Fusil Boucanier

[Monterey Jack]

That helps, Ben, thanks!

We just seem to keep runnin in the same circles!

Gareth

AKA.............

[blittle]

Regarding the wreck of La Belle, I made inquiries some years back, but didn't get very far with them. I'm currently looking into La Salle's expedition for another project, and will gladly forward any details on the muskets aboard La Belle, if I find anything out worthwhile. A few muskets were recovered from one of the Phips expedition vessels, but of somewhat indeterminate form:

http://www.mcc.gouv.qc.ca/phips/wreck01.htm

Spanish muskets have been recovered from the wreck of the Consolacion.

[blackjohn]

Thanks. I met a fellow just recently on an archaeologist board who worked on La Belle. If I find out anything interesting I'll pass it along. Last night I was flipping through From A Watery Grave and noted that the boxes the muskets were stored in were... 82 inches in length! Whoa!

[MadMike]

Just received my copy of "Boarders Away, Volume II". What a great book!

On page 172 there is a pic of a fusil boucanier dated to the early 1700's (owner is a private collector). However, there is a fusil boucanier in the Royal Armories, Tower of London circa 1773 produced at St. Etienne (as of the date of printing in 1993).

Yours, Mike

[hitman]

It is dated on the site as OoP but you may wanna look at rustic arms French trade gun (scroll down some) it's longest barrel is 42". It looks about right but then I haven't studied the finer points of the Tulle design changes. Speaking of anybody got a good refrences for what changed when with these guns?

[MadMike]

Hitman,

Reference above posts-

"According to Russel Bouchard in "The Fusil de Tulle in New France", the regiment in Canada was supplied with flintlock fusils in 1660. The matchlock "mousquet" which would remain in service until at least the early 1700's among some militia.

An early contract dated 7 Nov 1696 gives the spec's for a boucanier musket with a barrel 4'4" long, caliber 18 balls to the pound, with round faced locks.

Apparently it wasn't until 1712 when the boucanier muskets were cut back to four feet and to take a socket bayonet.

Loyalist offers an early fusil, dated to the early 1690's which would be great for a pirate portrayal. Unfortunately, Loyalist stated in an e-mail that they have no plans yet to introduce a buccaneer musket.

The Rifle Shoppe offers parts for a fusil boucanier. Also, the New England Club Butt musket nears a striking resemblance to the fusil boucanier.

Yours, Mike"

by blittle-

"I ran across this post by accident, and thought the following might be useful to those interested in the fusil boucanier, AKA buccaneer gun:

The "buccaneer gun," called a "fusil boucanier" by the French at the time, existed from at least the mid-17th century, and quite possibly earlier, until the late 18th century, its heydey being the latter half of the 17th century through the first half of the 18th. Its origin is unconfirmed, although it may be Dutch. The gun was a long barreled, club-butted, heavy caliber flintlock hunting arm. Fusils are flintlocks, not matchlocks, and the French flintlock was a true flintlock, not a doglock, although there are buccaneer guns with doglocks still extent--the variety of barrel, lock, and furniture of buccaneer guns was apparently quite broad. ("Mousquet" in French of the period referred to a matchlock, "fusil" to a flintlock.) The version described by Exquemelin and referring to the 1660s to 1670s, and by Labat, referring to late 17th and early 18th centuries, had a barrel of four and a half feet (converted to French pouces, roughly 57 inches or so, although there were buccaneer guns with barrels longer and shorter than this), and a caliber of 16 balls to the pound. French calibers of the period are not equivalent to English calibers. To allow for windage, a French caliber of 16 balls to the pound ranges from a bore diameter of .732 inches (caliber) to .777 inches, due to the wide manufacturing tolerances of the time. The ball itself averaged .68 inches. French buccaneer guns ranged from 21 to 12 balls per pound, and perhaps even a bit larger and smaller. In the late 17th century, buccaneer guns manufactured for the French Navy were standardized at 18 balls to the pound (.689 to .732 inches). Unfortunately, although the buccaneer gun was manufactured in large numbers, it was a weapon put to much hard use, and few remain today.

As to the matchlock versus flintlock discussion, primary sources, as well as secondary sources written by experts in early firearms, agree that the flintlock was the preferred arm for warfare at sea and in the New World from the mid-17th century onward, and was quite common. This does not mean that sea rovers of the period never used matchlocks, but after circa 1650 the flintlock was the principal long arm in use among sea rovers, Native Americans, and colonists engaged in warfare in a woodland environment. Hunters always preferred the flintlock, and were some of its earliest users. Any period reference to a "buccaneer gun" is to the 17th century translation of "fusil boucanier"--a flint arm.

The Rifle Shoppe carries parts cast from an original 18th century fusil boucanier, as well as other furniture and locks suitable to buccaneer guns.

The best (and most accessible) photos and illustrations are in Bouchard's Fusil de Tulle, Gilkerson's Boarder's Away!, and Hamilton's Colonial Frontier Guns. Hamilton also discusses French calibers of the period in detail.

Hope this helps.

Benerson Little (The Sea Rover's Practice)"

[Quartermaster James]

.. but I don't see how anyone, anytime, anywhere could have used a matchlock for hunting. The critters you were after would smell the match, and your ignition time is iffy.

Do you have a source that matchlocks were not used by the buccaneers for hunting?

A. Konstam:

For most of the buccaneer period, the standard firearm was the matchlock musket. As the weapon measured up to 5 ft. (1.5 meters) long, it was cumbersome to carry and operate, and smaller and lighter caliver muskets were sometimes used, although many buccaneers considered them less effective in battle.

In the Caribbean, winds blow very steadyly. So the buccaneers would approach their prey from the leeward side, where the smell of the matches would be blown away from their prey.

It probably didn't hurt to be poaching domestic cattle rather than hunting wild game...

[MarkG]

.. but I don't see how anyone, anytime, anywhere could have used a matchlock for hunting. The critters you were after would smell the match, and your ignition time is iffy.

Do you have a source that matchlocks were not used by the buccaneers for hunting?

A. Konstam:

For most of the buccaneer period, the standard firearm was the matchlock musket. As the weapon measured up to 5 ft. (1.5 meters) long, it was cumbersome to carry and operate, and smaller and lighter caliver muskets were sometimes used, although many buccaneers considered them less effective in battle.

In the Caribbean, winds blow very steadyly. So the buccaneers would approach their prey from the leeward side, where the smell of the matches would be blown away from their prey.

It probably didn't hurt to be poaching domestic cattle rather than hunting wild game...

I've been firing matchlocks for 25 years so I can offer a few person observations on this.

First, there were lighter-weight matchlocks. The one described above would be a military musket. I have one that I use for live fire. It weights something like 17 pounds and is equivalent to a 12 gage. It shoots very true - all that weight helps - but it is literally a pain to carry. It bruises my shoulder.

Lighter ones called calivers were also used. These were in the 18-20 gage range. The military preferred full muskets because of its superior range and penetrating power but the colonists prefered calivers because of the lighter weight.

They dont' take much longer to load. The main difference is the need to try your match. This takes a couple of seconds more than cocking a flint piece. They are also quicker and smoother to fire. There is no click-bang. Just a bang.

I know people who hunt with matchlocks. As long as you are downwind, the smell of the match isn't a problem.

The matchlock has a couple of major problems for boucaiers. The first is that you have to light the match before you can fire. You can't carry it cocked indefinitely. This leads to the second problem - match cord. Slow match burns around a foot an hour, faster if it is windy. If you are going to spend eight hours hunting you will need eight feet of match. If you are going hunting daily then you will need up to 60 feet of match a week. You could go through a mile or two a year.

This wasn't a problem for the military. They only lit their matches for battles. Guards often carried flint pieces to conserve match and so that they wouldn't be seen in the dark. In the colonies, this was a lot of rope to burn up, especially since it all had to be imported.

Given that, the extra expense for a flint piece would pay for itself pretty fast.

Mark

[Commodore Swab]

Well it appears as though I am going to have to build one myself. I am looking for wood and pricing steel for the barrel now. I am trying to collect as many pictures as possible and working on sourcing a lock from the rifle shop. Most likely I will go with something they have in stock to reduce the weight as I would like to have it done by PiP this December along with my other arms. I am still undecided on what style of lock to use although I am leaning toward 1. Snaphaunce 2. Miquelet 3. Wheel lock 4. English/Jacobean

I figure they would of all been seen and available during the bucc period with the english being the most desireable at the time. However, as this is something that will be kept for wall hanging mostly the other lock styles being more unique become more desireable. What are your thoughts?

[michaelsbagley]

For style of lock, I would suggest going with a true flintlock if you are trying to make a "Fusil Boucanier" (patterned after the French gun of that name), the doglock and snaphaunce are really more of English or Dutch technologies, and wheel locks while used in France were very expensive, and unlikely to fall into the hands of a marauder (they were the type of weapon that was generally too expensive to travel with and tended to stay on family hunting grounds in Europe). A Matchlock could work if you are aiming for a very early portrayal though.

There is an English Buccaneer styled gun with a doglock in a collection somewhere... But it is an English copy styled after the French Fusil Boucanier... There are also likely snaphaunce and other variants out there as well. The problem with the Buccaneer gun, is it is easy to find images or photos of surviving extant guns for the later Buccaneer guns (1700+), but good documentation or clear images of pre-1700 ones are very hard to come by.

As for the Rifle Shoppe.... Everything I hear cites them as the best... But they can also be some of the slowest. I have heard a few rare cases where it has taken a couple of years to get particular parts or locks from them. They're average turnaround time from what I hear is about 12 to 16 months (I have never done business with them myself, so everything I am saying here is second hand). Apparently if you call them, and ask if the part is in stock, and it is, they can be as quick as a few weeks... But when they have to cast a part, that is when the months will drag on and on.... Hope this warning comes as a help... Bottom line, if you deal with the Rifle Shoppe, be prepared for a LONG labour of love... If you want it quickly, you may want to call them to ensure they have it on hand, or deal with someone else.

Hope this helps.

[Commodore Swab]

My bad, I should of mentioned that nationality of the piece was not something I was concerned about. As for era portraying I am looking for something that would of been available and used in the carribean roughly 1660's.

Update:

After talking with the rifle shop based on what is available and in stock as far as castings (as well as knowing their "normal" time frame) I came to a decision of a English Snaphaunce.

Edited August 18, 2009 by vintagesailor

[Cascabel]

.

Update:

After talking with the rifle shop based on what is available and in stock as far as castings (as well as knowing their "normal" time frame) I came to a decision of a English Snaphaunce.

Be aware, Shipmate...... When talking to The Rifle Shoppe, that they are "less than truthful" when they give you estimated delivery info. They are EXTREMELY frustrating to deal with. I speak from experience !!

I don't mind being patient and waiting for a long time, but I absolutely HATE being lied to. I have always gotten things from them eventually, but DO NOT base your expectations or promises to customers on what they tell you !!! I have no idea why they avoid telling you the truth about delivery times. They don't hesitate to charge your credit card promptly, and well before they actually deliver.

Properly warned, sez I.......

>>>>> Cascabel

[Commodore Swab]

Actually I was well aware of their "reputation" and dearly hope to be able to report that they are accurate on their delivery estimate. I first called them to find out what locks they might have either assembled or the parts in stock already cast. This did have a considerable bearing on which lock we chose, estimated delivery was between 4-6 weeks (surprising me that we could actually possibly get something from them within a month). However, upon paying apparently somebody hadn't looked carefully and the lock we needed was already there and assembled so the delivery time changed to a few days. I will believe it when I see it, personally I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple months at least. If it does arrive I will let you know as this will be the first time I have ever heard of them delivering something promptly.

[Cuisto Mako]

Does anybody have a picture of the fusil boucanier lock from Riffle shop? How different is it from an early French trade gun lock or a fusil de tulle lock?

And what about pistol? Exquemellin mention that most flibustier are also equip with one or two pistol. Any idea what they migth look like? "modern" flint lock as well?

[thunderbuster]

Ahoy list,

Are all y'all aware of this site dealing with early arms and armour? You might want to do some digging as they have pre-and post- period match/dog/flintlock threads.

http://www.vikingswo...word/index.html

Fair Winds,

thunderbuster

[Commodore Swab]

I received the lock today . . .

[Captain Jim]

From the Rifle Shoppe? That fast? How long exactly did you wait?

[michaelsbagley]

Does anybody have a picture of the fusil boucanier lock from Riffle shop? How different is it from an early French trade gun lock or a fusil de tulle lock?

And what about pistol? Exquemellin mention that most flibustier are also equip with one or two pistol. Any idea what they migth look like? "modern" flint lock as well?

Hey Cuisto, if you look on This Discussion from the Pirate Brethren Forum, and scroll down a bit, there is an image from the Rifle Shoppe Catalogue of the Fusil Boucanier lock and parts of the kit.

[Cuisto Mako]

Thanks Michael! That's great! :)

but I still find it difficult to identify those "early" French lock. They don't seems to have a distinct feature like the dog of the doglock.

[MorganTyre]

Regarding the wreck of La Belle, I made inquiries some years back, but didn't get very far with them. I'm currently looking into La Salle's expedition for another project, and will gladly forward any details on the muskets aboard La Belle, if I find anything out worthwhile. A few muskets were recovered from one of the Phips expedition vessels, but of somewhat indeterminate form:

http://www.mcc.gouv.qc.ca/phips/wreck01.htm

Spanish muskets have been recovered from the wreck of the Consolacion.

On a side note, I live here in Corpus Christi which is home to part of the LaSalle exhibit and am only about 50 miles from the Rockport Maritime Museum (was there yesterday actually) so if there is any info anyone needs from the exhibit I can certainlly try to get pictures and the like. Seems there is a musket on display from the La Belle in the Corpus Museum. I'll see if I can get pictures next time I am there.

[MorganTyre]

Regarding the wreck of La Belle, I made inquiries some years back, but didn't get very far with them. I'm currently looking into La Salle's expedition for another project, and will gladly forward any details on the muskets aboard La Belle, if I find anything out worthwhile. A few muskets were recovered from one of the Phips expedition vessels, but of somewhat indeterminate form:

http://www.mcc.gouv.qc.ca/phips/wreck01.htm

Spanish muskets have been recovered from the wreck of the Consolacion.

On a side note, I live here in Corpus Christi which is home to part of the LaSalle exhibit and am only about 50 miles from the Rockport Maritime Museum (was there yesterday actually) so if there is any info anyone needs from the exhibit I can certainlly try to get pictures and the like. Seems there is a musket on display from the La Belle in the Corpus Museum. I'll see if I can get pictures next time I am there.

[richpierce]

Mike Brooks is a fine maker of custom muzzleloaders and makes as fine a buccaneer musket as any available. He knows the architecture and period styling and finishes. Check this out My link

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Mr. Pierce is too humble to toot his own horn. As I understand sir, you are quite an accomplished gunsmith in your own right.

Glad you came aboard!

Treat him well folks, he is a great asset to have around in firearms discussions and knowlege.

Bo