'Slops' Not Period?

[Commodore Swab]

In addition to thinking about warm/cold it might be reasonable to consider bugs and misquitoes. I know you may often find me wearing long pants just to try to keep the misquitoes at bay when at the same time if I were aboard ship there is no way you would catch me in long pants.

[Liam McMac]

I thought the buccaneers were down in the Caribbean where it is hot? And if we are looking at warmth, why then did the long trousers that sailors wore not catch on instead of knee breeches where the climate is colder? Knee breeches is really just a style from the time period... warmth seems only to dictate type of fabric chosen to make the garment... such as wool in the colder climates and linens in the warmer ones but still, in many cases, breeches...

I agree with you on the subject of fabric choice, but I would still have to argue that breeches are tighter fitting (whether the were made of a light material or not) and for most on-ship duties tight fitting pants would be constrictive. Now I beleive that long trousers were not adopted in colder climates because they were less fashionable than breeches and were intended to be work-wear... same goes for slops. Early celts wore simple trousers on a day to day basis and I'm sure the Europeans were trying to take a step forward rather than back. ... I'm sure they changed it up alot due to where they were and what they were doing at the time. I don't wear my steel toes to dinner or a nice shirt to shovel dirt.

yawn* I'm bored now

[Capt. Sterling]

Hmmm I still have to disagree with you here, as breeches for the GAoP are not truly tight fitting, nor constrictive...they still run on the rather loose side as the full seat that allows the legs to be snug, as in the later 18th century styles, does not really begin to appear until the later part of the 1720s-30s... certainly the plates and paintings that do manage to show a bit of breeches, does not show tight fitting garments yet. Funny how there are breeches listed in the Slops Contracts...several types.

And when properly made, later 18th century breeches, including leather breeches, with the snug legs and full seat are not constrictive either...

Edited May 28, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[callenish gunner]

Any of you who were at PIP last December might remember how cold it got at night and the scramble for anything wool ...with the breezes on the ocean and the dampness and the planetary climate conditions during the period (it was what was called the "Little Ice Age" Yes on land the temperatures were much higher in the Caribbean than at sea, but the sea conditions combined to make the weather at sea a bit different than those on the islands of then or today.

The bottoms of breeches of the period were also closed with ties, buttons or buckles; they could have been left undone while on board for more freedom of movement for those climbing the rigging. Slops were also worn by other folks beside sailors, there are records that state they were sometimes worn by farmers or drovers. Since we don't have exact patterns or specs on the slops it is at best speculation as to how they were worn by every individual; since not every pair was issued by the slops contractors hired by the Royal Navy. At best it is conjecture from illustrations which were done either after the fact and/or by those not directly wearing the kit.

Since some period illustrations show variety in trousers/breeches/slops it should be conjectured/ascertained that there was variety in styles even as we have today. It is natural that not every man from Europe had the exact same fabric "this month" to dress exactly like every other seaman he met in his travels and that the seamstress/wife, sweetheart or mother or tailor sewed the same way or style as those even 20 miles away. So variations occurred even to colour.

Edited May 28, 2009 by callenish gunner

[Capt. Sterling]

At best it is conjecture from illustrations which were done either after the fact and/or by those not directly wearing the kit.

Really? I don't think I can agree with that completely...as the fashion plates from the period and such illustrations as those done by Caspar Luyken, were supposedly done in order to show what was being worn at that time... Luyken's book shows that most lower classes were actually wearing even baggier breeches than the upper classes, except in Russia... there, I have to admit, the drawings show much tighter breeches, if their "pants" are actually considered breeches at all... and his Dutch sailors take the cake for baggy breeches...

will post the dutch boys later

And again, a properly made pair of breeches are not constrictive at all whether baggy earlier or tight later...

Edited May 28, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[michaelsbagley]

And again, a properly made pair of breeches are not constrictive at all whether baggy earlier or tight later...

Having recently participated in my first uprigging of a ship, I can attest to this, I was wearing a tighter fitting later period pair of breeches on the day I helped with the uprigging of the Santa Maria, and I felt the breeches were probably more comnfortable to wear than a pair of my jeans would have been (tight or loose I have both types of jeans).

In fact the only contrictive part of wearing breeches was the waist band and that has more to do with my expanding waistline than the style or construction of the breeches. Now back to eating my yoghurt and berries for breakfast... Must lose those extra couple of winter inches.

[CaptainSatan]

Any of you who were at PIP last December might remember how cold it got at night .

If it's cold I'll wear slops over a pair of breeches. Sometimes I'll cheat and wear my black

US Army issue long john pants that I trimmed & hemmed to wear under breeches

[Tartan Jack]

Any of you who were at PIP last December might remember how cold it got at night .

If it's cold I'll wear slops over a pair of breeches. Sometimes I'll cheat and wear my black

US Army issue long john pants that I trimmed & hemmed to wear under breeches

Wearing multiple sets of clothing when cold is a perfectly period thing to do. Most of the existent examples of period common-man clothing comes from bog finds, many in Scotland. It isn't uncommon for 2, 3, or even 4 jackets, 2-3 shirt, and several pairs of beeches to be worn at the same time. People didn't need to carry a suitcase, they look like they just wore everything in layers and cycled the layers (at least that's how it looks).

I could easily see "slops" over breeches, as well as slops just over drawers, being worn in period. The issue is what was worn commonly/most of the time.

Also, how loose is loose . . .

To put it in other words:

Where is the line between "open kneed breeches," slops, and loose fitting breeches?

Did "slops" mean what we mean by it in textual references?

Would the "shorts"/"slops" (as we know them) have been called something else than "slops" . . . ?

I really need to go back and reread all 6 pages of the thread. I wonder who will be open to changing their stances from several years ago . . .

Edited May 28, 2009 by Tartan Jack

[Liam McMac]

You know what... there seems to be enough evidence of sailors wearing 'slops' in the GAoP. Whether they were called slops or tousers or petticoat whatevers or open kneed breches... who cares. It seems they wore all kinds of stuff so... wear whatever makes you feel comfortable. Just dont make it out of pink polyester.

Were not those kind of pirates

[Commodore Swab]

Just dont make it out of pink polyester.

How about gloss black satin?

[Capn Bob]

As Bilbo the Black discovered, as chronicled in the classic books, "The Pyrates" (and I gotta re-read that sometime...again), black satin may look flashy but it feels "yeeg" when wet...

Just dont make it out of pink polyester.

How about gloss black satin?

[Hawkyns]

Remember also that slops were made to go over breeches. They were a kind of overall, to protect the breeches underneath. Here is the info from the Kannik's Korner slops pattern. Lightly later than GAOP, but still usefull.

http://www.kannikskorner.com/patmen.htm

Man's Outer Breeches

"Slops"

1750-1820

A protective garment used by sailors (even pirates), fishermen, farmers and field workers, generally worn over breeches or trousers. Based on original garments and contemporary illustrations. Side pocket slits to reach breeches pockets. Center front opening without fly buttons. Laced vent in back of waistband. View A has optional watch pocket or watch pocket access flap (to reach breeches watch pocket). View B has pleated front and wider waistband.

Hawkyns

[LadyBrower]

I thought there was some debate on that. This seems like an issue that has no real resolution, only speculation... :-/

It does make sense that they would have been a garment used like a cover-all... Messy work and only so many pairs of trousers. To be sure, I have ruined many pairs of pants working outside, cooking and cleaning. Hubby has ruined many pants painting, working on the car, etc... We have other things to change into after. I would imagine a garment like that was damn near necessary at this time to prolong the life of their clothes...

[Commodore Swab]

If its made of good heavy material clothes will last a long time on board a modern ship, they don't get as dirty as one might think and if you are sailing and you tow your clothes behind ship (as I have done crossing the atlantic) they can come out cleaner than the wash if you dont mind the salt.

[Pyrate Captain Mick]

Knowing that slops were beginning to lose favor at about the time trousers replaced breeches in working attire, and if I was to assume that slops were not worn during the golden age of piracy (but probably before), than I would have to conclude the premise that slops, a working man's garment not restricted to mariners, were not worn during the golden age of piracy is a false premise.

They were a protective garment, intended to be worn over more expensive breeches. From experience, I can tell anyone that although "breezy", they are comfortable to wear alone in warmer climes.

Also, bear in mind that mariners often constructed their own clothes out of available fabrics, like sailcloth. Sailors are noted for sewing talent, but this was not a universal skill and slops are moderately easy to cut and sew.

Comfort and simplicity is a prerequisite for a working mariner in the age of sail.

Just my tuppence.

[Mary Diamond]

Thank you for reviving this thread, and your well considered response.

[Stynky Tudor]

On 5/28/2009 at 11:16 PM, Liam McMac said:

... wear whatever makes you feel comfortable. Just dont make it out of pink polyester.

Were not those kind of pirates

OMG, someone else making fun of @Mission's pink Flamingo britches.

[Mary Diamond]

😆