Period Correct Cups, Plates, Tankards and Eating Stuff

[jendobyns]

OK, here's one for a start: http://www.nga.gov/e...ndez/index.shtm

You want painting #15, although the rest of his stuff is really cool (the cork "wine cooler" got a lot of attention with the RevWar folks)

Late for GAoP, the artist was born 1715. And I'm just starting to look for samples from earlier.

thanks jendobyns. these pictures are cool and it's extra nice that the paintings are Spanish!!

So... now I want to have a CHOCOLATE POT also...

Ah, yes, please let me know when you find a source for those*G*

And when I get my chocolate cakes to look like the ones in the paintings, I will be a happy woman indeed. Just need more practice with the right tools.

The source? That's easy it's already on this thread... My link ... scroll 2/3 down fore the 1703 version like on the paintings...

Oops, sorry about that, I was thinking ceramic! The copper are definitely available, and he does excellent work. I may just spring for one of Peter's, as the copper is so much more durable. My brain's just been stuck on ceramics lately, bein' a Redcoat officer's wife and all.

[jendobyns]

What about leather? I know leather predates the GAoP and leather hardening techniques have been around since midevil day.

The Royal Armories museum offers this one:

Royal Armories Meseum Shop

it states:

These handmade leather tankards are modelled on the shape of tankards recovered from the Mary Rose, Henry VIII's flagship.

however I have not seen nor read anywhere of their findings after 1500/1600 ?

*************************

To reply to m'self, I just came across this "The History of Leather Drinking Vessels" on a UK page; they claim:

Later fashion, particularly in Tudor times, added a wider base, presumably to promote better stability as found with those discovered with the wreck of the Mary Rose.

However, use of the jack continued until Nelsons time when they were known as Boots, hence the naval phrase "Fill up your Boots" meaning "have a drink".

and they go on to say they were still used in the 20th century and popular among the mining and steel industries; but I digress as we are all 'dead' by this time...

The History of Leather Drinking Vessels

Oh, those Royal Armories leather jacks are lovely!

[MarkG]

Oooh I forgot about this one.

The left is a wine serving cup and the right is a kind of decanter.

The one on the right looks like a measure to me. Probably a full pint.

Mark

[LadyBarbossa]

I also have a collection of assorted pewter and Wilton Armetale pieces that I use, some of it is in the picture below. I'm not sure of the time period the Wilton stuff is supposed to represent. Maybe someone here can comment on the period correctness of some of these items so others can get an idea. Most of the stuff here is from thrift stores and yard sales (including my not-so-rare solid bottom horn mug!) so getting a set together for re-enactment use isn't difficult.

Tis a nice table setting indeed, Iron Jon. I think Jen had hit as close to the nail as one can get. Pewter like this wasn't nailed down to a decade.

Iron Jon! That table looked a lot like mine this Xmas!

I regularly check a site online that sells 18th century pewterware, and have bought some in fact. The period pewter seems more plain, mostly with a plain border, no decoration or scallops. However, I like the fact that the Wilton isn't goin to cause me to be antimony or lead poisoned in some way!

(However I do use the period pewter once a year..I figure it won't kill me to use it that much! )

I'm thinking that the blue and white pottery that one sees in period paintings is not only Chinese but could also be Dutch Delftware.

When I put together my sort of PC pirate table..I'll be looking at the Blue Willow pattern dinnerware as well, since it's fairly easy to come by, and the blue and white pattern looks similar to the period.

But that's just me.

Aye, Gertie! I've found a couple pieces that can be close enough if not spot on! I recently purchased a plate from a thrift store that was white with the period appropriate blue florial design! It's perfect to the period style. Sometimes, you can find them. If I get the opportunity, I'll take a picture of the plate and post it here.

I have found that the pflatsgraf Yorktown and Villiage plates are pretty close, too. The yorktown more an off-white with a dirty blue painted floral while the village (which is what I have and have been using at events, even Rev War) are yellow with the same floral design but in brown.

PoD, I have not found anyone yet. But, perhaps you can check with Gibson Pewter. They specialize in Colonial Era pewter. Perhaps they can do a special order of that same fork for ye. It is a really nice fork. I wouldn't mind having a replica or few of that fork, either.

Generally I've been googling and finding a LOT of great stuff on period appropriate items for the table.

~Lady B

[callenish gunner]

[/img]

This is just a portion of the ware for the table we set. I've always liked to welcome guests with to a fine table and have them well fed.

A good supper and fine drynke; friends deserve nothing less

[callenish gunner]

This is just a portion of the ware for the table we set. I've always liked to welcome guests with to a fine table and have them well fed.

A good supper and fine drynke; friends deserve nothing less

Edited December 29, 2010 by callenish gunner

[PoD]

They have some really great reproductions at this place including some forks but not one that looks like the one pictured above:

http://www.amerheritage.com/salespages/pewter/aslpewter-1.htm

[LadyBarbossa]

Nice find, PoD! I like this place, too! Kudos, mate. :)

Wes! Look... SPOONS! Even forks. :)

~Lady B

[wes1761]

HA!! I see that! I am still trying to find time to cast some repops of the spoon I have. I'll try to get a pic posted....

Found a bunch of old pewter, might melt it down for the casting...or I'll just order ingots....

[Quartermaster James]

I dont suppose anyone knows anywhere that does a replica of a fork like this one do they?

Not exactly the same, but made from period molds: http://www.thomasdalecompany.com/as-flt6.html

[PoD]

I dont suppose anyone knows anywhere that does a replica of a fork like this one do they?

Not exactly the same, but made from period molds: http://www.thomasdal...om/as-flt6.html

Thanks i will be ordering that as soon as they open for business

[Quartermaster James]

Thanks i will be ordering that as soon as they open for business

Happy to help. I think it will go nicely with those spoons of yours.

When it arrives, can you PM me and let me know how much it weighs?

[PoD]

Thanks i will be ordering that as soon as they open for business

Happy to help. I think it will go nicely with those spoons of yours.

When it arrives, can you PM me and let me know how much it weighs?

yeah no problem. probably take a few weeks to get here

[Brit.Privateer]

It's me again, in quest of information again.

In my searches of this forum, online, and through the various databases I have access to online, it seems there is somewhat of lack in information on period cups and tankards. The only exception to this role appears to be a few pewter tankards discovered through archaeology. But I am more interested in the non-pewter kind. What kind of cup or tankard would a common person or sailor of the late seventeenth or early eighteenth century use? I've seen one or two very un-detailed pictures of cups, but these pictures often don't give details on their size or construction.

Have any of you done any kind of research relating to this? Some pointers on the subject to get me in the right direction would be very helpful right now.

[jollyjacktar]

I've got to be quick, but I know that a number of staved drinking vessels were found on sailing ships from the 16th through 19th centuries.

Yours & co

[Lawrence Brown]

Here is a leather jug dated to the 17th or 18th century (not very specific, unfortunately).

http://nms.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-100-002-786-C

I've seen similar ones dated just to the 17th century, though, like this one: http://www.bunrattycollection.com/search.php?i=143

[Littleneckhalfshell]

I have some pictures of staved drinking tankards, and a carved one, I will see if I can upload them. I believe one of them is from the Mary Rose, but all were period to my rememberance.

[Littleneckhalfshell]

Hope this works, been a while since I tried posting a picture.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Littleneckhalfshell

[Brit.Privateer]

Hope this works, been a while since I tried posting a picture.

Well, that's a start. I've seen the leather sort before, but as I said in the first post, I am more interested in the wooden kind. I would really like to see some documentation on seventeenth and eighteenth century cups and tankards though. I am surprised that I couldn't find any articles written in archaeology about the subject.

The one from the Mary Rose looks interesting.

[Brit.Privateer]

Well, I did find one thing that was kind of interesting. Horn Cups:

http://www.cottoneauctions.com/oldsite/old/images/TomWnuck/cups.jpg

they are from an Estate sale that have a lot of eighteenth century items. This lot is described as 1 horn cup with silver mount, and six horn cups.

The search continues.

[Brit.Privateer]

Digging deeper into my private collections, I did find a couple of pictures that might help. For one, the Mary Rose style tankard appears to have gone well into the eighteenth century, if we are to believe the accuracy of a picture "The Sailors Parting" by C. Mosely in 1743. I would post it, but having troubles with that right now. The picture is questionable because the picture shows a sailor and a lady on a unbelievably large gun duck (there is at least two feet of head room for someone standing) and a gun port that is less of a port and more of a very large window.

The other picture can be seen on Foxe's website here: http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL762/3253847/6655055/85754627.jpg Not sure if the sailors owned the cups though. Hard to tell based on these pics.

Also, been looking through the Port Royal findings that Texas A&M did in the 90s, and it seems like there were many more pewter mugs than I thought, and many stoneware ones as well. These studies also helped me clarify some terminology. A cup seems to be more defined as something holding around a pint or two of liquid. Mug or tankard is a tall drinking vessel, and is what I am more interested in documenting. And then there are flagons, which is more for pouring liquid into smaller vessels.

Any other contributions are still appreciated.

[Lawrence Brown]

On page 229 of "Early American Antique Country Furnishings" by George Neumann, there are pictures of two wooden tankards with bound staves and hinged lids, similar to the Mary Rose tankard, dated 1750-1780 and 1740-1790. The only differences that I could really see from the pictures are that the lids are slightly more domed and the handles are more square.

If you search for it on Amazon (ISBN 0517661837), you can search inside the book if you have an Amazon account. I just searched "tankard".

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

I have had a good deal of 16th - 18th Century drinking vessel research. THis topic motivated me to do something with it. Here you go! Have fun!

Drinking Vessel Research

[Brit.Privateer]

I have had a good deal of 16th - 18th Century drinking vessel research. THis topic motivated me to do something with it. Here you go! Have fun!

Drinking Vessel Research

That is A LOT of pictures for period drinking vessels. And you give a little bit of everything, wood, glass, pewter, and so on. Plus, those pictures will be useful for more than just mugs. Thank you for that Ivan.

Meanwhile, I somehow found a thread I missed before on sellers of various cooking and eating implements:

Didn't net me much new stuff for sources though for what I was really looking for, but turned up interesting stuff none the less. For instance, these sellers of mostly copper items on the bottom have some interesting iron flagon and a iron tankard from the mid 18th century (see the bottom of the page, "from our collection"): http://www.goosebay-workshops.com/CUPS-CANTEENS

And, for those interested in pewter tankards, flagons, and such; there is this: http://www.pewtertankardsflagons.com/index.php?p=1_7_British

well, onward with my search.

[Grymm]

In the UK either go to Reiver Trading or directly to A.E. Williams in Birmingham. Williams mould store is a treasure trove with moulds going back to 1620 maybe even earlier. Ignore the tourist tat on the website and talk to them direct.