Pyrate Camp 2007

[Captain Jim]

Keystone, as in Kops?

[William Brand]

Keystone, as in Kops?

No.

Some more classical names...

ARGO: Greek myth name of Jason's ship.

NAGELFAR: The ship that will carry the dead to Ragnarok.

PRYDWEN: Name of King Arthur's ship in Culhwch and Olwen.

PALINURUS: The helmsman of a ship of the adventurer Aeneas, whose descendants would one day found the city of Rome.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I am late to the party... and due to my location and time of year for the event, I might never make it there... so take everything I say with a grain of salt....

(not that you guys don't do that already!

I am not sure PIP is ready for a set date... even in the camps.

Historical Piracy re-enacting is still pretty much a new thing for a lot of people, and, with so many different interest within the group of folks trying to be more authentic, it will only serve as a limiting factor.

You would probably be much better off with a sign that said "golden age of piracy 16XX-17YY (and when we who KNOW this stuff can agree on the XX's, we will fill them in.

Then within the camp area, each individual, or unit could put a wooden sign up that says "Buccaneers 1688", "Morgans Men 1670", "Crew of the Watchdog 1704" or whatever interest they have.

Expecting everyone to be homogeneous this early in the game will probably be expecting way too much.

Ship Names

Not all the names were the "menacing" type like Devil's Thunder etc.

A lot were pretty benign, and I have always been attracted to those names as, its historical, and, its another educational tool for those that think they already know everything about pirates....

How about

"The Fancy"

Greg

[Jack Roberts]

How about

"The Fancy"

Sounds to much like the other end of Duval st.

Just kidding Greg, I mean no offense. I couldn't pass it up.

Back on topic. I like the Damned Compass. It may be a little PoTC but that might be a good "hook" for the public. Help them start to relate to what we are presenting. The most exposure of pirates for the public has been those movies. It might just help. Just my 2 pieces of eight.

[hurricane]

Foxe is right.

If you want to stay period most ships didn't have menacing names... Bonaventure, Thriver, Sea Horse, America, Griffon, Adventure Galley, James come to mind. I would think a smart pirate would want an ordinary name so as not to draw attention of the navy or other enemy.

True, not as romantic. But more historically on target.

-- Hurricane

[Hawkyns]

Agreed on the ship names, lets drop the pollywood idea of being menacing in favour of being right.

And i guess that brings up a question, for me anyway. Are we going to go the extra mile and actually jury the camps and people who live in them in advance, so that we are historically correct? That was one of the reasons I decided not to go this year, just too many questions about what would be happening. (That and the chance to live in the settlement at Jamestown for a few days at the same time as PiP).

As far as dates, if we are sticking with GAoP, I would be in favour of keeping it looser- the 16xx to 17yy combination. Otherwise we are going to have a lot of people whose kit does not exactly match the dates being portryed.

Hawkyns

[hurricane]

I doubt jurying would be appropriate this early on in designing the encampments. First, many people are just learning how to do things correctly and learning from those who are already farther along the path. Second, I think it would be follow to reject someone trying to make a good faith effort after they've spent all their money to fly and travel to Key West. There are no pleasant alternatives if one is not allowed to camp on site once they get there. And there are no sheltered areas away from the main camp area.

That's really up to Harry, but I think his goal right now is to expand as much as possible and adjust as we go.

-- Hurricane

[William Brand]

The prefered goal for jurying is three years out, with the next three years in this order.

Year one (2007): Strong encouragement towards period appropriate gear, but with a mindset on recruitment first. We must increase our overall numbers for the sake of the festival. Quantity first. Then Quality in the near future. Please choose people who show the enthusiasm to work and play well together.

Also, as always, an emphasis should be made on group discussions leading up to and during PIP of 2007. Ongoing education through group and individual exploration of period texts and archeology, but leaning towards enthusiasm before perfection. Those with a marked understanding of period clothing should always encourage new attendees to take pride in a carefully selected kit, while maintaining their enthusiasm to a sometimes costly hobby.

Year two (2008): Correction of gear through instruction and alteration. Open encouragement to change non-period gear in preparation for a living historical camp in 2009. A few added restrictions on very obvious and inaccurate portrayals or camp gear. An added emphasis towards regular attendees on improving their personal kits. Hands on workshops in the form of sewing circles, craftsman workshops, etc. Open invitation to sutlers of period accurate wares.

Recruitment should continue year to year, and like discussion and education, it should never be replaced.

Year three (2009): A code of appropriate clothing based on the discussion, alteration and education from the previous two years. Possible judging prior to event through a selected, hand-picked circle of attendees.

This is a porposal open to alteration. This allows us three years to perfection with a set goal in mind and a level of accuracy to climb to by degrees. Perhaps fours or five years might be necessary, but goals both short term and long term will vastly improve the outset of the festival.

Education and recruitment should be the watchwords of every year. New people. New kit.

[Captain Jim]

As always, William nails it on the head. An excellent plan.

[Silkie McDonough]

We need to keep in mind those who may want to attend starting after 2009 and any cost to them if we choose to jury the camp.

Also keep in mind that if someone wants to be a Hollywood pirate they are welcome to play at the fort but they may not stay at the fort.

This brings a question to mind. This may be a non-issue but I shall ask it just the same.

Skirmishes/Battles. Should we consider what involvement non-camp persons will have. We recruited several Hollywood pirates for one battle and they had a grand time. Most did not use black powder and were kept behind those who were firing. I have several thoughts on this.

-It looks impressive from the ramparts.

-It encourages dress and involvement from the patrons.

-It allows some one on one exposure to "authentic" pirates.

I can see no reason to exclude them.

[William Brand]

I think the proposal should reflect the camp first, since the short term goal is to teach and educate. A period accurate attack force should be a long term goal, and only when we have sufficient numbers. The public wants to see volume and flash when it comes to the battles. If accuracy was applied to the fort battles, we would have next to no one on the field, and that would be a shame.

Actually, if accuracy were applied back in 2005, Patrick would have been the only suitable re-enactor in the fort, for neither Mike, Andria or I had accurate and complete kit. Patrick would have been the one lone camper on the field.

There is something to be said for heart. Those who come after we have set up the period restrictions, will be encouraged and assisted by those who came before. Restrictions will never exclude people if we all do our best to help new people from the get go. Help people find good kit from the start and they need never replace it.

Also, we should all be encouraged to make extra kit over time. As our kit gets worn out year to year, we can pass it along to other attendees. They'll look like well worn and able seamen. Our old clothes will just make the experience look that much more authentic on new recruits.

[Captain Jim]

I imagine that this is not a problem for other reenactment groups, in that a whole regiment of folks don't show up to a Civil War reenactment and want/expect to take the field or even expect to be invited to participate. And come equipped with blades and black powder weapons, no less. At pyrate gatherings all kinds of folks show up ranging from the rediculous to the sublime and sometimes both extremes at the same time. An example:

Obviously she has no place in any attempt at an authentic camp (except maybe after dark...OK, ok, Bad Pyrate) But this is the starting point for a great deal of our patrons and potential recruits: Hollywood and Vine.

So how do we get them from there to here when there is so far away? Other reenactors recruit from folks interested in history while we recruit largely from a group hooked on the imagined romance of the sea and Errol Flynn...I mean Johnny Depp (letting my age show again...). We must do it by having fun and showing them that there is more to pyracy than Hollywood and Depp, and that reenacting pyracy is even more interesting and enjoyable than an occasional Hollywood night out, the bonus being that they don't even have to give up the Hollywood/Halloween aspect. But if we are clear up front then they will understand that they can't continue to bring Hollywood to camp.

Accuracy is good and should be the ultimate goal. Eventually when we recruit someone at PiP or another camp we can set them on the path to the dark side with a whole year to prepare and more resources and connections than most of us had at the beginning. We can keep them from making the expensive mistakes in kit that we made and make the whole learning process more enjoyable.

Eventually when the camp has reached a high level of authenticity and a certain sustainable mass we will have to clamp down and start refusing camp space to folks who have shown no effort to adhere to the standards. But as William and Hurricane have both said, now is not that time. Eventually, inevitably but not yet.

[Harry]

All comments thus far are right on the money. The picture posted above is obviously NOT what we are striving for. If memory serves me, she was a partner of one of the sutlers. Which brings to mind another question: While everyone here is on track for for the camp portion, what are your thoughts about how the sutlers present themselves? My sense is that all would like to see the sutlers conform as we do. If that's the consensus, I can make that happen by informing potential merchants that they must be in period clothing--not Hollywood/Halloween clothing.

Harry

Fort Taylor.org

[Captain Jim]

The smoke and fire guys were spot on, as was the guy with the cannon (mostly.) I think that sutlers should play along. Less renn-fair costumes.

[kass]

Don't know if this matters to anyone, but as a sutler, jurying the sutlers would encourage us to bring our shop.

As early as last summer, I was talking to my assistant about bringing the shop to PIP. But we sell reenactment gear, not touristy stuff, and I didn't know if it was a place we'd make money. Driving down from the Northeast with a trailer full of goods has to be worth our while for us to afford to take the risk.

I'd come as a participant whether it were juried or not. But to bring the shop, I have to expect to have customers, you know?

[Patrick Hand]

I'm not "gung-ho" about jurring. OK... say three years from now, we have a fantastic camp... someone new wants to join us, but thier gear and clothing is WAYYYYYYY OFFFFFF... I say let them play, everyone has to start somewhere.... We can teach them (in a nice way... not as a bunch of costume Nazis) and I'm sure the next year their stuff will be better.... I like the idea of helping potential new members, not getting so exclusive that we are turning people away.

I still strongly feel that having a specific date (1720) for the camp (in the back corner of the Fort) is the best way to go.(the rest of the Fort would have the 1675 to 1720 time line). It gives everyone in the camp a date and back story to work with. There is not that much difference in clothing and gear fron 1705 to 1720, so It's not as if everyone has to re-sew and build all of thier stuff. Having a specific date for the Pyrate Camp, 'Unites" us as a "Crew" from a Pyrate ship instead of just a bunch of Pyrates hanging out and camping in the Fort.

[kass]

How I've always dealt with new people who don't have the right kit is loaner gear. I almost always carry extras with me. And oftentimes a person's current gear can be rearranged to look more authentic without actually changing anything. I'd be happy to help people in this way.

Please know that I'm not suggesting that the entire fort be juried. And perhaps jurying is too stringent. I don't think I've ever actually been to a juried event before... :)

I just know that I will sell more at an event interested in historical stuff than interested in, as Captain Jim put it, "Hollywood and Vine".

[Captain Jim]

No one is probably going to show up to camp inside the fort that isn’t familiar with this forum so they should know what they are getting into and make some effort to look period. So if they are way off still, we’ll help them out with loaner gear. Or Kass can sell them a basic kit off the rack (Kass?).

I agree let them play, but the camp must have a minimum standard. To begin, there is that tent question. Obviously no nylon. (Rusty had a bivy sack to sleep in and it disappeared each morning. Come to think of it Rusty disappeared each night. Hmmm…) Since this is supposed to be a careening crew, do we allow tents at all, or should all shelter be made of readily available boat supplies, canvas, rope, iron spikes etc.? Radical, perhaps, but an interesting idea. Rusty plans to bring a pulling boat and tarp over that next year.

The way we set up camp costs next to nothing, tent-wise, so there is really no reason not to buy a cotton drop cloth and join us. For a makeshift ground cloth a sheet of plastic under another drop cloth. Not really period but neither are the fillings in your teeth; No one is going to look at either of those places (I hope.) Or you can make one with linseed oil and turpentine like Patrick and I have. Stakes, poles and the like can be borrowed from the fort or purchased at Home Depot and donated to the fort when you fly home.

Hotels in KW cost $350 and up a night. A four night stay is $1400. Staying at a campground costs $40-$50 a night, plus a rental car or cab fare to the fort, $400. Canvas, rope and stakes to make a careening camp $70, tops, and you can purchase it when you get here if need be. Spend the money you save over camping outside the fort or on hotel bills ($330 to $1330) on period kit.

You have 352 days left, so get cracking.

Kass’s operators are standing by.

[kass]

Thanks, Captain Jim. Your check is in the mail!

Seriously, we do have a plan to make basic sailors' kit available at a discounted price -- slops or trousers, choice of shirt, jacket or waistcoat, cap. So that's already in the works.

As for camp, the groups I'm in usually have a rule that everything in camp must be period-appropriate during public hours. After that, you can pitch a nylon tent in the middle of the encampment if you like (although some people would prefer you put it over to the side...). As long as everything modern is policed up before the public comes in, there's no issue.

In other news, we're soon going to have real hemp canvas and rope available too! :)

[Patrick Hand]

do we allow tents at all,

I'd say we do allow canvas tents that look right (not nylon dome tents)... William isn't going to not use the one he bought.... So we have some people that have tents, no reason for them not to use them.... but if someone dosen't have a tent, it's much cheaper just using a tarp.....

There will always be some "slippage" in historical accuracy.... A Pyrate crew carreening thier ship probably would not have tents, but some reenactors do have tents (and thier wives or girlfriends might insist they bring them )

We can't get too "rabid" about total accuracy... hey.. my sail/tarp is cotton, and I really don't want to hand sew a new one out of hemp canvas

We will never get 100% authentic, That dosen't stop us from trying to get as close as possible, but there will always be some "slippage" (the ice chest hidden under a trap..... )

[Captain Jim]

In other news, we're soon going to have real hemp canvas and rope available too! :)

Yo, heard that. I need hemp rope for blocks and hemp canvas for a squaresail(?) and slops for next year. Price 'em right and I'm yours.

[kass]

I'll price 'em the best I can, Jim! Of course the more you buy, the better I can do on price.

But back to talking about PIP! What I mean to say is that if I bring my shop, I'll have hemp canvas and ropes on-site so people can buy what they need. And I promise not to price gouge just because I have a captive audience. The prices will be the same as on my website.

[Captain Jim]

do we allow tents at all,

I'd say we do allow canvas tents that look right (not nylon dome tents)... )

Yes I knew that would be the case, but still it would be nice to get away from tents altogether for our scenario. As it is, I am going to engineer some doors or front enclosure for the Oar House for the privacy. Also a shower enclosure to set up, at appointed times and for the use of all, around the beach showers. Maybe then my wife will accompany me next year.

[William Brand]

Patrick is right. I bought the tent for pirate events, so I would like to keep using it. However, the tent can be draped with an awning made of sewn canvas strips to make it look like sailcloth that has seen better days.

But no nylon.

[hurricane]

I think it is difficult to get spot - you will scare away a lot of reenactors who are just starting out and want to learn and participate. The three year plan is a good idea.

As for selling there Kass... you can make money. Most of our customers were the reenactors and we did fine. It was at least worth the trip.

Patrick, I think Harry had the last word on period. I know some of those without a regular crewe there want to feel like you are a crewe, but others who have actual crewes want to do their own thing and their own period. So I think Harry had the Solomon solution - that you guys can pick 1720, the Watchdog can do 1704 and my crewe can do the Henry Morgan buccaneer period (Port Royal - not Tortuga) - everyone's happy and the public will not only learn about pirates and buccaneers, but about the differences in times and periods.

As for the tents - I don't think it really matters as far as the public is concerned. To them a tent is a tent, whether it is sailcloth strung on poles, a lean to or a full tent. This is another slow lane process - some people have put a lot of money into their gear and more important, like it. Definitely no nylon modern tents at any time any where.

As for us, we'll be pitched under a canvas I believe on the other side. And if it rains we'll run for shelter under the fort. I slept there last year and it's quite comfy. :)

Finally, as for the sellers, I think they were just fine. Remember, a lot of these folks do an entire circuit in the south during the season and I'd hate to lose some of them as they had fine stuff - I certainly spent my share. So I don't think their spaces need work. I do however think they should be in period garb - or at least make an attempt. It adds to the air of the period.The "Bimbo Babes" were fun to look at but it cheapened the booths a bit.

-- Hurricane