ARRRR!!! It's good to be a 'Yankee'

[dasNdanger]

Not sure which forum to put this in, so I'll start here, since it is an 'academic' subject based on a piratical topic...perhaps.

Online Etymology explains the origins of the word yankee this way: 1683, a name applied disparagingly by Du. settlers in New Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring Connecticut. It may be from Du. Janke, lit. "Little John," dim. of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alt. of Jan Kees, dial. variant of Jan Kaas, lit. "John Cheese," the generic nickname the Flemings used for Dutchmen. It originally seems to have been applied insultingly to Dutch, especially freebooters, before they turned around and slapped it on the English. In Eng. a term of contempt (1750s) before its use as a general term for "native of New England" (1765); during the American Revolution it became a disparaging British word for all American native or inhabitants. Shortened form Yank in reference to "an American" first recorded 1778.

On the Straight Dope site, it breaks it down a bit more. The origins of "Yankee" have been fiercely debated throughout the history of the Republic, and to this day the Oxford English Dictionary says the source of the word is "unascertained." Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation was advanced by H.L. Mencken, the well-known newsman-scholar (and don't tell me that isn't an unusual combination), who argued that Yankee derives from the expression Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese." This supposedly was a derogatory nickname bestowed on the Dutch by the Germans and the Flemish in the 1600s. (Wisconsin cheeseheads can undoubtedly relate.)

The English later applied the term to Dutch pirates, and later still Dutch settlers in New York applied it to English settlers in Connecticut, who were known for their piratical trading practices. During the French and Indian War the British general James Wolfe took to referring derisively to the native New Englanders in his army as Yankees, and the term was widely popularized during the Revolutionary War by the song "Yankee Doodle." By the war's end, of course, the colonists had perversely adopted the term as their own. Southerners used Yankee pejoratively to describe Northerners during the Civil War, but found themselves, along with all other Americans, called thus by the English during world wars I and II.

So - according to these sources, there is a possibility that the origin of the word 'Yankee' has it's roots in piracy. Anything out there to support this claim, or deny it??

das

[kass]

Oh, that's just too cool! I often do early 17th century Colonial stuff with Dutch and Swedish reenactors, so they should be calling me "Yankee"? Cool!

Me, I'm at home in my Yank-ness...

[Fox]

Interesting line of thought. In the second volume of Johnson's General History there are four chapters generally reckoned to be fictional (though I have my doubts as to how fictional): Captain Misson, Captain Tew (Tew was real enough, but the chapter is a fiction), Captain Lewis, and Captain Cornelius - John Cornelius. I wonder if there's anything in the choice of name.

[kass]

It was a rather common literary device of the period to name a character after one of his characteristics. His nationality could be one. Just like we say "GI Joe" as the name of an American soldier.

[JoshuaRed]

Yeah go Yankees! As a born & raised true New England yankee I've always had a fondness for that word and it's heritage.

Much better than "Flatlander".

[Fox]

Well, it would only be relevant if the etymology of the word was "John Cornelius", and not "John Cheese".

Incidentally, a real member of Kidd's crew was also called John Cornelius

[kass]

Well yeah...

But it all sounds like "Kass"!

[CaptainCiaran]

Alas, "Yankee" t'would not be a name to be calling native-born folks in the South. After 140 years, the War Between the States still seems as fresh in people's minds as if it had occurred only 50 years ago. Even here in North Carolina, which has had a tremendous influx of newcomers from the North, you will hear some native-born residents refer to Northerners as "damn yankees" more than you would imagine.

[kass]

Well yeah, Ciaran, but to the rest of the world, we're all "Yanks".

[dasNdanger]

Here's some more to mull over...

From Answers.com:

1. From the beginning, Yankee has been a fighting word. We first come across it in the names of pirates: one Captain Yankey, also known as Yankey Duch (presumably meaning "Dutch"), mentioned in 1683 and 1684, and a Captain John Williams, known as Yankey or Yanky, in 1687 and 1688.

By 1765, it had been applied specifically to inhabitants of New England, and not as a compliment. A poem published that year called Oppression, a Poem by an American, has as its hero "a Portsmouth Yankey," with the note, "our hero being a New-Englander by birth, has a right to the epithet of Yankey; name of derision, I have been informed, given by the Southern people on the Continent, to those of New-England."

For Foxe: "The origin might have been the phrase Jan Kees ("John Cornelius") (two very common Dutch names), which the English-speaking people picked up as "yankees", a word they used to refer to the Dutch."

das

[CaptainCiaran]

Well yeah, Ciaran, but to the rest of the world, we're all "Yanks"

Aye, indeed we are! I always wondered, though, especially during WWI and II, how men from the South dealt with that term.

[kass]

Not well, one expects. Why just recently on one of the email lists I'm on, an English poster joked about "you Yanks..." and a Southern poster took offense.

Although it can be used in a positive way too. A friend of mine from Georgia once told me, "You may have been born up North, but you ain't no Yankee." Well... I suppose not. I'm not Dutch and I'm not from New England either.

Personally I just think labels only have the power you give them. If you don't take it as an insult, it's not one.

[CaptainCiaran]

Personally I just think labels only have the power you give them. If you don't take it as an insult, it's not one. 

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

[JoshuaRed]

you will hear some native-born residents refer to Northerners as "damn yankees" more than you would imagine.

yep, I've been on receiving end of this, pretty harshly at times. For some reason I thought it would be a good idea to attend a portion of my college years in Savannah, Georgia. All was fine until the professor in my Southern History class found out me and my friend were from North of Boston...he almost went thru the roof with a tirade of Blackbeardian proportions!! I mean openly insulting us and berating us for daring to befoul his beloved city with our presence. It was NUTS! We just had to laugh as we walked out of the class loudly reminding him of our Northern prowess. I still feel bad about that....kinda...but HE started it!

Btw Ciaran, it does my heart good to see another Loreena Mckennitt fan. She's one of my all time faves. Apologies for the digression. ...

[dasNdanger]

I just tell 'em that I was born below the Mason-Dixon line, which isn't really true, since the line doesn't run through Jersey. But if it did, I would still be south of it. Besides, me grandma was from Charleston, so I have 'connections' in the south...which usually works until they find out about me great-great-great grandma being a slave and all.

Oh, it's all so silly, really. I've never been a prejudiced sort, and so sometimes I just don't get it. Why call people names or hate people and take exception to the things they can't change (ancestors' deeds, race, place of birth, etc...)...it's just so...primative.

das

[Fox]

I don't get the fuss, you're all damned Colonials anyway. :)

[JoshuaRed]

Yep, that's us...that noisy room full of rowdy 14 year olds disrupting the meeting!

[CaptainCiaran]

yep, I've been on receiving end of this, pretty harshly at times. For some reason I thought it would be a good idea to attend a portion of my college years in Savannah, Georgia. All was fine until the professor in my Southern History class found out me and my friend were from North of Boston...he almost went thru the roof with a tirade of Blackbeardian proportions!! I mean openly insulting us and berating us for daring to befoul his beloved city with our presence. It was NUTS! We just had to laugh as we walked out of the class loudly reminding him of our Northern prowess. I still feel bad about that....kinda...but HE started it!

Aye, Joshua, none of yer story surprises me. That war caused wounds that may n'er be healed. It goes so far beyond slavery, the complexities being more than need be discussed here. It truly was a war between brothers, as well as sisters.

(Heavy sigh.)

Btw Ciaran, it does my heart good to see another Loreena Mckennitt fan. She's one of my all time faves.

Arr, I remember when I first sailed into this Pub, over a year ago, ye mentioned that in yer greetin' to me. Loreena McKennitt provides much inspiration and happiness fer me. I'm glad that ye are as big a fan as I.

Cheers, mate.

[hitman]

Intresting stuff Das. I'd always been told it was a term derived by the British as an insult to us Colonials. As to being offended at being called a yankee I for one never have although I will admit to mock anger at every time I have been refered to as such. By the by a Yankee is a person who was born and lives above the Mason Dixon line a damn Yankee is one who now lives in the south! I do have to agree though Das hatered of people due to their race creed or whatever is just plain dumb. I mean even Yanks can be proud they ain't servents of King George. l

[dasNdanger]

King...who??

[Dorian Lasseter]

I don't get the fuss, you're all damned Colonials anyway. :)

Colonials? I thought we were "rustics"?

WHich would mean you folks from "the continent" are???

I am so amused by all the interesting words made up or taken from something else to explain or describe other folks...

[Fox]

Continent be damned! Don't tar us with that brush! It's like suggesting that Americans, Mexicans and Canadians are related! You're the ones who had the French on your side in that little fracas all those years ago! Anyway, aren't you the guys who had the "Continental" army?

I must tell you all this true story. Over here "dumb yanks" is a bit of a stereotype. We keep hearing about how half your school children can't point out their own state on a map, when asked what President Bush's first name is they reply "which one?"... that kinda thing. Anyway, being friends with a bunch of Yanks I've never paid too much attention to stereotypes... until one day, a few years back, I'm chatting with this American girl ('bout 20ish IIRC) - who knew I was English - and I used a word she didn't understand, so I had to explain it to her. "Wow" she says, "For a European your English is better than mine!"

[Patrick Hand]

When I lived in Tenn. they would call me a yankee, I quickly corrected them.... I was born just as far South, just much farther to the West.......

I had a friend that said he didn't know "Damn Yankee" was two words untill he was 13.......

[dasNdanger]

"For a European your English is better than mine!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh, that's priceless. I swear, Americans can be dumb - and I'm speaking as one. Sad to say, more Americans know all about Jessica Simpson's divorce than they know who fought in the Revolutionary War. Just totally clueless at times..annoys the heck out of me. In fact, that's why I'm HERE - to be able to talk with people that have knowledge about SOMETHING outside of Hollywood. But, in all fairness, a good portion of Americans eventually become self-taught during their early adulthood, so that by the time they're in their 30's, they've caught up with the rest of the world, for the most part. But yeah, American schools put more emphasis on sports than anything (I worked in a school district for 4 years (in the library) - drove me crazy that sports got priority in the budget above everything else, especially the arts.)

Hey - one thing I can finally say, though...There IS something that's better than England - and that's SCOTLAND!! HUZZAH To Scotland for finally whooping England in the 6 Nations!! *Goes off to watch the rugby match again...such a sweeeeeet victory!!*

Gosh, I'm really way OT here....

das

[Dorian Lasseter]

hehehe... this ol' Mick sure stirred th' pot....