Small arms

[Fox]

While looking for knots I stumbled across a table detailing the small arms carried on the various rates of RN vessels in 1702. A 28 gun sixth rate with a crew of 200 or less carried:

30 snaphanses

4 musketoons

8 pairs of pistols

10 bandoleers

30 cartouche boxes

1,000 flints

18 short pikes

4 bills

12 hatchets

15 swords

15 hangers

[macstink]

that's interesting, did it list the cannon sizes and swivel guns? i spose the muskets listed included those carried by marines?

[Captain Jim]

50 guns and 1000 flints? 20 flints per gun. Seems like a lot.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Very interesting, Master Foxe....

To me, those numbers seem rather inadiquate...

But then again, the RN were more able at broadsides, so I suppose the necessity of arms for a boarding party weren't top priority...

Those numbers make 106 weapons, Not including the personal weapons of the officers I would assume...

I also find it very interesting that Snaphanses are listed. Or were they considered a reliable lock being around for so long, they're 16th century in origin, I believe...

This also brings up another question in my mind... of that crew of 200 or less, how many would be used for a boarding party?

[Cascabel]

50 guns and 1000 flints? 20 flints per gun. Seems like a lot.

Seems like a lot until you think about being a long way from home port, and possibly in a hostile area. No muzzle loading supply dealers at the nearest strip mall. Flints don't take up much space, and are durable in storage. The small arms would be quite useless if you ran out because of heavy useage or a high percentage of breakage, which can sometimes happen due to variations in quality.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Fox]

I believe (though I couldn't quote sources) I've read that Napoleon's armies were issued with a flint for every five shot.

I wonder if the use of the word snaphanse is a typical case of 18thC imprecision in nomenclature or if it's a case of the Navy being issued the older weapons. Both are possible.

I don't think the list does include arms for the marines. The full list was a list of stores for the ship's gunner, who would not have had anything to do with them. At that time the marines were much more independent of the Navy than they are now.

The list does indeed mention the guns, but not swivels:

20 sakers (5 1/4lb)

4 minions (4lb)

4 3lbers

...oh, and 20 hand grenades

[Brit.Privateer]

For the Flints, I remember from Benerson Little's "Sea Rover's Practice" that a flint (most probable he meant a good one) lasted 20 "snaps."

Also, when the list refers to "4 bills," what are they talking about (I doubt they mean bellhooks)

[Patrick Hand]

Also, when the list refers to "4 bills," what are they talking about (I doubt they mean bellhooks)

I skipped fight past that..... but a billhook would be handy aboard a ship.... used the same as a boarding axe..... does anyone know if they are mentioned in "Boarders Away"?

[Fox]

I kind of assumed they were the polearms known as bills.

[Patrick Hand]

A billhook is just a farm tool for cutting brush and branches... slightly modified, into a polearm, it becomes a bill.......a weapon for cutting people.....

But both versions still would be handy for fighting aboard a ship...

Hummmm... just wondering about the length of the haft.....

[macstink]

hi ed,

where did you find this list? is there any chance you send it to me some how? i'd liked to have a good read of, it would help me with several little 'projects' i'm up to.

[Fox]

It came from The Sea Gunner's Companion (1702). I'll try to print the relevant pages off for you and bring them to Windsor.

[macstink]

It came from The Sea Gunner's Companion (1702). I'll try to print the relevant pages off for you and bring them to Windsor.

thanks ed. i'll only be at windsor on the fri 20th helping set up. i won't be staying

[Captain Tightpants]

Interesting list, Mr Foxe! Thanks for posting it!

That a 6th-rate ship of the line carried four musketoons is really rather cool. Talk about "deck-sweepers." It's like having four portable swivel guns.

That the snaphaunce was still issued surprises the hell out of me. Practically speaking, the snaphaunce was out of English weapons stores - except, perhaps, the county Trained Bands - by 1642. It was discarded in favor of what we commonly call the dog-lock. (Well, really, the matchlock, but that's a different path down the Orange school of infantry tactics and logistics.)

There were a few snaphaunce carbines issued to New Model Army dragoons in 1645, but I cannot imagine them being retained to equip the Royal Navy in 1702. Moreover, it is impossible that there would be enough still in serviceable condition for issue.

I think your analysis correct that this is one of those infuriating interchangeable terms. That's the only thing that makes sense. I suppose it could be argued that the other firearms are not referred to by lock type, while the snaphaunce is, but that is not compelling enough to overcome the above arguments (at least, not in my opinion, which, as you know, is meekly held! ).

[Fox]

Oh yes, your opinions are ever so meek!

Out of interest, third rates and above carried an equal number of blunderbusses and musketoons (5, 8, and 10 of each).

[Captain Tightpants]

Interestingly, this link shows what is obviously a blunderbuss (third item) listed as a musketoon.

This link purports to show the difference between them.

I didn't know there were such niggling differences.

Ed, can you shed some more light as to the differences?

[Fox]

Given the incredible inconsistency of 18thC nomenclature I doubt that there really were such petty definitions, though the writer of the Gunner's Companion was obviously able to differentiate between the two.

I have always taken the difference to be that musketoons tend to be slightly longer and less flared than a blunderbuss, but where one ends and the other begins I wouldn't like to say.

[Hawkyns]

Barrell length does seem to be the determing factor, if anything can be said to be. The shorter ones are blunderbusses or coaching guns, while the longer ones, say a barrel over 20 inches, seem to be referred to as musketoons. That seems in accordance with the info listed in Dewitt Bailey's book on pattern dates for English muskets.

Hawkyns

[Fox]

Quick look at the usual sources:

The anonymous Military Dictionary (1708) defines blunderbus: "a short fire-arm with a very large bore to carry a number of musket or pistol bullets, proper to do execution in a crowd, or to make good a narrow passage, as the door of a house, a stair-case, or the like."

Musketoon is defined as: "a short fire-arm with a very large bore to carry a number of musket or pistol bullets, proper to fire among a crowd, or to keep a pass. It is the same as a blunderbuss."

This latter sentence is at direct odds with the different numbers of blunderbusses and musketoons listed in the Sea-Gunner's comapnion, but it does support the notion that there were no cut-and-fast definitions for either.

Coles' Dictionary (1724) defines blunderbuss: "a large gun carrying 20 pistol bullets", but does not define musketoon

[blackjohn]

It's a little late, but I have a similar list for 74 guns ships in 1747. Interested?