Hey Foxe....

[Cut-throat]

I was cruising the net looking at pirate swag and I came upon something that brought a question to mind.

It was a Blackbeard 12'' figure that had burgundy leggings.

Link - http://darkfigures.com/blpiacfiwite.html

I was wondering if legging color varied throughout the GAoP, or if they were commonly white or off-white ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Fox]

Admiralty spec stockings were grey, and a quick cull of some of the inventories I'm working through reveals green, white, and "dark" stockings. The quaker George Fox is remembered for wearing red stockings which he'd bought by accident, being colour-blind. The armorial bearings of the Earl of Torrington included "hose... sable" (black).

What colour stockings would you like?

I'm thinking of posting a photo of that Blackbeard figure in a "dissecting the GAoP" thread!

[Cut-throat]

You mean no candy cane striped ones like I see in all of the "real" pirate costumes they sell for Halloween ? Damn !

Thanks mate....dissecting the GAoP thread ? Sounds interesting. Can't wait to see it.

What colour stockings do I want ? Well now that you shot my candy cane idea all to hell.....I guess I'll settle for grey.

[Fox]

I've not seen striped stockings until the 1770s, but we know they had striped everything else in the GAoP...

[Captain Jacob Badger]

Hmmm....the ''ask Foxe'' thread...could catch on matey......

Here's one fer ye..(prob bin asked b4).....an' I don'ts wanna steal the post or nuttin'.....but seein' that ye be in an answerin' mood......

What be the origin o' the word ''Savvy''?....we all knows the meanin'....'understands'....common sense...etc.....but were do it origionate mate??......enquirin' minds want t' know.....

I says again....don't wish t' steal thread space.....but it came up in convo this eve......(ye can move it t' a better place ifin ye sees fit mods...).

[JoshuaRed]

The origins of savvy are French, and MUCH later than Jack Sparrow. I believe it's a late 18th or even 19th C. word. But it sounds cool when he says it, so who cares, right?

That Sideshow Collectibles Blackbeard has festooned my desk at work for a couple years now, always got lots of good comments on it.

[Fox]

What Josh said ^^.

One of the things that really annoys me is that I've said "savvy" since I was a kid, it was a common word. Now I've had to stop using it and everyone seems to have forgotten that they'd heard it before Jack Sparrow used it!

[dasNdanger]

savvy: 1785, as a noun, "practical sense, intelligence;" also a verb, "to know, to understand;" W. Indies pidgin borrowing of Fr. savez (-vous)? "do you know?" or Sp. sabe (usted) "you know," both from V.L. *sapere, from L. sapere "be wise, be knowing" (see sapient). The adj. is first recorded 1905, from the noun.

O' course, meybe it were ol' Jack Sparrah who invented it...

The armorial bearings of the Earl of Torrington included "hose... sable" (black).

WAIT ONE STINKIN' MINUTE!!!!! I thought 'black' was a near impossible color to achieve back in the day of expensive, sun-sensitve dyes...

*folds arms and taps foot, waiting for a reasonable explanation as to why I can wear black stockings, but not black trousers....*

das

[kass]

Not near impossible to achieve, dear Das. Near impossible to keep black.

Black dye is generally achieved using iron which tends to rots fibres (this is why some of the extant blackworked shirts from the 16th century are disintegrating in museums -- the iron is eating the silk thread and linen fabric away).

Other black dyes can be made from vegetable matter as well as just plain old black sheep wool! But it's not "black black", if you know what I mean. If it comes out of the dyepot black, it tends not to stay that way for too long, fading to one of its component colours, like blue or red. That's what we call "fugitive" in the dye business...

The "black means your rich" truism is a myth. But you would have to be constantly replacing your clothing to keep your blacks black.

Make sense?

[dasNdanger]

Black dye is generally achieved using iron which tends to rots fibres (this is why some of the extant blackworked shirts from the 16th century are disintegrating in museums -- the iron is eating the silk thread and linen fabric away).

*counts the centuries on fingers....*

okie dokie then...since I won't be wearing me trousers for hundreds of years - maybe just two or three...I could get away wif faded black ones if I wanted to, eh? Or maybe dark blue...I just can't stand white...

Now - back to the topic at hand - regardless of color, were stockings ALWAYS worn, or did men sometimes go without, wearing shoes only?

das

[kass]

As far as I can tell, blue is always an acceptable colour for working-class people. It's indigo. It's cheap. From the middle ages onwards, it was almost a sign of commonness.

Stockings were always worn. Now that may sound strange to us who would pull them off in hot weather. But I seem to remember Foxe quoting from a GAoP source saying that the men took their stocking off to do some kind of standing-in-water work and the remark was made to illustrate how very odd this was.

I hope he posts it again. It was a good'un.

[Fox]

Just to reiterate what Kass said. True black (jet) is almost impossible to dye using natural dyes, is incredibly expensive, and fades very quickly.

On the other hand "black", meaning a kind of dark grey or blue (or even very dark brown) is not so hard to dye, is cheaper, but still fades.

So, poor scholars (for example) habitually wore black robes, but they were almost certainly actually grey or brown. Even today we tend to call things "black" when they're not.

Now, modern black fabrics use chemical dyes which make them true black and largely fade-resistant so if you used a modern black fabric to make your trousers then it would look completely wrong.

No trousers do not have to be white.

I post a lot of little snippets that I find in passing (usually while I'm looking for something else), so I can't be guaranteed to remember them. I did recently post a bit about a guy keeping his stockings ON when he went swimming. There is another account of some pirates on Madagascar in 1716, one of whom had no stockings or shoes on which the narrator thought was surprising. Yes, I think that stockings would have been worn habitually. Even by seamen and even in hot climates. You could get away without wearing them, but you would be considered half-undressed and it would be very unusual. Kass, you mantra please...

[kass]

"Don't Make the Rare Common or the Common Rare!"

[JoshuaRed]

To KASS!!

[kass]

Ooops! I didn't mean to repeat myself!