Seas Waggoner 1682 showing a buccaneer in very similar dress to the Tudor seamen of de Bry's engravings. Detail from a map of Hispaniola from Van Keulen's Sea Atlas of the Water World 1682, showing a Caribbean seaman in similar clothing to that worn by the man in the Sharpe painting. Detail from John Seller's The Sea Gunner of 1692 showing a junior officer wearing a very distinctive long land coat with mariner's cuffs. Portrait of Admiral Sir John Leake (1656-1720) which I have included because it shows an interesting variant on the cuff in the Seller engraving. Here seems to be shown a traditional turn-back cuff, with a mariner's cuff incorporated, just the thing for a well dressed sea officer.

You should be careful with black if you're trying to be authentic. a sort of dirty black/dark grey kind of colour is fine, there are a number of different dyes for that, but if you're talking about true black, jet colour, then that was VERY expensive because in order to get that dark it had to be dyed over and over and over again. Being a pirate you could always go with the "I stole this off a ship we took and..." but then you've got to consider a: how much jet black fabric there was floating around on ships at the time and b: if you had taken this very expensive stuff would you really make a pair of working trousers from it? As Josh said natural fibre breathes a hell of a lot better than modern synths. In modern terms think of the difference between weaing a cotton t-shirt on a hot day and wearing a polyester one. Plus, of course the mid 17th century is said to have been a mini-ice age, so the GAoP was just coming out of that. Right, more pictures.

Good point Mission, I'd forgotten that passage. I thought it probably was just artistic license, hence the italics, and that confirms my opinions (and most people's I believe) If we believe what Johnson tells us about the relationships on that ship then it's unlikely that Rackham shared her. a: because he would probably have mentioned it, he knew a great amount of detail about the goings on on that ship, and in the Blackbeard chapter he mentions BB passing his wife around, so he wasn't prudish, and b: remember that Rackham got jealous and threatened to kill Mary Read when he thought she fancied Bonny. From other, albeit later, cases of women cross-dressing on ships we find a high proportion of instances where the crew all said what a marvellous sailor so-and-so was after their gender was revealed.

Bonny and Read art: The two small coloured pictures are the ones that appeared in the first edition of Johnson's General History, uncoloured. The ones currently displayed in GoF's first post I believe to be from the 1725 edition as I stated earlier. I've been sent a scan of the Bonny and Read engraving from an actual first edition of Johnson, so that clears that up at least. Das: I'm not convinced those are low cut shirts, rather I think they have long slits down the front. And yes, nobody can argue if you wear your hair down, though I doubt anyone would if you wore it up either. I've come across quite a few references to canvas trousers, as well as cotton ones. While the pictures do tend to show light coloured trouser I think anyone would be hard pushed to prove that darker or coloured ones aren't authentic As to how to tie scarves...how do you tie a piece of string? the engravings from Johnson do show scarves though (and they're the only period depictions of pirate head scarves I know of), so copy them and you can't go too wrong. Francois: Which navy are you thinking of when you talk about uniforms? The Royal Navy had no uniform at all until the mid-18th century for officers and mid 19th for ratings. I don't know of earlier naval uniforms for other nations, but I could be wrong. I've got a load more pictures of period sailors' clothing, but I'll post them in a seperate message...coming soon...

The cuffs look to me like mariners' cuffs. The seem to have small openings at the wrists like partially unbuttoned mariners' cuffs, but since I can't make out any buttons going further up it's difficult to say. The hats I've always taken to be battered felt round hats, since that's exactly what my battered felt round hat looks like. Beyond that I can only speculate. They might be the so called "Peter the Great" style, but I don't see it myself. :)

It almost certainly means they were wearing the long trousers which were becoming fashionable amongst seamen at that time. See the Guayacil and Bonnet execution engravings I posted above. It's probably artistic licence to show they are women, but just possibly it might be a depiction of shirts with very open necks. In Swift's "Gulliver's Travels" of 1726 Gulliver is tied to the ground by his long hair, indicating that at least one GAoP period seaman had long and loose hair

I've just remembered that I know a fella with a first edition of the General History. I've emailed him asking if he could scan the Bonny and Read pictures. If he does I'll post 'em here.

I think we need some clarification on the Bonny and Read pictures. I'm given to understand that the ones GoF posted can be found in the 1725 Dutch edition of Johnson (Historie der Zee-Rovers). Are these the first English edition pictures? Just to throw some more pictures into the melting pot: Detail from the hanging of Stede Bonnet, as depicted in the 1725 Dutch edition of Johnson. Detail from the hanging of Captain James Lowry, 1752. A bit late, but nonetheless a pirate related picture, heavily based on the Bonnet picture. Detail from a contemporary engraving of Woodes Rogers' privateers at Guayacil Detail from a contemporary engraving of Woodes Rogers' privateers at Guayacil English seamen in the frontispiece to England's Safety; or a Bridle to the French King by Captain Geroge St. Lo, RN, 1693. I'm pretty sure those are checked aprons they're wearing.

With you. Actually, I'm not sure there is a hell of a lot of detail to get anyway. See my comments about smocks below. If you look at pictures from a range of periods there is a definite trend toward smocks for seamen. The earliest clear pictures of these come from de Bry's engravings of the late 16th century (though they can be found less clearly depicted in much earlier pictures, going well back into the 15th century), then they can be found in paintings and engraving right through the 17th century (including van de Velde's for example), into the 18th (Hogarth's Idle Apprentice etc), the 19th (a million and one pictures from that period), and well into the 20th - I bought one a couple of years back in a yacht shop. Sure, there are slight changes and modifications over the years, but essentially they stay more or less the same. Loose and fairly baggy, long sleeves, opening at the neck like a polo-shirt. Now, many of the early pictures of short seamen's jackets look a lot like smocks with a full opening at the front, or a sort of smock-coat hybrid. From the mid-late 17th century it's possible to trace the development of the seaman's coat into the pea-jacket (which term was in use definitely in the 1730s at least) of Nelson's time. In terms of length, all the pictures of seamen's jackets I can think of show them the same length, more or less, all the way round, all but one of the pictures of smocks too (and I'm not convinced about the odd one, it may be the way he's stood) and later pea-jackets were certainly the same length all the way round on the whole. thus, I reckon, that if you're making a seaman's jacket it should probably be the same length all the way round. If you look at this picture for example (teehee, I'm gonna post it anyway ) you can see a: the coats are the same length all the way round, and b: if they stitched the front up they'd look like smocks: short, loose, not particularly shaped etc. I think they were more or less specific to seamen. Other people had short jackets, but in a different style on the whole. In terms of patterns, for GAoP I think we're looking more at opened seaman's clothes rather than shortened civilian clothes. I'm not suggesting for a minute by the way that all seamen's coats were the same, I'm positive there were variations from different times, places, and individual tastes, but generally speaking I think what I said above is borne out by the pictures.

All traditions have to start sometime. Many people quote this "tradition" of wearing earrings as being why pirates did, but none of them seem to know when the tradition (as opposed to general fashion) began. The limited research I've done into the origin of the tradition, and the opinion of those whom I've spoken to and who have an opinion, is that it seemed to have started amongst sailors involved in the California Gold Rush. So, if that's correct (and nobody's convinced me otherwise) earrings are completely authentic for Howard Pyle's period, but not for GAoP.

I'd forgotten what a good picture that is until you inspired me to take another look at it! Thanks!

OK guys, I'll see what I can do. I don't know when I'll next be seeing my grandmother, but as soon as I can I'll email stuff. Just to let you down gently Josh, I don't recall much info on hats if any in Cut of Mens Clothes, but I might have some stuff elsewhere myself. I'm not sure about mariners' coats being long in front and short at the back particularly, most of the pictures I've seen show roughly the same length all around. There aren't a lot of pictures of sailors' coats from the GAoP that I know of, and it's a pity you don't like the Guayacil engraving (with the chicks getting frisked), 'cos that's the only one I can think of which gives a decent view of the back of a coat from that period. The only other near-period picture I can think of showing the back is a painting by Gabriel Bray of a seaman of the Pallas leaning on a gun in 1774-75. I still reckon that the engravings of Bonny and Read from Johnson's General History are among the best depictions of GAoP sailor's clothing

I'm not sure that de Grammont was in the French Navy (I forget), but he did have dinner at John Evelyn's house with the notorious Colonel Blood. If we believe the Misson story (which I do not personally) then he was in the French navy. Corsair, Avery may have been in the navy but he didn't sail under a black flag did he? <private joke> Actually, I really should have thought of Avery myself. I'm doing some work on pirates in ballads and have made an interesting connection. The song "High Barbary" may well date back to the 17th century, and one particularly early set of words includes the ship Prince Rupert. There has only been one Rupert in the Royal Navy, launched in 1667 and the ship on which Avery apparently served. So, early in his career the "Arch-Pirate" may have served as a pirate hunter. Out of interest, most of the voyages to the Mediterranean made by the English navy of that period were commanded by Admiral Sir Thomas Allin, himself a former pirate... Actually, the story of Avery illustrates the point I was trying to make in my earlier post, that even if someone served on a merchantman or privateer immediately before becoming a pirate there's no reason to suppose they didn't serve on a Royal Navy ship before that. Unless someone is prepared to research the life history of every pirate we know of then I suspect that a lot more served in the RN at some point in their careers than we imagine.

My grandmother has a copy, which I know for a fact she won't part with, but if you let me know what sort of things you're interested in I *may* be able to borrow it long enough to scan a few pages for you. .

Although the earliest issue of rum to the Navy can possibly be dated back to 1655 (when Englishmen captured Jamaica), beer remained the official issue until 1831, though it could be substitued by wine or spirits (not just rum) at the Captain's discretion. The first Navy-wide issue of rum only dates to 1844 Thus, while "grog" certainly isn't authentic for GAoP, drinking beer certainly is (one gallon per man per day), and there is no reason to suppose that watered down rum isn't either. Vernon didn't invent grog, he just made it official and gave it a name.

One important thing to consider is that for many men who weren't of commissioned rank the RN was simply a job, not a career. Men could move in and out of the Navy as their service was required. One year Jack Matelot was aboard a merchantman, the next he was in the RN, the next voyage he went on might br a privateering trip, then back in the Navy, then on a merchantman but pressed at the Nore into the Navy again, then a merchant trip to Bermuda, then captured by pirates, and finally execution dock. Was he a merchant seaman or a Navy seaman? Neither, he was just a seaman. This of course doesn't apply to commissioned officer, middies, lieutenants, captains etc, nor to some warrant officers; boatswain and master, plus perhaps their mates. It could however apply to any of the men, plus many of the lower officers and artisans. Out of period, and off topic really, but I can't resist sharing this. Vice-Admiral William Monson writing of his expedition against Irish and Scottish pirates in 1614: "Being now come to the well-head of all pirates and being desirous of resolving myself, as well by some act of heresay, of the conditions of those people of Boradhaven, as soon as I came to an anchor I made choice of such persons of my company as formerly had been pirates, to give the less suspicion of my purpose..." Whether RN men became pirates may be debateable, but the opposite was apparently true!