Sword and Sword Play

[Matty Bottles]

I thought it might be nice to get some opinions from those on the board who are familiar with using swords. I do not have experience with fencing or swordplay, and when I explore the possibility of talking lessons, I find a cacophany of conflicting opinions. It seems to me that there is Olympic Sport fencers on one side, classical fencers on the other, and SCA-style fencers on yet another. If anyone has good reccomendations, endorsements, or warnings, I'd be glad to hear them. I'm in Milwaukee, but I'm sure that others have similar questions, so I want everyone to feel free to chime in.

[CaptainJackRussell]

Well...it's a difficult topic...

I'm a fencer of the Liechtenaur-school (15th century) and also do Jogo Do Pau along to asian martial arts.

In Germany, you see the same picture of an old handwriting interpreted in a lot of different ways from group to group. Some seems to be logical, some do not, some simply don't work when trying at a little more speed.

We trained without full contact for many years, but the final question about the "does it really work" can only be answered when training at full speed. If you do it "half speed", one will always be a half and a point faster... Therefor we modified the armour used in Jogo Do Pau and now we can do exercises at full speed. We found out how some technics now work fine (not working al lower speed before) and the other way as well.

I guess, the best way to find out which kind of fencing is the best for you is to try them al. One by one.

Yours is that where you have the most fun.

Immer im Vor,

Jack

[Monterey Jack]

Depends somewhat on where you want to go with the swordplay. Are you thinking theatrical, historical, full-contact or all of the above? There are a number of WMA groups out there now specializing in various forms of swordplay. Most likely you'll eventually try all the venues and each has its pros and cons. Stage combat allows you to play for the public, and pull off being a swashbuckler without having to pad up and wear non-period protection. Historic works if you're interested in how it was really done, but you're limited to doing demos and sparring with more protection. Or you can do both; learn how to make historically accurate sword techniques safe to use in an entertainment format.

Modern (electric/Olympic) fencing has so little to do with actual swordplay its usually a disapointment for folks in our line of interest.

Check out both of these: they cover both the historically correct WMA styles and the stage adaptations of the same.

www.artofcombat.org

www.historicalmaritimecombat.com

Good luck!

[Matty Bottles]

Thanks, Monterey Jack!

[CaptainJackRussell]

Therefor also may be useful: http://www.aemma.org

Fair Winds

[Monterey Jack]

Therefor also may be useful: http://www.aemma.org

Fair Winds

Aye, That's Dave Cvet's group isn't it? Great presentations at ISMAC a couple years back.

[Hawkyns]

It really depends on what you are doing. My crew has developed a style based on the Sealed Knot's re-enactment sword manual. All cuts, no thrusts, which works well for cutlass play. It's a meld of re-enactment style. some stage combat techniques for the kicks and punches, and some Silver thrown in as historical leavening. it works, draws good crowds, lets us play unscripted and not knowing who will win, and is a hell of a lot of fun. We play with combat blunt blades, no armour other than gauntlets to protect the knuckles. We know going into it that this is dangerous and we could get, and have been, hurt. It's a martial art, after all.

All that said, this is not something you wnat to try for yourself. I've got nearly 30 years of swordplay behind me and been through a lot of different systems, from collegiate to SCA, to re-enactment, to escrima to kendo and other stuff besides. It also takes the temperament that you don't care who wins and it's all for fun.

Find your local SCA group, WMA group, dojo, or re-enactment unit. Talk to them and see who's involved with what.

Hawkyns

[Matty Bottles]

Thanks! There is a local branch of the Classical Fencing Society Scuola di Arma here with the cheapest rates at fifty bucks a month. I considered that, but it was a little steeper than I expected. I plan on being engaged by the end of the year, so I'm saving my money for other things; namely an engagement ring and historically accurate shoes. But mostly the ring. I think I'll check out my local SCA chapter; if I let things like cost or engagements keep from starting, I'll never get anywhere. Actually, my girlfriend suggested that we could take lessons together after we're a little more settled (meaning I have some medical debt paid off and have bought a ring for her. She'd be cool without getting a ring - but not if I was spending fifty dollars a month on fencing lessons!)

[Monterey Jack]

I plan on being engaged by the end of the year, so I'm saving my money for other things; namely an engagement ring <snip> She'd be cool without getting a ring - but not if I was spending fifty dollars a month on fencing lessons!)

Get the ring!

Your interests will come and go and branch out into other areas, but the ring is a permanent thing. Or should be.

I wound up in deep water for buying a $250 officer's sword instead of paying off my divorce fees and my second wife still hasn't let me live it down.

Get it right the first time and get the ring. :)

[The Doctor]

As someone what's been married 15 years come July, get the bloody ring! :)

I know, I know... She probably said she'd be fine without a ring. That's yer first bonechilling clue, mate... she said "fine". That be woman code for "Sure, yeah, whatever. Forget something this important to me while you run off and spend it on something you really think is more important than me!", or some such rubbish.

Three words for ye, if ye don't get the ring. "John Wayne Bobbitt" :) Think about it.

[Matty Bottles]

Oh, don't worry! The ring shall be got!

[outerdirkness]

Where did ya gey JdP armor and what were the changes?

[PyratePhil]

Just my two cents as a martial artist and "dancer on the fringes" of the SCA -

From what I've seen, although SCA style is nice and aggressive, you wear too much padding to ever make it realistic enough for period demonstrations. Keep in mind also that if you're used to padding, if it suddenly disappears for a demo, you'll have trouble pulling your strikes. There's an old saying - "you fight as you train"...

I would think the style you use would be influenced by your character's history - noble-borns would, I assume, have access to classical training, whereas commoners would be more hack-and-slash types.

We play with combat blunt blades, no armour other than gauntlets to protect the knuckles. We know going into it that this is dangerous and we could get, and have been, hurt. It's a martial art, after all.

Always remember Master Hawkyn's words - it IS a martial art, no matter WHAT level you practice at.