JoshuaRed Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hi gang - In my travels online I came across this, thought it was interesting. It's from "The Annals Of Philadelphia", published by John Watson in 1830. In it, he interviews old timers who grew up in the mid 18th century, and they share their recollections of daily life. Concerning sailors: With the queus belonged-frizled side locks, and toutpies formed of the natural hair, or, in defect of a long tie, a splice was added to it. Such was the gene- ral passion for the longest possible whip of hair, that sailors and boat men, to make it grow, used to tie theirs in eel skins to aid its growth. Nothing like surtouts were known; but they had coat- ing or cloth great coats, or blue cloth and brown camlet cloaks, with green baize lining to the latter. In the time of the American war, many of the American officers introduced the use of Dutch blankets for great coats. The sailors in the olden time used to wear hats of glazed leather or of woollen thrumbs, called chapeaus, closely woven and looking like a rough knap; and their " small clothes,"as we would say now, were immense wide petticoat-breech- es, wide open at the knees, and no longer. About 70 years ago our working men in the country wore the same, having no fal- ling flaps but slits in front; they were so full and free in girth, that they ordinarily changed the rear to the front when the seat became prematurely worn out In sailors and common people, big silver broaches in the bosom were displayed, and long quartered shoes with extreme big buckles on the extreme front. So perhaps there is some truth to Jack Sparrow's leather tricorn? Or would you say this passage refers to round leather skullcap-types? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 It seems to imply that the hatwas more just that...a cap. But I'm not givin up my handmade leather tricorne just yet! :) Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhand Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Joshua- Too me it sounds like he's confusing Light Bob caps with something else....I've never heard of any sailors or Marines wearing a leather jockey style helmut... but then I certainly haven't read EVERYTHING! Interesting quote about the hair....sounds almost like a Hessian....REALLY long que....I suppose on long tedious voyages, one must have had to of had some diversion. Also the quote about the petticoat breeches is interesting... the turning them 'round bit...waste not...want not I suppose. Thanks for posting that. -Redhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Jack Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Joshua-Too me it sounds like he's confusing Light Bob caps with something else....I've never heard of any sailors or Marines wearing a leather jockey style helmut... I have, though it may be off slightly period-wise. Gilkerson shows leather Boarding Caps in the first Volume of Boarders Away. The look just like a thicker heavy jockey cap except it has flanges to the oputside where it was molded into shape and the American ones had iron hooks on the side to catch cutlass blows to the head. These were used almost exlusively by American marines from 1803-1815 roughly. The "glazed" leather may have been what they called Latigo back then, which was impregnated with wax during the tanning to toughen the hides up and then they were buffed to make them more weather-resistant. Didn't sound like that's what they were talking about though. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 I wonder if it was merely a flat brimmed basic hat, cut from this glazed leather. I haven't really come across this description anywhere else. The elders that gave the author this info were mainly relating stuff from 1730 right thru the Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I wonder what the process of glazing leather was? You hear about glazed wool and glazed linen in the Rev War period, but the process wouldn't have translated well to linen (it involved heat and pressure). Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Maybe some kind of glue-like substance? Almost a shellac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I didn't want to bring this up until I'd managed to succeed but I'm currently chasing down an original 1703 leather seaman's hat which I know to be in existence. Should have something in the next two weeks, and I'll share it first here, of course. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Great news! Can't wait for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I don't have the vocabulary to understand a lot of that. Was was a "toutpie?" "Surtout" I assume is French for "overall," but does that mean something like what we call overalls? "Chapeau" is a very old word. "Chapeau de fer" was a word for a style of steel helmet as early as the 13th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 "toutpie" I assumed was related to "toupee", not necessarily a wig but perhaps a hairstyle (judging by the context) Chapeau is of course French for hat. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 The word toutpie is an early forerunner of the word toupee. And it must be a style, though just what that style is has me stumped. I'm picturing some bizarre comb-over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kass Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 "Surtout" I assume is French for "overall," but does that mean something like what we call overalls? No. A surtout was a coat. It was worn "over all" the rest of your clothes. Wow, Josh... That IS bizarre! In the 15th (or was it 14th) century, knights were described as being armoured "Capapie" -- which was from the French Cap a pied which meant from top to toes -- aka wearing a full suit of plate armour. I wonder if this "pie"wasn't the same. But that would mean "all foot"... Damn... Okay. Train of thought wreck! Building an Empire... one prickety stitch at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The word toutpie is an early forerunner of the word toupee. And it must be a style, According to Laver and Brooke's English Costume from the Seventeenth Through the Nineteenth Centuries "The toupet, or hair immediately over the forehead, was often natural, the join between the wig and the real hair being disguised by a liberal use of powder." An Elegant Art states toupee "M/F) Curl or artificial lock of hair on the top of the head. "Love in his lac'd coat lies,/And peeps from his toupee."Fielding, Grubstreet Opera, 1731. "Little Girls have their heads dressed a foot high so that their Faces seem to be just half way between the top of their Toupets and their feet." Northumberland, Diaries of a Duchess, 1774. Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The glossary in An Elegant Art states: Surtout "(M/F) long, loose overcoat with one or more spreading collars called capes. Became known in the the nineteenth century as a box coat. Worn by men 1680-1840s; after 1790, also worn by women. "He was forced constantly to wear a surtout of oiled cloth, by which means he came home pretty clean." Arbuthnot, Law is a Bottomless Pit, Exemplified in the Case of ...John Bull, 1712 Hector "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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