Mick MacAnselan Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I be tryin' to decide a'tween a Cavalier Hat (y'know the kind havin' one turned up side) and a Tricorn. Lookin' for the earliest period look... so which o' those woulda been first? Thankee! ---Mick MacAnselan The Dread Pyrate MacAnselan aka Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 The cavalier hat dates around 1630-1650. Tricorns appear 30 years or so later. BTW, if you go with a cavalier hat, it's the left side that turns up. It's so the musket doesn't knock your hat off when you shoulder it. Right side stays down to shield your face from the flash of the pan. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stynky Tudor Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Master Hawkyns, Is that right? I thought I read somewhere that the right side of the hat were to be bent up so as not to catch flame when firing one's musket.?. Though to shield ones eyes and face as or more plausible if not preferable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Most musket drills are based on some form of Jacob de Gehyn's drill manual published in 1607. Musket is carried shouldered on the left shoulder. I can tell you from experience that the barrel will knock your hat off if you have a wide brim. Firing a matchlock is very different from firing a flinter. The match comes down into the pan, and sets the powder off. It may be a short delay or a long one depending on the powder, heat of the match, and humidity. While you're waiting, you have to keep your musket on target, requires keeping your eyes open. So, you wear a large brimmed hat, drop the right side down on top of the barrel between you and the pan, and sight through the small gap between barrel and brim. It was said you could always tell a musketeer by the scorch marks on his hat. There were some commanders that tried to stop the practice and keep the hats looking better, and that is perhaps what you've seen. As the 17th century progressed, the rise of the firelock and the narrowing of the hat brim changed the style. By the 1680's, you see the military hats are turned up at the front, and have a narrow brim. About the time the matchlock is finally removed from service, 1712 in England, the tricorn becomes the hat of choice for the military. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Broadside" Long Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I was goin' for ye mid-17th century Buccaneer/Sir Henry Morgan look, etc. so I went with the cavalier/musketeer hat. Although I like the tricorn look, they were from a later period as Hawkyns was kindly pointed out. BTW Hawkyns, thanks for yer info on the history of the Musketeer hat. I didn't know that. Arrrrr! Broadside Every normal person must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats! - Lucanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stynky Tudor Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Master Hawkyns, Thank you sir for that wondrous bit of history and information, I will rectify the egregious errors in me own caviler hat making at once. Unfortunately, I think me disinformation either comes to by way of the internet, ( I know not the best place for complete & accurate information) or the several general period reference books I have. Though I don’t have an example off hand point at, I have notice that a lot of the information seems to have been taken from similar source(s) or from each other and inaccurately, probably volume after volume over time and in contradiction to each other. In any case sir, I fear that I have been a pawn in the dispensing of false information. (referring to some of my previous posts) I graciously bow (in a Wayne & Garth I’m not worthy sort of way) to your superior intellect, knowledge and obvious firepower. Respectfully in your service, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I think I said this before on another thread about hats... But on the practical aspect of a cavalier hat. If you're not going to do any musket shooting,but you are going to be wearing this hat for many long hours out in the sun... You might want to go with a cavalier that isn't pinned up at all. The Duchess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Stynky- not so much error as style. As I said, there were commanders who tried the other way, and in a period where every regimental commander got to write his own drill book and uniform regs, there were most certainly units who wore the right side up. It'ud be the difference between a practical fighting unit and a unit more interested in putting on a good show with no substance. Figurin' that good pirates are like to be practical fighters, seems the way to go would be left side up. Personal like, I don't wear either. They blow off too easy in combat and get in the way more often than not. I'm more likely to wear a blue bonnet in combat that I can pull down to shield me eye. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeadh`ani Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 The cavalier hat dates around 1630-1650. Tricorns appear 30 years or so later. BTW, if you go with a cavalier hat, it's the left side that turns up. It's so the musket doesn't knock your hat off when you shoulder it. Right side stays down to shield your face from the flash of the pan.Hawkyns So would it be the opposite way for a left hander?? Just curious, is all. Most people want to be the sun to shine upon the brightest days. I would rather be the moon to brighten up the darkest hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Lasseter Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 The cavalier hat dates around 1630-1650. Tricorns appear 30 years or so later. BTW, if you go with a cavalier hat, it's the left side that turns up. It's so the musket doesn't knock your hat off when you shoulder it. Right side stays down to shield your face from the flash of the pan.Hawkyns So would it be the opposite way for a left hander?? Just curious, is all. Aye Lass, Unless ye had yer own piece made, Lefties, just had ta learn ta fire right-handed... Bein' right-handed is the majority, not much was done ta help the south-paws... At least now a days, more stuff is available fer the south-paw... not so back then... Truly, D. Lasseter Captain, The Lucy Propria Virtute Audax --- In Hoc Signo Vinces Ni Feidir An Dubh A Chur Ina Bhan Air "If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me." Deuteronomy 32:41 Envy and its evil twin - It crept in bed with slander - Idiots they gave advice - But Sloth it gave no answer - Anger kills the human soul - With butter tales of Lust - While Pavlov's Dogs keep chewin' - On the legs they never trust... The Seven Deadly Sins http://www.colonialnavy.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stynky Tudor Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Arr Master Hawkyn, but from the practical and fighting stand point of experience, by all means protect one’s face from that powder burn and flash is what be important. Yer explanation of left side up and the right side down to shield be making more sense when firing a matchlock, in me mind anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Wolfy Wench Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Wif what everyone said, if ye wanted an earlier look, Cavalier hats are better, but Tricorns appeared only a bit afterward, so's it not like it'll interfere wif any specific datin'. I think both look great, but me, I prefer the Tricorn look. Captain Wolfy Wench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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