blackjohn Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Maybe someone should start a new topic??? My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I was reading this morning (damned if I can remember the site, I'll dig through my browser's history later) that short-backed waistcoats were fashionable, but not necessarily common, prior to the French and Indian War.I can see how the design would be heavily favored by equestrians. It eliminates the need for a slit in the back for sitting a saddle. Besides, you end up sitting on the tails half the time anyway if you do any posting. :) But Jack, I'm looking at fashionable waistcoats, and I'm not finding ANY with shorter backs before the Revolutionary War (and none after either). If the backs were cut off by Roger's Rangers, that makes sense, but it doesn't sound like they were ever made that way. Are you sure you're not confusing waistcoats with short backs with waistcoats with plain (i.e. linen not silk) backs? Those I can document in this time period. And I'm afraid I'm just not understanding how a waistcoat with no back tails would make it more convenient to sit a horse. There's no need to "eliminate" the slit in the back for sitting a saddle. All waistcoats (and frock coats and great coats and any other jacket-type things) of the time period had this slit. Bar none. It's simply an extension of the center back seam. It's actually easier to make them with a center back slit than to sew it closed. As an equestrienne, I've noticed this parallel in modern riding gear. Many jackets made for warmth have zippers at the side seams so you can open them when seated on a horse and close them when working in the barn. I haven't seen riding jackets (then or now) that stop at the waist in back. This only serves to expose the back and that just doesn't make sense. You'll catch your death! Besides when you post, the tails of the waistcoat don't end up under you. They sit behind you. Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Guys, you would not believe this but the husband of the costumer on Last of the Mohicans emailed me this morning! It turns out they live in my area. I've asked her about the short tails on the waistcoats and I'll let you know what she says. She didn't do all the costumes for the movie, so she may not know. But I bet she could find out! Serendipity, ne? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Guys, you would not believe this but the husband of the costumer on Last of the Mohicans emailed me this morning! It turns out they live in my area.I've asked her about the short tails on the waistcoats and I'll let you know what she says. She didn't do all the costumes for the movie, so she may not know. But I bet she could find out! Serendipity, ne? Can I trust Hollywood? Please ask them to back up their answers with sources... :) My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 John, Remember who you're talking to here... I find with "historical costumers", they use good sources to start with, but then make changes based on "so-and-so said they did this" or "the female lead thought the sleeves looked ugly on her..." I want to know (A) if she made these particular costumes and ( if she did, why she cut off the tails. I know she didn't do all the costumes for the film, so she may have had nothing to do with them. But she might know the story behind it. But don't you find it insane that I got a random email from this guy this morning saying, "Hey, you live in Easton? I live in Easton. And my wife was the costumer for Last of the Mohicans!" It's spoooooooky... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjohn Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 But don't you find it insane that I got a random email from this guy this morning saying, "Hey, you live in Easton? I live in Easton. And my wife was the costumer for Last of the Mohicans!" It's spoooooooky... C'mon, now you are forgetting who you are talking to... that sort of thing happens all the time in my world. My Home on the Web The Pirate Brethren Gallery Dreams are the glue that holds reality together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Maybe I've taken up residence in your world then... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Well, Kass, I can only speak from the modern Arabian show ring when it comes to equestrian garb. My habit is to dress in more rustic clothing, which ranges from vests that are cut even with the waist to drop-front "riverboat gambler" vests. But again, these date post 1850. I'm still trying to dig up that web site I found. C'est la vie, no? Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Yeah, you can never find the reference when you're looking for it, Jack. I know the problem well... You let me know when you find the ref and I'll let you know if the Mohicans' costumer tells me anything of use. K? Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 And I'm afraid I'm just not understanding how a waistcoat with no back tails would make it more convenient to sit a horse. There's no need to "eliminate" the slit in the back for sitting a saddle. All waistcoats (and frock coats and great coats and any other jacket-type things) of the time period had this slit. Bar none. It's simply an extension of the center back seam. It's actually easier to make them with a center back slit than to sew it closed.As an equestrienne, I've noticed this parallel in modern riding gear. Many jackets made for warmth have zippers at the side seams so you can open them when seated on a horse and close them when working in the barn. I haven't seen riding jackets (then or now) that stop at the waist in back. This only serves to expose the back and that just doesn't make sense. You'll catch your death! Besides when you post, the tails of the waistcoat don't end up under you. They sit behind you. Yes, I have to agree with Kass here. I've been riding with period gear since the early 70s and the only article of clothing I've had "caught" under my tail end is a regimental cloak....no slit.... all other coats, waistcoats, overcoats, frock coats, reigmentals, etc. have never been such a pain in the arse as to have to shorten only the backs... Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 The one thing Janelle reminded me of regarding the waistcoast she just finished for me (mid-thigh in front, waist-length in back), is that men like to look good in two fundamental positions... Astride a horse, and sitting on their ass while blustering about politics. Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Good woman, that Janelle... Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Good woman, that Janelle... She got quite the belly laugh out of that one, to be sure! Yo ho ho! Or does nobody actually say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 The one thing Janelle reminded me of regarding the waistcoast she just finished for me (mid-thigh in front, waist-length in back), is that men like to look good in two fundamental positions... Astride a horse, and sitting on their ass while blustering about politics. In period correct breeches your arse looks rather "plump" to put it mildly... not something I would want to show off and mine is far from plump to start with.... Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Yeah. Gotta agree with Captain Sterling on this one. And I am what you might call an "ass woman". Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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