Capt. Sterling Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 And why on earth would they remove the wheel from the ship?? If you would really like to stretch it the bell MAY have been removed with the glass to keep the watchs going, as a careening camp would be more work related and guard duty may have even been posted if they felt the possible threat of being discovered and overtaken... but the wheel? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Aye, a bell would be nice, and an hour glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Easy, Sterling, that there be sarcasm. Hmmmm...ship's bell and time...new research: When did the bell system come into use? Edit: From the official Navy history site: Here. "One of the earliest recorded mentions of the shipboard bell was on the British ship Grace Dieu about 1485. Some ten years later an inventory of the English ship Regent reveals that this ship carried two "wache bells"." My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Easy, Sterling, that there be sarcasm. I had hoped as much, but I cannot tell you how many times I've seen them just propped up at events... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I know, it can be frustrating trying to be accurate, but the two talking about the wheel are two of the most desirous of having accuracy be one of the two main goals of the camp, the other being to have fun. Anyway, the manifest sites two "wache bells" so having one in camp and one on the ship would not be insupportable. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Man From the Sea Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Watches? Glass? Bell? Belay those thoughts lads! This aint no @#$%& navy. We be free men of the sea, an we do what needs doin' when it needs be done. Don't need no bells nor'll they be suffered. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be packin' a few sponge fer that dambed bell o' yours I already be packin me hanger an firelock fer anyone fool enough ta ring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Good points lad, but there was discipline even on Pyrate ships. Besides, if we keep time in such an audible manner it will draw attention to the camp and us handsome pyrates. At least until after closing time. Anyone striking four bells of the middle watch will be shot. (That's two AM for you lubberly types) My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 but there was discipline even on Pyrate ships I have to start with an asside.... When I was in the Army, one of our guys "On guard" (watching over us as we slept).... decided to smoke a joint.....Personnaly , I have nothing against the "smoking of the herb...." UNLESS.... You are "ON DUTY....." That said.... I figure in a carreening camp... we are "off" duty.... (Ok... I'm not saying nothing bout smoking herb or anything like that...If you do... and get caught.... not my problem....) I figure that on a Pyrate ship... there was discipline (and honnor) just because that was the way they delt with the world....... Another asside.... I was at a Rendezvoue ... someone stole a pair of fancy beaded moccasins and knife sheath... word went out... "we are not calling the cops..... if you get caught with them..... well you won't be able to call the cops.... (all the stuff got back... so it has a happy ending...) Translation.... what is yours is yours.... what is mine is mine... I don't think we have any thiefs going to PiP... but we also keep our eyes out for lightfingered individules that may go through camp..... )(for all there) I'm rattling..... but I kinda think we all agree..... Keep it cool.... keep it safe... and watch your brothers back....... (or sister; in Silkie's (and others) case......... Something like that........ Dang... didn't type out right...... blaine it on th' rum...... heck it's Friday night........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Man From the Sea Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 A bell ain’t nothin’ but a way for a fool who thinks himself master, to lease dogs fool enough to think him right. I'd rather face a rope than answer any damn bell. Save mayhaps the bell of a cannon. As to needin' somethin' callin' us attention, whose who be handsome will get their attention enough without. As for the rest of us, it will only serve to call attention to our resemblance to one Quasimoto (sp). And why wait for four bells, shoot em early whilst your still sober enough to hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I still think Pyrates worked by the "bell " (as a time system)..... It was something that they would have been use to doing......a way of keeping time.... and a fair division of time....... "Hey... I did my shift.... where the he49k is my replacement......" Not sure if we need a bell in camp tho..................... hey ... we're off duty....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 I'm for a bell in camp. Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I'm for a bell in camp. Did I mention, that I'm planning on bring a blunderbuss........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Man From the Sea Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 On a practical note, if we do have a bell then somebody has to stand watch and ring it at the right time. Something that seemed to confound Capt Sterling’s crew at reenactor fest. At PIP it would be nigh impossible, with all the distractions, and considering noone on that island cares about time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 We seem to have come upon subject that elicits strong responses both for and against. Personally I think that a bell would be a good, inexpensive addition to the camp, attract attention and serve to educate the public. And, if we determine through research that ship discipline would have been extended to shore watches, remembering that a careening camp is a working camp not shore leave, then it would be authentic and required for an acutal camp recreation. And, yes, we would have to have volunteers to stand bell watches, but only during public hours, 10 to 5 if I remember correctly. My occupational hazard bein' my occupation's just not around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brand Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 Arguments about discipline and order aside, a bell can be used as a tool of education, a method of time-keeping and an element of atmosphere. Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCholeBlack Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Watches? Glass? Bell? Belay those thoughts lads! This aint no @#$%& navy. We be free men of the sea, an we do what needs doin' when it needs be done. Don't need no bells nor'll they be suffered. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be packin' a few sponge fer that dambed bell o' yours I already be packin me hanger an firelock fer anyone fool enough ta ring it. if you can find a reference to back up that pirates didn't have discipline & didn't use a bell for time keeping please share it. Otherwise, we DO have references that prove the navy men & sailors on merchantmen used bells for time keeping & followed variations on discipline. Also lets not forget, you are all technically working, you're careening your ship. Like Captain Jim said, this isn't shore leave. Now I'll defend the use of the bell at RF2. It was an inside event. If you've heard a large bell before you know that it's hard not to hurt others ears indoors when ringing something meant to be heard outdoors. Perhaps you'll come to Port Washington Old Man (was your name greg, dean or glen, for the life of me I can't remember?). I'm sure there will be plentiful bell ringing going on in that outdoor event. "If part of the goods be plundered by a pirate the proprietor or shipmaster is not entitled to any contribution." An introduction to merchandize, Robert Hamilton, 1777Slightly Obsessed, an 18th Century reenacting blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Diamond Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 On a practical note, if we do have a bell then somebody has to stand watch and ring it at the right time. Something that seemed to confound Capt Sterling’s crew at reenactor fest. Careful where you be swingin', mate. A lot of quality material was pulled together very quickly by very few, in case you didn't notice how exhausted the Archangel crew was ~ a bit of tolerance, if you please. At PIP it would be nigh impossible, with all the distractions, and considering noone on that island cares about time anyway. From a marketing perspective, a bell is a very recognizable tone, which can serve to bring groups to areas for demonstrations, events, etc. i.e. "Be sure ye swabs be back when 4 bells are rung, for the attack on the fort" (or whatever). People may not have a watch, or forget the time, but they will remember when they hear the bell rung. Oooh, shiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 -removed- -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Agreed!! I don't plan to wear a watch all weekend.... VACATION!! Plus it's not like we need to break the D%^*% thing when you ring it!! Folks like it and it's also a good demo piece. Rats No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkie McDonough Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 If we have as m,any pirates as it looks like we will then the bell would be good if for nothing more than a change of shift. We don't all have to be at the camp all the time but we also don't all want to be out at the same time. As Rat's said, it is also good for getting attention for demonstrations and such. ....speaking of which ... Who has suggestions for demos and who has the skills to share? There was talk of a map of the place signs, banners and more. Is there anything I can help with? I have a fair hand and could easily create banners and such if needed. What of a song book? Shanties while working (between Hurricane's groups sets) and for after hours. Work? Mending sails making the flag, cooking etc. we can't all be laying around with rhum bottles scattered around our persons ...besides ...Patrick already does that one! Stories for the kiddies? I can tell them but can some one guide me to the entertaining ones? I know we are pirates but we can still be organized. it would be different if we were all there together. Since we are not together until the event we need organization. and dare I say it ...perhaps a few people to report to about different issues. Don't want to dump it all on one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 has to stand watch and ring it at the right time. Something that seemed to confound Capt Sterling’s crew at reenactor fest. At PIP it would be nigh impossible, with all the distractions, and considering noone on that island cares about time anyway. Actually we were only confounded as to the actual way of striking the bell as we had come across several ways to do so, we even put it to Foxe, who did give us his input but actually said it was a bloody good question. The fun part was, none of us had watches, except the First Lieutenant, but then he had to be dressed in ACW gear... Poor Pete would go nuts if, when done speaking with someone, he noticed the glass had already run out!! In our crew the glass and bell is our middies responsibility... they did not come with us that weekend, neither did the travers board nor log book to keep track of things... which would have all been part and parcel with keeping the time. Remember, we're talking pendulum clocks, don't work well on a rocking ship... Marine Chronometers don't come around until what 1735 and not perfected until something like 1759... and as Mistress Diamond pointed out about getting a lot done in a very small space of time, after that weekend, we've come to the conclusion that the bell needs to be more stationary in the bell tower, because once struck it swings back on itself, striking itself out of time. As for the glass it works perfectly...the bell needs a tad more work, which actually may only take a pinch of the pliers.. and note I did say MAY have been included in a careening camp... and as for Pat and his blunderbuss, hmmm gives me a great idea for a scenario, if he's up to some hand to hand... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 There are some good arguements for a bell in camp..... And it would add atmosphiere...... I'm just grumpy before my morning cuppa coffee.... so that was the "why"...to my blunderbuss post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Something tells me there will be plenty of blunder boomers in that camp!! As far as ideas for demos and scenarios, I doubt we will ever be at a loss. I personally take great pride in having been killed and or horribly maimed seven times (Seven different scenarios) in one day!! I'm wondering if another thread should be made for planning of demos and such?? BTW: Coffee sounds good right about now!! Maybe some highlander grog?? Rats No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 No, I'm serious Pat, do you or any in the camp know proper hand to hand, sword, oar, what ever you can get your hands on to fight with? OF COURSE as long as the event coordinators are okay with this?? Other than the look of your camp, has anyone come up with a scenario for the camp? I.e, will you all just be careening, getting drunk, or would you like to post guards because you've been forced to put in for a cleaning in a not so friendly area? Would you have been on the alert for redcoats and pirate hunters, or does the camp feel that they are far enough away from the rest of the world that we don't have to worry about such things? Are you planning on doing strictly demos, for example talking one to one with spectators about the camp and why it is as it is...history lesson? Or are folks planning on Living History, where spectators that come through feel like they've been thrust back into the time frame and pirates aren't breaking out of character to give lectures... Just wondering where things are headed as well as how things will look... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 .....twisted minds think a like!!! Capt Sterling Sir, I'll also be sending some PM your way! Rats No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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