Period Correct Cups, Plates, Tankards and Eating Stuff

[Cpt. Alva]

in researching Early American, and British Pewter, one thing has stood out to me.....

the shape......most American Tankards, and Mugs were STRAIGHT SIDED, with very little decoration......so far, my design is right out.......fair enough.....

Most British ones, were pear-shaped........probably to go along with matching teapots........

[kass]

Cool! Got any pictures to share, Captain, so Chole can go shopping?

[CrazyCholeBlack]

Thank you very much for the guidelines Mr. Fairfax, they will serve me well whilst on the hunt. I can not be the only person who becomes a bit overwhelmed at the thrifts.

[kass]

Oh, you're sure not, Chole! I sometimes take a notebook with printouts of period still life paintings so I can check 'em. None of my pewter ewers are perfect, but one was free and the other two were £20 each (which isn't bad since the period-perfect ones were £150!).

[Cpt. Alva]

try to look up "Williamsburg Pewter" to find some pictures of american examples

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

"I have the last solid-bottomed "Horn Mug" on earth, it would seem"

Not the last...I know my reenacting group has one or two in with it's loaner gear. Look exactly like that; I think we have one solid bottomed one, and maybe one hollow one.

I have one of these, too.... I have seen hollow-based ones at flea markets, but would never purchase one... could not imagine where I would use it. However, it has about 20 pounds of pewter in it, so it's only for Heavy drinking. I recall that this style dates from Colonial times, but a quick search on the web (as well as the U.S. National Park Service, which is from where I thought I received this information) was inconclusive.

[blackjohn]

In the book I have on the material culture of the Plymouth colony, there is at least one pic of a slope-sided, lidded tankard dated... I think it was 1680 or 90s.

[Cpt. Alva]

Pete, I had it dated around the Colonial era as well, but couldn't find any pictoral, or conclusive evidence.....just a lot of people calling it a "Colonial Horn Mug"

in any case, Colonial era is a little late for our era, so that's that.......at least until we can date one to 1720........

[Korisios]

So do I understand correctly, that sandcast tinnen mugs and plates are not period correct for lets say 1700 ??

[jendobyns]

So do I understand correctly, that sandcast tinnen mugs and plates are not period correct for lets say 1700 ??

Do you have pictures? Is this what you have in mind? http://www.armetale.com/armetale/index.php?fuseAction=group&sale=&t=pat&ID=3

[Brass]

Ms Dobyns – As the good Captain Sterling mentioned earlier in this thread you might take a look at Goose Bay Workshops, LLC. Peter Goebel, propertier, makes a nice repro copper mug based on an original from c1645 dug in tidewater Virginia. I have one and am quite pleased with it. There are a number of other goods he offers that might interest you as well.

http://www.goosebay-...m/CUPS-CANTEENS

For what it's worth, to get a general timeline on English 'tin' items chronology if you're not keen on copper, here is an overview from the Worshipful Company of Tin Plate Workers that might be helpful:

History of Tinsmithing: Overview by the Worshipful Company of Tin Plate Workers

The craft of the tin plate worker is an ancient one and there are well documented accounts of tinned copper and bronze articles dating from pre-Roman times. Tinned iron sheets, the earliest tinplates, were produced in Bavaria in the fourteenth century and imported into England from at least 1483 for use in domestic articles. There was limited production in Britain from about 1670, but the industry did not become established until around 1730.

The early tinplate was used for drinking vessels and for numerous household articles such as plates, bowls and lanterns. In the mid-seventeenth century, the trade of tinplate working flourished in London, in the vicinity of London Bridge, with the craftsmen belonging to various metal working guilds, principally the Ironmongers' Company which was founded in 1463.

Wireworking as a craft was in existence in the reign of Henry VI, when the craftsmen in London were members of the Girdlers Company. Early wire objects in general use would have included needles, fish hooks, cages, chains and traps.

The two groups of craftsmen decided to amalgamate together to form a trade guild for the management and regulation of their trades, and in due time the company was granted a Royal Charter on 29th December 1670 in the reign of Charles II under the title of: "The Trade Arte and Mistery of Tynne Plate Workers also Wyer Workers of the City of London"

Our first Master, was Thomas Aris (or Ayres), who was also Master of the Ironmongers' Company in 1680 and a Tin Plate Worker by trade. The By-laws were approved by the courts of the Chancery and King's Bench in 1678 and the Company received its Livery in 1766.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Brass

[jendobyns]

Dear Mr. Brass,

Twas not me who asked the question regarding the appropriateness of sand cast tin. It was another, I was just asking the question with that link for clarification, as an illustration of the closest thing I could think of to it in appearance. I couldn't think of anyone making sand cast tin repro items that I'd ever run across, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

But thank you for the information. Mr.Goebel is a treasure and I purchase items from him when I can (I miss his regular appearances in April at Ft. Frederick). Tin is something I rarely buy these days, mostly because the quality has become rather poor. I am well equipped with copper, pottery, glass, and other forms of period appropriate eating and cooking equipment. The only down side to packing the ceramics is their weight. Where are the servants when you need them? Ah, well, it keeps me from packing a tavern's worth of stuff

Ms Dobyns – As the good Captain Sterling mentioned earlier in this thread you might take a look at Goose Bay Workshops, LLC. Peter Goebel, propertier, makes a nice repro copper mug based on an original from c1645 dug in tidewater Virginia. I have one and am quite pleased with it. There are a number of other goods he offers that might interest you as well.

http://www.goosebay-...m/CUPS-CANTEENS

For what it's worth, to get a general timeline on English 'tin' items chronology if you're not keen on copper, here is an overview from the Worshipful Company of Tin Plate Workers that might be helpful:

History of Tinsmithing: Overview by the Worshipful Company of Tin Plate Workers

The craft of the tin plate worker is an ancient one and there are well documented accounts of tinned copper and bronze articles dating from pre-Roman times. Tinned iron sheets, the earliest tinplates, were produced in Bavaria in the fourteenth century and imported into England from at least 1483 for use in domestic articles. There was limited production in Britain from about 1670, but the industry did not become established until around 1730.

The early tinplate was used for drinking vessels and for numerous household articles such as plates, bowls and lanterns. In the mid-seventeenth century, the trade of tinplate working flourished in London, in the vicinity of London Bridge, with the craftsmen belonging to various metal working guilds, principally the Ironmongers' Company which was founded in 1463.

Wireworking as a craft was in existence in the reign of Henry VI, when the craftsmen in London were members of the Girdlers Company. Early wire objects in general use would have included needles, fish hooks, cages, chains and traps.

The two groups of craftsmen decided to amalgamate together to form a trade guild for the management and regulation of their trades, and in due time the company was granted a Royal Charter on 29th December 1670 in the reign of Charles II under the title of: "The Trade Arte and Mistery of Tynne Plate Workers also Wyer Workers of the City of London"

Our first Master, was Thomas Aris (or Ayres), who was also Master of the Ironmongers' Company in 1680 and a Tin Plate Worker by trade. The By-laws were approved by the courts of the Chancery and King's Bench in 1678 and the Company received its Livery in 1766.

[Korisios]

It whas me wo asked the question. I lately run into a guy who sandcasts tin, indeed like the guy in the link Jendobyns posted here.

And there's rather a lot of this stuff here around in Holland. So I wondered.

Sometimes it's nice just to buy something from a guy you can look in the face and talk to in real life, instead of placing another order by the internet... (-;

And there's a lot of secondhand stores here in my city that might have this tinnen stuff that you can buy cheap every now and then...

Thats wy I asked....

Edited December 20, 2010 by Korisios

[Korisios]

Oh and you can find them here on "Marktplaats" (the dutch e-bay) cheap also...

[Brass]

Ms Dobyns & Korisios- indeed! Sorry about the confusion, my error as usual in reading through posts too fast.

Brass

[Dread Pyrate Greyhound]

There were also tankards with glass bottoms so the wary drinker could keep an eye on the tavern suroundings, even when drinking, in case a foe or anything unsavery approached. My mom has a bunch of those in her basement from when we were on a local Medieval Faire's cast

[Korisios]

I ran into one such a tankard! What period is that??

[jendobyns]

There were also tankards with glass bottoms so the wary drinker could keep an eye on the tavern suroundings, even when drinking, in case a foe or anything unsavery approached. My mom has a bunch of those in her basement from when we were on a local Medieval Faire's cast

Interesting. I had always heard that the reason there were glass bottoms was so the drinker could check and make sure there were no coins in the bottom. If the King's recruiting sergeant was buying drinks, a ploy to get recruits to "take the king's shilling", thus essentially signing on to military service, was to put the coin in the tankard. When they got to the bottom they'd pick it up out of the tankard ( lookit this! there's money in me grog!), thus "taking the King's shilling". I'd also heard they were a 19C invention. Worth doing some research again, I guess, to make sure what I remember isn't another reenactorism or museum myth perpetuated from docent to docent.

[jendobyns]

I ran into one such a tankard! What period is that??

That depends. They were still making them well into the 1960's or 70's, complete with a Playboy bunny logo on them

[Korisios]

The one I have seen says 1940...

[wes1761]

I have a box full of mis-matched pewter, there are plates, goblets and I think a mug or two....I'll try to get pics up, as they are Williamsburg......

Mr. Hand, I can make you a nice copper mug.....used to make a bunch of stuff..

[jendobyns]

Can you do re-tinning on things like the copper pot? Mine has a worn spot and looks like it might be down to the copper.

I have a box full of mis-matched pewter, there are plates, goblets and I think a mug or two....I'll try to get pics up, as they are Williamsburg......

Mr. Hand, I can make you a nice copper mug.....used to make a bunch of stuff..

[wes1761]

Shouldnt be a problem with re-tinning......

[Iron Jon]

I also have a collection of assorted pewter and Wilton Armetale pieces that I use, some of it is in the picture below. I'm not sure of the time period the Wilton stuff is supposed to represent. Maybe someone here can comment on the period correctness of some of these items so others can get an idea. Most of the stuff here is from thrift stores and yard sales (including my not-so-rare solid bottom horn mug!) so getting a set together for re-enactment use isn't difficult.

[jendobyns]

Shouldnt be a problem with re-tinning......

Great! I'm going to check with the guy who made them first, give him a chance to stand by his product (they've barely been used and shouldn't be having this problem), but if that doesn't fly, I'll be talking to you about fixing it (or them, need to check the rest of the set). And I might know other folks whose copper needs re-tinning, so PM me if you're interested in my sharing your info with them, and info about how much it would cost (rough estimates, of course), please?

Thanks!