Captain Midnight Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yes, I know they were on their way out by the 1680's, but that's not to say they couldn't have "hung" around for a few extra years, carried by some pirate who was mighty proud to have them. My question is, does anyone know of any period depictions of pirates or seamen wearing a bandolier of charges (or "Apostles", as they have become known in more modern terms)? This is the set up I have chosen to carry and store my pistol charges, and since my "persona" is around 1690-1700, it is perfectly feasible to have carried these. I imagine they were just like any other military surplus---once they became obsolete for the military which they were designed for, they were sold out to the general masses to be used as they will by private citizens. Anyway, if anyone has any depictions of them being used, could you share them here? Thanks so much! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I know some were found on La Belle, wrecked 1686. While not a pirate vessel, she certainly would qualify as a target vessel. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 An indenture list from 1712 shows bandoliers and cartouch boxes issued to the Royal Navy (Gilkerson, "Boarders Away, Vol II", page 182). The list also includes snaphaunce muskets. Most armies did away with bandoliers when snaphaunce and flintlock muskets came into use. Check out "The Salacious Historian's Lair" for some great period pic's. Am trying to find a pic I can zoom in on of "The Battle of Vigo Bay" done in 1702 by Ludolf Bakhuysen. I believe some of the individuals coming ashore are wearing bandoliers. Massachusetts militia law of 1701 required (among other things) "a Coller with Twelve Bandeleers or Cortouch box". Yours, Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn_Enigma Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Jacob de Gheyn "The Exercise of Armes" Not quite your period (1607), but the use of the charges remains much the same for the entire century. "The floggings will continue until morale improves!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Blackjohn, Mad Mike, Cap'n Enigma, all of this is great information! Thanks so much to all of you! I'm glad to know that they at least found some use even into the early 1700's. I'm trying to make a set of my own, I don't have a lathe, so I'm turning them by hand from poplar using a belt sander, a wood rasp, and a file. A little bit slower than a lathe, but it works. Takes about an hour and a half to make each apostle. So far, I've made one apostle and a matching priming flask. I thought a set of these would go nicely with my .64 cal. doglock pistol from Loyalist Arms. I'm painting them a grayish-blue, as described in documents from the English Civil War, which means my set will be representative of military surplus from that era, since the English Civil War was just prior to the GAoP. I'd be very interested to see that painting of the men coming ashore armed with bandoliers. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Captain Midnight, Unfortunately I can't find the website where one can zoom in for details (I'll keep searching). Here is an example, but it is too dark to make out details- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vigo_Bay Yours, Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Aye Mike, thanks for your efforts anyway. I have also tried finding a larger image of the painting, but I've had no luck so far, either. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 There has for years been debate ranging over the term "apostles" used to describe the bottles on a bandoleer. The consensus of opinion has generally been that the term was coined by Victorians. Dave Ryan of Partizan press offered a bottle of Scotch to anyone who could find evidence to place the use of the term into the English civil war era, but for about 15 years nobody could. I've come the closest to winning the Scotch by sending a snippet from Henry Teonge's diary in which bandoleers are described as Apostles. Teonge was a naval chaplain in the 1670s (incidentally that's the only pre-Victorian reference Dave Ryan has ever been offered), so it's also another piece of evidence of their use on ships in the later 17thC. Once I get back online at home I'll post the full quotation. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Thanks for that, Foxe, I indeed look forward to hearing further detail on this subject from you when you return home. Well, my set is coming along nicely, I have now reached the half-way mark: I have completed the priming bottle and six apostles; only six more apostles to go (and possibly another priming bottle with a spring-loaded spout). I'm very proud of them so far, from two feet away, they all look identical, but when you hold them in your hands, you can discern the small differences that indicate they are individually hand carved. They're a lot of work, but they will be something I can be proud of when I'm finished. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted July 29, 2006 Author Share Posted July 29, 2006 I've finally finished the entire set of twelve apostles. They were a LOT of work! Now I need to make the leather bandolier and shot pouch to string them on, but that is infinitely easier than the bottles themselves. My digital camera is on the blink, but I might be able to take a regular photo on film and then scan a pic of them so that you all can see. I'll wait to do it after I make the leather bandolier, though, so it can be shown in its finished state. "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Midnight Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Here is the pic of the finished set, along with the rest of my arsenal, finally! "Now then, me bullies! Would you rather do the gallows dance, and hang in chains 'til the crows pluck your eyes from your rotten skulls? Or would you feel the roll of a stout ship beneath your feet again?" ---Captain William Kidd--- (1945) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longarm Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 BY the look of your picture, you do have alot to be proud of. I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. To me it smells like....PIRACY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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