Period Correct Cups, Plates, Tankards and Eating Stuff

[Korisios]

I also have a collection of assorted pewter and Wilton Armetale pieces that I use, some of it is in the picture below. I'm not sure of the time period the Wilton stuff is supposed to represent. Maybe someone here can comment on the period correctness of some of these items so others can get an idea. Most of the stuff here is from thrift stores and yard sales (including my not-so-rare solid bottom horn mug!) so getting a set together for re-enactment use isn't difficult.

I like your collection Iron Jon. Or shuld I say Tin Jon...

I belief this style of tinwares is what they call Country French...

[jendobyns]

My (limited) sources tell me that the shape is Queens shape (for the plates and bowls in the picture). Block molds *for ceramics* to cast elaborate shapes for plates, teapots, tankards, etc. had been established in use by the 1730's. This variation on an earlier, barley pattern style (where the plate rim was divided into sections where now you just see an indentation) appears to date later into the 18th century. Iirc, second half, 1760's or so.

I've seen this shape in metal (there's a still life or two that shows metal plates in this shape) but I seem to recall them being later half of 18C, too. Worth digging around in the arts sites. Lots to do, so I can't get into too thorough a search at the moment. Maybe when the dust settles 'round here and I can surf and dig in the books. I know of at least one pic in my collection here that shows it, by a Spanish artist.

Hope this helps somewhat!

I also have a collection of assorted pewter and Wilton Armetale pieces that I use, some of it is in the picture below. I'm not sure of the time period the Wilton stuff is supposed to represent. Maybe someone here can comment on the period correctness of some of these items so others can get an idea. Most of the stuff here is from thrift stores and yard sales (including my not-so-rare solid bottom horn mug!) so getting a set together for re-enactment use isn't difficult.

Edited December 22, 2010 by jendobyns

[wes1761]

Jendobyns...no sweat on sharing info, glad to help a fellow Pirate! You guys cover shipping and material and I'm happy....

[jendobyns]

OK, here's one for a start: http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2009/melendez/index.shtm

You want painting #15, although the rest of his stuff is really cool (the cork "wine cooler" got a lot of attention with the RevWar folks)

Late for GAoP, the artist was born 1715. And I'm just starting to look for samples from earlier.

I also have a collection of assorted pewter and Wilton Armetale pieces that I use, some of it is in the picture below. I'm not sure of the time period the Wilton stuff is supposed to represent. Maybe someone here can comment on the period correctness of some of these items so others can get an idea. Most of the stuff here is from thrift stores and yard sales (including my not-so-rare solid bottom horn mug!) so getting a set together for re-enactment use isn't difficult.

Edited December 22, 2010 by jendobyns

[jendobyns]

art with metal and ceramic shapes for plates, etc:

Date range 1600-1700: http://www.vads.ahds.ac.uk/large.php?uid=86694&sos=2

While the date is early, I find it interesting that the blue and white ceramics are painted (and possibly shaped) like later period ceramics:

http://www.vads.ahds.ac.uk/x-large.php?uid=89508&sos=2

I think these would most likely have been Chinese in origin.

After surfing around looking at other still life paintings, the majority of earlier period pewter plates (no bowls seen at all in pewter) seem to be basic, un-ornamented round shapes. I do know an archaeologist who would be familiar with artifacts from the period and will check in with her over the holidays to see what she says. It'll be interesting to find out.

Very interesting to see that Wilton calls this pattern Country French. The pics I"ve found of anything close to that so far have been Spanish *G*

[Quartermaster James]

I think much of what Iron Jon has is actually Wilton's Queen Anne pattern.

Country French is a different, although somewhat similar pattern.

The two are often confused, especially on eBay.

Wilton Queen Anne Pattern

Wilton Country French Pattern

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Iron Jon! That table looked a lot like mine this Xmas!

I regularly check a site online that sells 18th century pewterware, and have bought some in fact. The period pewter seems more plain, mostly with a plain border, no decoration or scallops. However, I like the fact that the Wilton isn't goin to cause me to be antimony or lead poisoned in some way!

(However I do use the period pewter once a year..I figure it won't kill me to use it that much! )

I'm thinking that the blue and white pottery that one sees in period paintings is not only Chinese but could also be Dutch Delftware.

When I put together my sort of PC pirate table..I'll be looking at the Blue Willow pattern dinnerware as well, since it's fairly easy to come by, and the blue and white pattern looks similar to the period.

But that's just me.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Gunpowder Gertie

[Korisios]

OK, here's one for a start: http://www.nga.gov/e...ndez/index.shtm

You want painting #15, although the rest of his stuff is really cool (the cork "wine cooler" got a lot of attention with the RevWar folks)

Late for GAoP, the artist was born 1715. And I'm just starting to look for samples from earlier.

thanks jendobyns. these pictures are cool and it's extra nice that the paintings are Spanish!!

So... now I want to have a CHOCOLATE POT also...

[Brass]

Indeed Ms Dobyns, great reference material. Good show and thanks for sharing!

Brass

[jendobyns]

I just love Julia's stuff. Have a few pieces of it 'round here, they are all beautiful. And she is such a nice person!

Your one stop shop for all your clayware needs...

http://www.juliasmit...istoricpottery/

And who said the 17thC/18thC was drab... good lord... what wonderful colors... if you ever find yourself on Cape Cod, in Sandwich, make sure you visit the oldest house there. It's from the mid-to-late 1600s, and the color scheme is out of this world.

[jendobyns]

OK, here's one for a start: http://www.nga.gov/e...ndez/index.shtm

You want painting #15, although the rest of his stuff is really cool (the cork "wine cooler" got a lot of attention with the RevWar folks)

Late for GAoP, the artist was born 1715. And I'm just starting to look for samples from earlier.

thanks jendobyns. these pictures are cool and it's extra nice that the paintings are Spanish!!

So... now I want to have a CHOCOLATE POT also...

Ah, yes, please let me know when you find a source for those*G*

And when I get my chocolate cakes to look like the ones in the paintings, I will be a happy woman indeed. Just need more practice with the right tools.

[Iron Jon]

Thanks for the pictures and info Jenn.

I think much of what Iron Jon has is actually Wilton's Queen Anne pattern.

Country French is a different, although somewhat similar pattern.

The two are often confused, especially on eBay.

QM James is correct that most are Queen Anne (the sets that used to be his) but there are several other designs in the set too. A lot of the actual pewter I have is plain edged and should be period. There are several other edge designs on the Wilton, I could get more pictures if anyone wants to discuss further.

[callenish gunner]

Aye Iron john, the scalloped edged pewter was very upperclass within period...there were many variations both in period and as repros since. Many companies have been doing the variations since the mid '70 for the Bicentennial and for the resugence of colonial homes and the look of the historic. I also have quite a bit of the Wilton Queen Anne and also the Country French. I also have quite a bit of period pewter as well but with the lead content we us it only for display. With moct foods you don'y have a lot to fear from the old pewter unless it has acidic contentthat will leach the lead out but why risk it. The modern repro tableware is safer and more versitile as it can go from freezer to oven to table. We have service for 18 in most pieces.

[Capt. Sterling]

ah, fwiw, haven't read it myself... sorry will let others set the table...but perhaps this might be of help...

http://www.archive.org/stream/pewterplatehisto00massuoft/pewterplatehisto00massuoft_djvu.txt

"Domestic pewter of 17th century England - A Historical Re-enactors guide to the Industry and it’s products" (ISBN 1 85804 199 6 ..... Published;Stuart Press)

and a few samples from the Queen Anne's Revenge excavation

and Whydah

[Capt. Sterling]

http://www.pewtertankardsflagons.com/index.php?p=1_7_British

[jendobyns]

http://www.pewtertan...p?p=1_7_British

Thanks for that, and the previous one as well. My holiday reading list is becoming quite full *G*

The pics from the QAR look just like the things I was finding in the earlier artwork. I love it when art and archaeology converge

[Jack Roberts]

Got some pics from V and A museum that I took. Enjoy!

TANKARD

with Britannia standard hallmark

Hallmarked for 1704- 1705

The Britannia standard hallmark indicated a higher proportion of pure silver metal than the quality of silver

generally then in ise. Britannia standard was introduced in 1697 to prevent silversmiths melting down coins to make new objects. That

practice was severely reducing the number of coins in circulation.

Silver, engraved

Made in London by Philip Rollos (born about 1660, died after 1715) Engraved with the royal coat of arms for Queen Anne, who presented

it to Goerge Proctor (died 1751) as a christening gift.

[Jack Roberts]

And one more. Slightly after period but close...

Dish

Cast Pewter

London, England; 1725-60

Maker's tough of John Watts (active from 1725)

Stamped with a crowned rose, a crowned "X" and "WITHOUT ALDGATE":engraved squirrel crest.

PS Ignore the text in the photo. That's my personal numbering for cataloging the placards and pics.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Jack Roberts

[Jack Roberts]

Oooh I forgot about this one.

The left is a wine serving cup and the right is a kind of decanter.

[Bos'n Cross]

i really need to visit that museum!

[Jack Roberts]

We should plan a crewe trip.... now wouldn't that be a blast!!!

[PoD]

I dont suppose anyone knows anywhere that does a replica of a fork like this one do they?

[MadL]

What about leather? I know leather predates the GAoP and leather hardening techniques have been around since midevil day.

The Royal Armories museum offers this one:

Royal Armories Meseum Shop

it states:

These handmade leather tankards are modelled on the shape of tankards recovered from the Mary Rose, Henry VIII's flagship.

however I have not seen nor read anywhere of their findings after 1500/1600 ?

*************************

To reply to m'self, I just came across this "The History of Leather Drinking Vessels" on a UK page; they claim:

Later fashion, particularly in Tudor times, added a wider base, presumably to promote better stability as found with those discovered with the wreck of the Mary Rose.

However, use of the jack continued until Nelsons time when they were known as Boots, hence the naval phrase "Fill up your Boots" meaning "have a drink".

and they go on to say they were still used in the 20th century and popular among the mining and steel industries; but I digress as we are all 'dead' by this time...

The History of Leather Drinking Vessels

Edited December 26, 2010 by MadL

[Korisios]

Cool info guys and girls thanks!

And uh keep it comming...

[Korisios]

OK, here's one for a start: http://www.nga.gov/e...ndez/index.shtm

You want painting #15, although the rest of his stuff is really cool (the cork "wine cooler" got a lot of attention with the RevWar folks)

Late for GAoP, the artist was born 1715. And I'm just starting to look for samples from earlier.

thanks jendobyns. these pictures are cool and it's extra nice that the paintings are Spanish!!

So... now I want to have a CHOCOLATE POT also...

Ah, yes, please let me know when you find a source for those*G*

And when I get my chocolate cakes to look like the ones in the paintings, I will be a happy woman indeed. Just need more practice with the right tools.

The source? That's easy it's already on this thread... My link ... scroll 2/3 down fore the 1703 version like on the paintings...

Edited December 26, 2010 by Korisios