Jib Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 So what is the time frame before the GAOP called? Silver Age? The Morgan Era? How much of one time frame relates to the next (if the 1930's and 1940's was the time period of our grand parents, 1950's and 1960's was the time of our parents, and the 1980's was our time...)? I would guess that the prizes in the earlier time frames were better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 It was the Buccaneer's era; though I don't know if they gave it a catchy name or not! Aye, the prizes were better. They used to sack whole towns! And the Spanish galleons really WERE loaded with gold! Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I'll second Capt'n Willam on that. For me, the Buccaneering Era was about (mostly) English Pirates depriving of the Spanish of its gold/silver/treasure from the Americas to Spain. Later, during the golden age, its out of work sailors that are commerce rading on the eastern seaboard of the colonies and in the caribbean. That, of course, is over simplification. But, during the Golden Age, the great conflicts between France, Spain, and England are simmering but not boiling, so they are decreasing the size of their Navies so huge amounts of skilled seamen are now out of work and are turning to Piracy. Foxe has posted so figures on the number of out of work British seamen in other posts if you dig around. Currently, the Buccaneering period is underrepresented in the living history community. The only ones I can think of is Foxe and Co, Patrick Hand, and Hurricane (who is quietly corning the market on the Captain Morgan persona!). GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Assuming the GAoP starts about 1690ish then personally I'd probably refer to the previous 30 years (from 1660) as the Restoration Period - unless I was specifically talking about the Caribbean buccaneers. Even Foxe and co don't really do buccaneering - we do 1670s-80s navy, but we're only just thinking of moving into the pig-hunter type Caribbean buccaneer. So far as I know Pat is unique! Not for long though... Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Aye, we need to start covering more piratical bases. Our Baratarian crew - Battle of New Orleans, 1815, presently functioning only as a cannon crew at the annual reenactment - is starting to branch out into the GAOP: debuting as such at Fort Gaines, the weekend of March 4. Considering that the Buccaneers were in many ways like the Baratarians: branching into these 17th century brethren of old would be a logical eventual extension. Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 As for covering more pirate bases, I could probably do a pretty good modern pirate. M-16, bandana, overpowered black boat, machette...yeah, I've got all but the boat. I'm in the market, as it were. Then again, my Coast Guard Cutter is black, we board fishermen and arm ourselves to do it. All I'm missing is the bandana. And we're doing it legally, so I guess that's not quite piracy. Oh well, I can work on that. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 So get down to stores and draw a cammie bandana like the grunts wear. Hell, you can probably get Uncle Sugar to pay for it, Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Coastie, sounds like yer a modern-day privateer! Speaking of which: while my group's not the least interested in the Civil War, Mate Jan and I are going to start an impression of a Confederate privateersman. I've had an e-list for awhile - confederateprivateers@yahoogroups.com - but this will be "live". We'll probably debut the first weekend of August, at Fort Gaines. HITMAN, could you be there? Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 For me, the Buccaneering Era was about (mostly) English Pirates You're forgetting the French (insert good anti-French joke here) and the Dutch.... The Spannish don't count, they were the prey......... My Buccaneer stuff is English based... I didn't want to do French of Dutch, so I'm looking at everthing from a different prespective...... Morgan and then Dampier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I'm all for representing all ages of piracy in years past (not the 19th century on forward). Having seen Patrick and Redd Oktober's outfits last year at the Ojai Pirate event, I heartily agree we need more of the realistic side out there. Funny, I recognized the outfits for what they were, without anyone having to tell me. Hey, I read the stuff here in Capt. Twill, and I learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Why ignore the 19th century, Rumba? You have the Baratarians; then, a great upsurge in piracy and privateering in the Caribbean in the 1820's - 30's, what with the unemployed seamen in the wake of the close of the Napoleonic Wars: plus, the independence movements in the Spanish colonies. Then you have the last wave of privateering ever, during the American Civil War. Lots of good stuff there to reenact! :) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 You are correct Capt. William, duh me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Okay, okay, okay...LOTS of questions here... 1. So, when did this (Buccaneer) era begin, and when did it end? Did it date back as far as Drake & Co., and if not, what was THAT era, in piratical terms, called, if anything? (Besides 'Elizabethan') 2. Is this 'technically' when the Spanish Main was...well, the Spanish Main? As a term, did the Spanish Main actually still exist during the GAoP if Spain had, by then, lost some of its power in the region due to the shenanigans of the French/Dutch/British? 3. Did they wear sashes, bucket boots and earrings during the Buccaneer era? 4. Was piracy (as I have always thought) more 'acceptable' during this era since it was often state-sponsored, or at least, state-winked-at. 5. Besides Morgan, who were men of note during this era? Of these men, who were out-and-out pirates, and who were more like privateers? 6. Is the story I've heard of how the buccaneers (of Tortuga) turned pirate accurate - i.e.: French hunters were driven off of Hispaniola when the Spanish killed off the wild game in efforts to, well, drive the French off the island. The buccaneers, now on Tortuga, then retaliated by preying on Spanish ships that came around looking to restock their water/stores. Is it also true that the French sent prostitutes to the island in efforts to 'civilize' the men... NOT sure how THAT was supposed to work...but... 7. In my humble, this sounds like the more interesting period of piracy history in the Caribbean, when piracy flourished, and the relatively short GAoP (30 years?) seems more like the death throes of piracy in the region. If this is the case, then WHY do people focus on the GAoP instead of the previous era which, it seems, tends to be the era, with all of its trappings, that trickles into film about the GAoP? True, some items/practices from latter times (walking the plank, for instance) also find their way into tales about the GAoP - but it seems to me that more people confuse the styles, etc., of the buccaneer era with the GAoP. 8. And this is the most important question - what sort of pistol/musket was used during the buccaneer era? The relatively new flintlock (c. 1612)? Were matchlock, wheel lock, or snaphaunce (or any others) still in use during this 'buccaneer era'? Whew!!! That's all for now!! das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 If this is the case, then WHY do people focus on the GAoP instead of the previous era which, it seems, tends to be the era, with all of its trappings, that trickles into film about the GAoP? Ya know THAT is a good question. I mean a good buccaneering kit could consist of as little as some clothing rags and a knife. You can easily justify not having access to or knowledge of square rigger sailing, you could feasibly build an accurate small open boat for coast raids with a few friends over a winter or two. All you need is a small tent & period camping supplies. It would be a tremendous draw at festivals to have dig & setup an authentic buccaneering pit and have the smell of roasting pig drawing people from all over. Course the smell of your clothing would probably drive them away just as fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 In the briefest of answers: 1: The buccaneer period didn't really begin until the 1620 or so, and didn't really take off until a decade or two after. Drake and co were not buccaneers in the truest sense, and I think the major difference between them and the buccaneers is that they didn't base themselves in the Caribbean the same way the buccaneers did. Buccaneering seems to have been inextricably linked to colonization. 2: AFAIK (and I might be wrong) the term "Spanish Main" was in use from the 16th to 19th centuries. 3: not room enough for the full answer that excellent question deserves. 4: Depends how you mean really. "State-sponsored" piracy (or privateering) was more prevalent during that period, but piracy proper was still considered a serious crime. Joseph Banister, for example, was brought into Port Royal at the end of a yard arm with several of his crew during this period for piracy. 5: William Jackson, Prince Rupert, Christopher Myngs, "L'Ollonois", Michel de Grammont, Bartholomew Sharp, Richard Sawkins, John Coxon. Other notable figures who weren't commanders at this time include Basil Ringrose, Lionel Wafer, Esquemenlin, and William Dampier (all of whom are well known for their writings on the buccaneers) 6: Yup, more or less. 7: I defer to my honourable friend Mr Red. 8: The flintlock was the weapon of choice by Morgan's time, but doubtless matchlocks and the odd snaphaunce were still being used. The wheel-lock pistol was probably still quite common, though they were no longer made much. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Wow - k...I think I like this era WAY better!! Is there any way we can discuss it in further detail?? More, more, MORE!! Was...oh...what's his name...me secret favorite pirate of all time...Laurent de Graff (Larens, Lorenzo, or whatever you wanna call him) considered from this era, or the GAoP? And I know that Drake wasn't a 'buccaneer' - more of an explorer...but lol, there goes Webster's dictionary calling him a 'buccaneer'....lol! Anywho, what I was wondering was whether or not there was a piratey name for his time period, besides Elizabethan. Thanks SO much for answering so quickly!! I'm digging the pig roasting pit as we speak!!!! das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 There have been a few buccaneery type threads, have a hunt for Patrick Hand's "The Buccaneer Project" Laurens de Graaf is generally considered to be a buccaneer. I wouldn't describe Drake as a buccaneer, not because I think he was more of an explorer (his exploring activities, such as they were, were definitely a sideline of his plundering activities), but because a: he died decades before the term "buccaneer" came into use, and b: his activities don't really match the classic "buccaneer" pattern of using largish land forces or small numbers of men in small boats. Drake's style was quite different. Plus, as I say, he didn't use bases in the Caribbean in the long term, he made voyages to attack the Spanish rather than trips. I don't think there is a piratey term specifically for the Elizabethan age. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Maybe just the "Elizabethan Sea Dogs".... I believe Drake, etc were referred to by this moniker during their life times, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Ah, yeah - did a search on 'Elizabethan Sea Dogs' and several things popped up - so that'll work. Oh!! the Buccaneer Project...I remember seeing that, but not sure I ever read it...let me have a look-see!! Thankies, mate! das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jib Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 How much of this Buccaneer era would have over lapped with the English Civil War? 30 years war? Did we agree on bucket boots and ear rings? How about those big cavalier styled hats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 In purely chronological terms the English Civil War lasted from 1642-1660, so assuming that the buccaneer period started before and ended after the overlap was the full 18 years. The Thirty Years War is a little more difficult to define (different cultures put different dates on it, depending on what is pertinent to them - the Dutch, for example, refer to it as the Hundred Years War, or sometimes the Eighty Years War). Geoffrey Parker, in his definitive "The Thirty Years War" dates the conflict between 1618 and 1648. In that case there's almost complete overlap. In strategic terms the West Indies played little part in the English Civil War, except for some short inconclusive actions after the execution of Charles I. A Parliamentarian fleet under Ayscue turned up at Barbados in the early 1650s to put down the Royalist support there led by Lord Willoughby of Parham, and a few months later a Royalist squadron led by Prince Rupert turned up and captured a few ships before returning to England. Similarly, the buccaneering that went on during the TYW was related to the conflict in Europe, but didn't do much to influence, except perhaps in a financial way - viz. Piet Heyn's capture of the Spanish Silver Fleet for example. The English-Spanish war of the 1650s was probably more important to the Caribbean buccaneers. In 1655 Generals Penn and Venables captured Jamaica from Spain, providing the classic base for English buccaneer fleets to operate from. Sir Christopher Myngs' voyages in the late 1650s and early 1660s set a bit of a pattern for Morgan's later expeditions. I don't know if we agreed on bucket-boots and earrings, but there ain't a lot of point in continuing the debate until someone can bring some pro-boot or earring evidence to the table. Yup, some buccaneers might have worn boots, but there's no reason why they should have. Yup some buccaneers might have worn earrings, but there's no reason why they should have. Define "big cavalier styled hats". Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 If any dandy buccaneer WAS wearin' bucket boots the rest of his friends probably would have ripped 'em off his feet and boiled them up for food during the march back from Panama. One bucket boot could feed a whole mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If this is the case, then WHY do people focus on the GAoP instead of the previous era which, it seems, tends to be the era, with all of its trappings, that trickles into film about the GAoP? Ya know THAT is a good question. I mean a good buccaneering kit could consist of as little as some clothing rags and a knife. You can easily justify not having access to or knowledge of square rigger sailing, you could feasibly build an accurate small open boat for coast raids with a few friends over a winter or two. All you need is a small tent & period camping supplies. It would be a tremendous draw at festivals to have dig & setup an authentic buccaneering pit and have the smell of roasting pig drawing people from all over. Course the smell of your clothing would probably drive them away just as fast! Mate Joshua, you have some MIGHTY good ideas there; much "food" for thought, too (aye, that roast pig's got me droolin already!) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thanks bud. "Filipino Boxspring Hog" by Tom Waits could be the unofficial buccaneer anthem....check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thanks bud. "Filipino Boxspring Hog" by Tom Waits could be the unofficial buccaneer anthem....check it out! LOL - fun song...BUT...IT'S NOT 'PERIOD'!!! Sorry, couldn't resist.... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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