The Davinci Code

[The Doctor]

OK, having speed-read the first 9 chapters of "The Da Vinci Code", I've come to the following conclusion; tedious, boring, below-average writing, and fundamentally off the mark. Anyone who wants to get all whipped up over this book needs a bloody hobby. Lots of sizzle, but no prime beefsteak to back it up. Plenty of smoke, but precious little fire. 2 out of 5 stars on the Mad Jack scale.

[Matty Bottles]

I saw a survey cited in an article that thirty percent of a sample population in the UK who has read the book said that it 'fundamentally changes their faith." (Now, who knows how accurate that sample population is?) But the guy who wrote the article had a good point. He said something like "Whoever let this book change their mind is has all the faith they deserve." I mean, if your faith can't stand up to something like that, what does it do when the heavy tragedy hits, you know?

Of course, in many cases like that, people grow stronger in faith.

Anyway, good discussion.

[Rumba Rue]

I'll just wait and rent it

[Christine]

Religious controversy is essential.  It tests one's faith.  Untested faith is useless dogma.

All the hoopla over "The Da Vinci Code" is hilarious to me, because it is... a work of fiction.

I could say the same for The Bible.

:)

ps - not meant to be an intention Troll... I question the essential "facts" that Christianity is based upon.

Yeah, I agree with that too. That old saying comes to mind, "don't believe everything you read." The bible is written by man and it's scriptures has been passed down over time. It's like playing the game operator, the story changes as it's told and the end result is different than what was started. I think a lot of things were embelished more so than what really happened. But then again, no one really knows for certain what went on. Maybe we're not supposed to know until our final day on this earth comes. We're here to live and enjoy life to the fullest. Then in death, we'll have all the answers.

[PyratePhil]

...I've come to the following conclusion;  tedious, boring, below-average writing, and fundamentally off the mark.  Anyone who wants to get all whipped up over this book needs a bloody hobby.  Lots of sizzle, but no prime beefsteak to back it up.  Plenty of smoke, but precious little fire.  2 out of 5 stars on the Mad Jack scale.

To risk echoing BlackJohn, one could say the same of many other works, the Bible included...

Look, one of the primary purposes of any organized religion is to control its followers, to ensure perpetuation of the breed and the safety and survival of the ruling parties of that religion. Any attempt at questioning those parties is dealt with in at least one of several classical ways - ridicule, scorn, torture, or banishment.

Control is the name of the game.

Lose control, and you lose your constituents. Lose them, and you're just another fringe-element belief system. But utilize their all-too-human desire to prove themselves right and be the "winners", and you have a powerful lobby.

Now faith...that's something else again. Along with spirituality, faith is, by definition, pure and untouched by human greed and need. But the mechanisms that have been honed over thousands of years by the major religious groups - that speaks of willful maniulation of the masses.

Something I've never quite been interested in...

[The Doctor]

Hear, hear, Phil! Nicely put. :)

[Red-Handed Jill]

Just what I was about to say! :)

It's human nature to need someone else to be in charge - that's why organized religion is so popular. Those of us who want to be masters of our own destiny eschew that sort of stuff.

[PyratePhil]

That's just how I feel about it...

[The Doctor]

"Fate" is handed to you, for good or ill. "Destiny" is what you decide to make of your fate.

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Dorian asks:

Not to start trouble, as I was raised RC, but why is it the Bible is the true word of god, yet all other holy books are 'works of myth and lore'?

That depends entirely upon the religion of the person you're speaking to. Whatever religion one happens to be from, it is their own holy book(s) that is(are) the true word of whomever/whatever they hold sacred.

[CaptainCiaran]

For all of the holy scriptures, holy books, holy teachings, holy nights, I simply live my life by the Wiccan Crede, which has great similarity to the Golden Rule:

Do what ye will and harm no thing

(Do unto others as ye would have them do unto ye)

[Red-Handed Jill]

I'm an Animist (courtesy of my grandpa; the rest of the family was Catholic. I used to get into some great arguments with the local priest...) The credo is similar to yours, Phil.

Along those lines, the science fiction author Spider Robinson came up with a great saying:

"There are no passengers on Starship Earth - we are all crew members."

[Zephaniah W Nash]

It seems like prety much every religion, philosophy, credo, whatever I've ever read anything about has some variation of the so-called "golden rule" (treat others have you would have them treat you), it just seems like they have different exceptions for when you don't have to follow that...

Or perhaps it's just that people - no matter what their beliefs - can usually find their own way around it, if they choose to do so.

[Christine]

Here's a thought for everyone: Do you think only here on Earth people care this much about different religions and God or whatever? The Universe is vast, do you think other beings out there are the same way? It just seems this is only an Earth-bound thing. I know, this is becoming about philosophy now-lol!

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Christine-

Well, I look at it one of two ways, depending upon my mood at the time. I'm with you on that the univers is big. Really big. I mean, you think it's a long way to go down the street to the duggists, but that's peanuts on space. Okay, enough with the bad Adams paraphrasing, you get my point...

I'm fairly convinced that there has to be life out there. The probability is with it.

On the one hand, of all the different living creatures on Earth, human beings are the only ones worrying about religion. The seems to indicate that it could be a vanishingly small phenomenon.

On the other hand, if one subscribes to any of the versions of the anthropic principle (all of which, for one reason or another, state that intelligent life elsewhere will resemble life here to a greater or lesser degree), it seems like other "intelligent" beings, if they resemble us at all - or we resemble them - will be somewhat similar psychologically as well, and will likely argue about religion in bars.

[PyratePhil]

I'm an Animist ...The credo is similar to yours, Phil.

Oh, believe me, m'lady, I used to become quite animated against all the admonitions concerning Animists...

...but yes, we're Brother and Sister under the thin veil of differences!

[PyratePhil]

Here's a thought for everyone:  Do you think only here on Earth people care this much about different religions and God or whatever?  The Universe is vast, do you think other beings out there are the same way?  It just seems this is only an Earth-bound thing.  I know, this is becoming about philosophy now-lol!

YAY! I finally get to let my Useless Degree out for some exercise

A long time ago, in a City of Sin far away, I attended a comedy show starring a gentleman named Chris Rush. One of his routines touched on this topic...

Basically, he brought up the same question as you, Christine - is there intelligent life out there, would they be visiting Earth in the foreseeable future, and did they think the same thoughts we did?

His viewpoint was that perhaps there WERE intelligent beings out there...in fact, they were probably SO intelligent that they saw Earthlings as...shall we say, a little less than mud, given all the wars, murders, robberies etc. that we commit on a minute-by-minute basis.

He said that they probably looked at us like, "Earth?!? Ewwww...wipe your feet off - you stepped in Earth!"

Now I've watched far too many Twilight Zone's, Star Trek's, and even Lost in Space's to question whether there's life out there...the odds virtually guarantee it. But I will say one thing - personally, I think that Earthlings (geez, I sound like Marvin the Martian!) are the only life-forms that are so full of themselves that they would NEED to ask these questions!

Who the heck are WE? We're nothing. A deviation in the timeline of Eternity...we're here for only a microsecond in the grand scheme of things, yet we manage to screw things up so rapidly and so completely that, if there IS a God/Allah/Great Pumpkin, they must be shaking their collective heads at the failure of their beloved Humans.

When you get to the point of considering the vastness of the cosmos, I think you need to acquire a different mindset than most people have. You need to open your mind to the POSSIBILITIES...that life is very, very different "out there". Perhaps there's a planet where all the beings look like salt and pepper shakers - no doubt they have violent wars to determine the ruling condiment. A few parsecs over, there's a world where there exists no corporeal bodies - just energy clouds bopping around.

Humans have, since time began, been underestimating their fellow sentient creatures on Earth. Animals have been domesticated and yoked to perform slave labor; plants have been relegated to the status of either "nice to look at" or used as food...all without consideration of their charges' basic ALIVENESS.

We're the Grand Poohbahs..."we're the only creatures with a soul, with a conscience, with an intelligent mind, with speech, with emotions..."...on and on it goes. This alone would make any other race of beings sick to their stomachs (if they have them, that is LOL).

Perhaps THEY are God. Ever consider that? The whole Chariots of the Gods thing...or maybe their culture is SO intelligent that they long ago solved the riddle, and know that only pure science is responsible for everything. Or random chance. Or Tao. Or perhaps the greatest, most sought-after secret of our true being, our reason for living right here, right now, lies in a little safe-deposit box on the far-away planet of HJUFTDL, and even now, they're charging admission to the local population to come in, take a peek at the whole "secret", and, ala P.T. Barnum, proceed to the egress.

Maybe we're just one big galactic joke...and through our own sheer human folly, we've created a Ptolemaic Model of things - that we're the center of it all, that there's a Supreme Being that cares for us and made us special and different from all others.

How wrong we probably are...

[Capt Grey]

Goode gods... am I reading intelligent conversation, not arguments, about religion?

It is amazing, isn't it? And very refreshing. That's what I like most about t'Pub. We be secure enough in our selves that we don't feel the need t'argue or flame.

We be good pirates!

To continue further off-topic, I picked up a book from the bookstore called "When God Was A Woman". It talks about the pre-Judeo/Cristian religions where female dieties were seen as the creators of life and women were their prophets. Family lines were traced through the mothers because they didn't know the role that men played in procreation (the time between conception and birth was too long to assume they were linked).

I've always held the belief that "new" religions replaced "old" ones. That's why we have major celebrations during ritual seasons: Christmas/Chanukka/Winter Solstice in the mid-winter and Easter/Passover/Spring Solstice in the spring.

[Biker]

Now has a recovering catholic, I have since develpoed a diffenrt view.

I can care less if you want to worship your microwave. Go on, worship it pray to it, make sacrifices to it. BUT the minute you tell me your microwave can beat up my toaster, we have a problem.

[PyratePhil]

No problem - my coffee-maker will kick ALL your appliances' butts...

[Biker]

Got this in a email and thought since it sort of goes here.

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

October 2002

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness -

Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they ar e purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.

Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16.

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,

Jim

[PyratePhil]

Oh, thank you Biker - that was fantastic - I needed that laugh!

[Zephaniah W Nash]

Capt. Grey-

It is amazing, isn't it? And very refreshing. That's what I like most about t'Pub. We be secure enough in our selves that we don't feel the need t'argue or flame.

Except maybe when it comes to boots... Kidding, kidding. I even enjoyed that debate.

And on my serious comment to your post - I mostly agree with you about "new" religions replacing older ones, but would just like to add that, not only do they seem to replace them, they seem to assimilate them. Many of the major points of more recent religious beliefs have taken in and somewhat re-written bits of older ones: the Flood, the Garden of Eden, the parting of a sea, all of these stories existed with different characters well before they were concieved as being part of the Christian mythos.

Additionally, the Roman Catholic Church was, in its' heyday, known for creating holy days on top of the already existing holy days of other cultures, to make them easier to convert to Christianity.

[Skull pyrate Carter]

Great movie. Yes Angels and Demons (the book) was better than the book of Da Vinci, however the greatest news I heard was A&D was going to be made into a movie. Yeah!!

[PyratePhil]

...I've always held the belief that "new" religions replaced "old" ones...

Ehhh...

Personally, I think the term "replaced" might be a wee bit lacking in this instance.

"Took over through force of arms" might work, aka the Crusades...

"Took over through terroristic acts" also sounds right, aka our 9/11...

"Capsized, knocked over, overturned, toppled, turned over, upset, brought down, subverted, toppled, tumbled, unhorsed, defeated, beat, drubbed, routed, thrashed, vanquished, massacred, trimmed, whipped, dusted, licked, overthrew, slaughtered, butchered, let blood, bathed in blood, annihilated, decimated, walloped, trounced, mowed down"...all good...

But "replace"? Mmmm....

Besides - the "old" ways still live...

Long live the faith, and long live the fighters!