Whydah Cartridge Box Replica

[Captain Midnight]

Gentlemen, thank you kindly for all of your accolades. It is my pleasure to try and give you all something that you can be proud of, and something as historically accurate as I can make it.

With that being said, it is true, as Blackjohn states, that the slats may not be part of the flap. But all of the evidence I have seen and studied suggests that they are. Please see my previous post in this thread detailing my reasoning behind this belief. I disagree with the idea that the slats formed some kind of divider inside the box, as there would be no reason for them to have stitch holes like they do if they were a divider. Those holes were used to fasten them to the leather somewhere. However, should anyone of us ever be able to study the original box or see photos of its interior construction, or be able to speak with some of the museum personnel who have, I would be more than happy to change my construction methods to match the original. Unfortunately, from what I understand, trying to get any definitive answer out of the museum staff is like "pulling hen's teeth", and we only have one photo of it that I am aware of, and it is a bit grainy and doesn't really reveal any true detail. I would love to actually speak with someone who had handled and studied the original, so that I could replicate it exactly. Until then, I am left with nothing but speculation, educated guesses, and sketches of a puzzle which is missing pieces to work with.

[michaelsbagley]

Gentlemen, thank you kindly for all of your accolades. It is my pleasure to try and give you all something that you can be proud of, and something as historically accurate as I can make it.

With that being said, it is true, as Blackjohn states, that the slats may not be part of the flap. But all of the evidence I have seen and studied suggests that they are. Please see my previous post in this thread detailing my reasoning behind this belief. I disagree with the idea that the slats formed some kind of divider inside the box, as there would be no reason for them to have stitch holes like they do if they were a divider. Those holes were used to fasten them to the leather somewhere. However, should anyone of us ever be able to study the original box or see photos of its interior construction, or be able to speak with some of the museum personnel who have, I would be more than happy to change my construction methods to match the original. Unfortunately, from what I understand, trying to get any definitive answer out of the museum staff is like "pulling hen's teeth", and we only have one photo of it that I am aware of, and it is a bit grainy and doesn't really reveal any true detail. I would love to actually speak with someone who had handled and studied the original, so that I could replicate it exactly. Until then, I am left with nothing but speculation, educated guesses, and sketches of a puzzle which is missing pieces to work with.

I may not have held it, but I have been within breathing distance of the pouch (give or take a glass barrier)... And unfortunately, the wooden slats are displayed seperately from the leather portion...

So even though the pouch is displayed in a case that allow and almost 360 view of it, it would be (as Cpt. Midnight says) still nigh on impossible to tell where exactly the slats should fit in.

I really need to get back to the exhibit and try and spend more time there.... And definately on a weekday where I don't have to fight with a crowd all pressing in to look at everything....

[Patrick Hand]

It will be kinda cool, to be able to compaire mine without the slats with the ones that do have the slats at PiP..... the flap on mine without the slats works just fine..... Hey.... Experimental Archology at it's best.......

We don't know for sure if they used slats or not..... so it's a good guess.....

But Captain Midnight's workmanship is still excellent........

[Rats]

How about throwing it on a canvas shoulder strap??

Too American Civil War???

I'm just starting to hate carrying so much gear on my waist (curse of the Sam brown belt etc). Which is why I was leaning toward a baldric for me blade... (Til I read the thread on the PB site that is)I just want to keep things to a minimum.

[William Brand]

Wait...what thread? Are baldrics out?

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I don't think baldrics are out... we have too much pictorial evidence of their use.

I would say that they were generally loosing the "fashion" race to the sword belt in the GAoP but not gone by any means.

The trick is figuring out how exactly a civilian sword belt is put together.

The easiest option is the baldric, and they have become probably a little over represented in the re-enacting community.

GoF

[William Brand]

I've read about half of the PB thread on the subject. I was just suddenly concerned that they were right out. The baldric is my preferred way to carry a sword out of sheer pragmatism. I like to be able to remove all of the deadlier aspects of my kit in one fell swoop.

But I digress. This thread is about the Whydah box.

I have to tell you this though. While I was in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam we couldn't take any pictures. I passed so many dutch paintings showing life at sea and dock workers ashore. It was pure torture to have so much evidence of the period before my eyes and not have a camera. They wouldn't allow them in the museum.

Pure. Torture.

[Patrick Hand]

The trick is figuring out how exactly a civilian sword belt is put together.

see ... this is where it gets "tricky"...... I wanted to attach a sword to my belt.... so how do I do so..... there are only a few ways to make it work.....

I can't "document" it..... and I used some French & Indain War examples to figure it out..... but it holds the sword exactly where I want it... and it works....

They wern't made in some Armory someplace.... best I can figure, is maybe they had a harnes maker make one, or they did it themselves..... and they were just made to do the job.....

Untill I can find a few good pictures of them.... variations and such.... I figure mine is as close as I can get......

Now back on topic.....

The cartradge boxes that Captain Midnight is making are really great.....

The only problem, is that like civilian sword belts.... they wern't all made in some armory somewhere.....

I didn't think about this untill tonight.......

Because Captain Midnight makes the cartradge boxes all custom, I shoulda ordered mine undyed.... (I already had mine made without the slats)

A replica of the Whydah cartradge box is great..... but look at how many of us have them.....

Now it looks (well at PiP this year it will) like they were military issue.... (hey... we're all Pyrates.... and this is what we were issued..... something kinda like that.......)

Dang... I'm not doing good with this.....

But there are the cartridge boxs from Deerfield, that French one and the Whydah,. and they all look simular........ yah... and they are all black.......

OK... I'll stop now......I'm rambling......

Captain Midnight's work is still excellent........

[Cascabel]

A replica of the Whydah cartradge box is great..... but look at how many of us have them.....

Now it looks (well at PiP this year it will) like they were military issue.... (hey... we're all Pyrates.... and this is what we were issued..... something kinda like that.......)

I am in agreement with Patrick on this. This is where I have issues with a lot of reenactors. Someone turns up an actual period example of an item, such as this, or buckles, shoes, clothing items, etc., or finds one in a period painting, and there suddenly is far too many duplicates seen. It can be even worse with using poorly done woodcuts for documentation. Military issue is one thing, but when pirates, civilians, or other non-government type folks have duplicate items, it looks a bit odd.

I think genuine period examples are great when used as guidelines as to style, but I'm sure there were a whole lot of variations in existance, many of which were one of a kind. Of course, there is no proof or "documentation" of this, just simply common sense. The fact that so many non durable items made of leather and cloth are incomplete or no longer exist for documentation leaves it neccessary to make use of conjecture and a good sense of "what would work" when we make our items.

>>>> Cascabel

[Capt. Sterling]

I have to tell you this though. While I was in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam we couldn't take any pictures. I passed so many dutch paintings showing life at sea and dock workers ashore. It was pure torture to have so much evidence of the period before my eyes and not have a camera. They wouldn't allow them in the museum.

Pure. Torture.

Aye but don't you sketch? a trip to a museum... always carry pencils and pad

[William Brand]

We were limited on time. It was during a layover at Amsterdam and I needed at least a full ten minutes to stand in front of the Night Watch by Rembrandt and the model of the William Rex.

"Two things distinguish the William Rex, a 4 1/2 meter long model of a Dutch warship, built in the late 1600's: first, the incredible level of detail, and second, the fact that there was never a ship called the William Rex, the model was built to show off and pay homage to William of Orange."

Four and a half meters long...

[theM.A.dDogge]

But MOST importantly.....

1.) I had mine........ before Mad Dog got his! 

 

Oh yes...I forgot to mention this in my review. I got mine before Mad Dog as well. Evidently he's the man to beat.

yeahyeahyeah.....if i'm not AT the bottom of the list...then i am NOT on the listr atoll....

[Patrick Hand]

then i am NOT on the listr atoll.

Ain't that somewhere in the South Pacific...... kinda close ter Fiji..........

[Capt. Sterling]

yeahyeahyeah.....if i'm not AT the bottom of the list...then i am NOT on the listr atoll....

Last but never least...

[Rats]

Oh man.....I'm sorry......We luv you man........

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Well I am on the list too....

But I have to say, its not that i necessarily want to wear the thing... i just want to own a nice replica/copy of the Wydah box.

I understand the feelings of making it appear as if it was a standard pirate issue item though...

GoF

[Gsc]

BE CAREFUL!!!!! I contacted Capt. Midnight to have one made...sent payment... I got ahold of him sometime later and he said box was done and going to be shipped... THIS WAS WELL OVER A MONTH AND A HALF AGO.... USPS Priority Mail only takes 2-3 business days.

I have tried REPEADLY to contact him through BOTH pm's & emails... He has NOT responded to either after many tries. I am really bummed out...he seemed like a nice guy....

Has anyone else had this problem?

Capt. Midnight PLEASE contact me through email...

[William Brand]

You are the first and only one that I know of to have a problem.

[Mary Diamond]

Hi Gsc,

Early in this post, you can read that MadDogge had a similar experience (with regards to the delay), but he did receive his box.

I have seen the box, it is lovely and extremely well crafted.

I would advise patience ~ while there definitely seems to be a delay on occaision, I have yet to hear of non-delivery.

[Gsc]

I fully understand...everyone else has had great experiences.

My issue IS, I was told mine was made and was being shipped off (a VERY long time ago). I have sent MULTIPLE emails/pms and no response... I was hoping he'd see this thread and shoot me a pm or email letting me know he just mailed it out...or at least an explanation for the missing box... crap, I'd even take my money back at this point... I just hate to loose that money....

I'm sure he's a great guy...just my experience has not been favorable... PLEASE contact me Capt. Midnight.

Graham

[willie wobble]

i also sent payment to mr.midnight back on may26 and july 20 he posted that my box was next to be crafted , i have e- mailed twice since then as to an update with no responce back , i am still waiting to hear from him one way or another. captain if your still working on it can you let me know. i was hoping befor PIP.

[Captain Midnight]

I would like to inform everyone that as of today, I will no longer be accepting orders for the Whydah cartridge box replicas. I have been overwhelmed with orders, and when trying to work alone and fill them all by myself, it is too much for me to handle. I have to squeeze my time to work on the cartridge boxes between my mundane life and job and family responsibilities, so sometimes I fall behind. I am making every effort to satisfy all remaining orders for the boxes. Willie Wobble's box was mailed out this morning. You should have it in time for PiP.

If I still owe you a cartridge box, be PATIENT. I will get it to you as soon as I am able. I am leaving for Iraq sometime in January/February, so I will have the others done by that time.

All of you that have ordered from me in the past, I thank you sincerely for your business and your patience. I wish all of you the best!

[willie wobble]

WOW!! it was worth the wait , the craftmanship is top notch ,it didn't get here by the time i left for PIP but i had enough other STUFFFF that was ok midnight and i do understand sometimes life gets in the way of our hobbys .thank you very much , willie wobble

[michaelsbagley]

Bump...

After playing around with this for the last few weeks, I have finally made a couple of prototypes of my own version of the Whydah shot pouch. I'm also going to start taking orders in case there is anyone interested.

There are a few differences between what I came up with and Capt. Midnight's version...

Below are some pics of the first two I made. I will be offering them in natural leather, brown, and black. I will be asking $40 fot the natural leather, the black or brown will be $45. Shown below are the natural and the brown. I will consider other colours if there is serious interest (more than three people). Shipping is not included, and I won't begin full production until after I get back from the Hampton Blackbeard festival at the end of the month. Please EMAIL meif you are interested... You can click on the EMAIL button at the bottom of this post, or enter michael AT re-enactmentevents DOT com straight into your email program.

IMPORTANT!!! My PM box is almost full from stored messages, so please DO NOT PM ME as there is a good chance I will not get the message.

Back to the pouch, it is made from natural veg tan leather, hand sewn with heavy hemp thread, and the box is made from bass wood. The dimensions are approx 6 inches wide (15 cm), 2.5 inches thick (6.5 cm), and about 3.75 inches tall (9.5 cm). It will fit onto a 2 inch wide belt (and it is stiff yo get it onto a 2 inch wide belt, or (and I am guessing here) a 1.75 inch baldric. And now onto the pics...

For more pics, visit these links....

Natural Coloured Shot Pouch inside

Another pic of the natural cooured pouch

Back of the brown shot pouch

Inside of the brown shot pouch

Please post any general questions here... Hope some are interested in this..

[Dutchman]

mr. bagley,

i was not aware you were headed to our waters. please be so kind as to call upon me when you arrive. especially if you have that box with you- i'm definitely interested. i believe i'll be sleeping on the long boat dock or maybe in one anchored out by this point.

-dutch