4 newly commissioned Cannons

[HarborMaster]

After recieving a 660 naval bronze mortar from a fellow by the name of "Powder Keg" we were very impressed by his work. We decided the best approach for our Scuba vessel would be to get Wes (Powder Keg) to turn 4 new guns from 416 Stainless Steel for us. We hunted around a bit for a pattern we liked and for what we thought would allow us to ship as cheap as possible overseas., as well as bang for the buck. Also we thought about being exposed to salt water and chose marine grade Stainless. Working with Wes also allows us to modify whatever we want to the cannon. We decided to buff up the trunnions a bit add length as well so we can use thicker cheeks on our carriages (greater stability) . And since it is a smaller gun we will be increasing the muzzle a bit to sort of emphasize the bell shape. I will post pictures ASAP., probably in a month.

Size and weight are a factor in overseas shipping prices. The particular gun pattern we chose will symetrically scale down to about 4" X 26" with a 1 1/2 bore. and over loading them shouldnt be a problem with Stainless.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

HM...

The world of cannon aquisition is a well worn path for you so I got a question.

Does ANYBODY make a full sized (6-8 pounder) GAoP naval cannon?

and

Should this be made of Naval Bronze?

Thanks

GoF

[HarborMaster]

Cannons LTD is worth checking out

Thats a tough one., and ALOT of $$$$$ in a Bronze .,

Also the closest thing I have found is a Full "1800" English Naval Gun

or a Full scale 1776 British lt. 6-lb. made byCannons Online

And there isSouth Bend Replicas

These people will do about anything you want., and they have supplied several Museums., but its a down payment on a house.......,for one.

Most of the cannons I have been able to find are Civil War and Pre Civil war to the late 1800s. There are people who will make what you want ., this is where I go., however for a full size 6-8 pounder your going to have to find a pretty big lathe., andhave it machined is my guess. To pour a bronze.,that big youll need a factory like HERN however they only pour Class 30 Iron., 8000lbs at a whack. and they are not set up for bronze. A GAoP Gun would probably have to be a custom from south bend.

Some one would do it., no doubt., its just a matter of money. Personally the only thing I have in bronze is a Wold Imports S1.75 bore signal cannon., and a 660 Bronze Coehorn Mortar and I can tell you from recent experience 13" OF 4.5" BRONZE ROUND BAR IS OVER 350.00 ., OUCH.

The Stainless on 4" is around 270.00 a foot.

I cant say that it should be made of Bronze., I believe there were alot of Iron Cannons., the golden gun (Bronze) Culverines were an upgrade. The Dutch were pounding out iron cannons long before GAoP. Also the Spaniards were pumping out alot of Iron and Bronze Tigre's ., and many 1700 and 1800 Lantakas came out of asia for swivel mounted guns. 4 footers with small bores.

About the only way I can really get what I want is thru some one like Wes. He can make a sub scale accurate anything from anything if you have access to the pattern. A Bronze cannon at say 1/2 scale in the Gun you are looking for may still be somewhere in the 7-8" breech diameter ., I believe he could dothat., but Bronze would be Alotta Copper an Tin.

A good one for you to try may be West of England This company has built some HMS Victory 32 lb'ers.

[Fox]

Bronze isn't a requirement for GAoP naval guns. Cast iron was much cheaper and lighter than bronze making it ideal for use on ships. Bronze guns certainly turn up on wreck sites, but so do many iron guns.

Also, even fourth rate warships carried guns as small as 4lbers or so (not including the swivel guns and boat mounted pedereroes).

Still, the question still stands about full sized iron 4lb guns...

If you've got a spare couple of thousand I came across a pair of original Queen Anne barrels for sale a while back. They seem to have gone though.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I guess I should have been more specific....

I was wondering if Cannons made for Naval purposes were made from "naval" bronze. That is, would their be "regular" bronze cannons on ships?

I understand that "naval" bronze is more expensive then regular bronze... but I guess both are expensive anyway.

You mentioned Iron.... any ideas how much an iron 4-8 pounder (made to GAoP specs) would cost?

Thanks for the help by the way.

GoF

[HarborMaster]

Well if your cuttin'er down from a 6-8 lb'er to a 4 pounder you can get one.

Full scale British 4-pounderw/crown and cypher $11,400 .,3.2" Bore .,at 620lbs and 49 inches in length. This would be from Cannons LTD , in a bronze model.

You can get that same barrel in a Class 30 Grey Iron for $4,399 at 550 lbs.

This is why I bought my barrels from HERN Iron Works., the prices are much better at their foundry however they dont make the models we are talking about. Also I needed to fit a certain criteria., 1 weight., 2 shipping and 3rd length.

You have to remember naval bronze has greatly changed over the years., getting one of the same metal would maybe be more because they would have to get a custommix for you . Todays Bronze for example 660 Bronze has alot of Copper 85% I believe along with Tin and a few other metals in the mix. Todays alloys are definitely superior metals.

There are several differant Bronze alloys., To say regular bronze..,is leaving the door wide open to a bronze that could corrode easily., Some stainless will rust., Stainless 303.,304 and 316 are greatly differant. 316 being for marine use., and 303 for kitchen and restaurant., meaning 303 wont rust,.exposed to food and water and soaps., very durable and what a great cannon it would be., but submerged in saltwater it would fail, 316 is considered propellor shaft., and in the form of a cannon laying at the bottom., could be retrieved centuries later looking literally brand new.

Depends on the legacy you want to leave I guess. Cannons are a great way to leave something your grand children will thank you for and fight over (Grinning). The beauty of it is you can have them etched with your logo (Deep) and there going to be around a LONG LONG TIME.

Mine are 55" at 340 lbs for the barrel. After a total build ., they weigh out to about 750 lbs a gun., thats because I have steel wheels with precions cased bearing and zirk fittings for grease. As well as steel axels and axel trucks., and a 1/2" steel floor plate as to allow water to run off of them during sea spray and rain. My Carriages cheeks are Philippine Mahoganey and look great from the side but of course with close inspection youcan see they are a modernized interpretation. But I need to ensure I wont be building these again., with wooden floors and wheels in tropical heat and rain.

I think it really depends on if money is no object., or if practical purposes and dollar for dollar counts as to what may be best to do. I wish i had the Kings money ! ! !

I compromise where I need to to get what I feel I want/ and what works. The new 4-pak for our boat is pretty close to a Queen Anne era in a sub scale model. I ' will post a few photos when they arrive as well as a blast video of one laying on the ground. before I ship them. They should have considerable more bang than my 1" bores I recently built..,but not quite what my 30" old English 1.75" bore does! and it is of GAoP style. Just its cast from 80% Stainless and 20% nickel....., It'll be around a long time..., I could see it being in someones hands a millenium from now if the world holds together.

But I am but a humble plumber type pirate.

[HarborMaster]

Note: 1 key item to look for on a true GAOP gun of Queen Anne era .

To tell a modern replica even up to a 150 year old good replica., more often than not has the trunnions set at 180 degrees apart.

The real deal more often than not at that time in a casted gun., the trunnions were usually set below center. And so was a good doop off a real casting.

Meaning you really could not flip the barrel over and drill the vent on the best looking side for the guns top. On my old english the trunnion is casted in during the pour clearly visable across the bottom of the barrel.

There is a top and there is a bottom. On a machined gun., you can get better trunnion mounts at 180. To machine a doop and then machine a cross bore thru for a trunnion and then weld the trunnion into place and machine the bore again., wouldnt supply enough strength to the cannons trunnion to support the cannons weight under fire. This trunnion would really need to be casted in place.

A fine example of this weight and need for a good solid casted trunnion mount would be to look at a Carronade. The Carronade being built in 1769 doesnt make it GAoP however it shows you a lowered trunnion on carriage mounted models. The Swivel slide mounted 32 and 68 pound models areof course something all together completely differant.

[HarborMaster]

Its been a long time since I posted anything in this thread. It should be changed now to" 6 newly commissioned Cannons " . We are putting 3 cannons per side on our Scuba boat.

I have been in line waiting my turn as the manufactor had a list ahead of me. Needless to say my time has come Wes has begun building 6 new cannons for me.

Moderators stop me or tell me this stuff is ok to post here. To continue would be build photos following this post. Or should I start a new thread?

We will be referring to these custom guns as " Boat Howitzers"

[Capt Thighbiter]

400 series stst? really? My metalurgical charts say 400 is only fair in seawater and is subject to pitting attack.

too bad you cant spring for Monel or K-monel - it will last forever in seawater. But if you thought bronze was expensive......

[The Chapman]

Absolutely post pictures and such. Firstly, the discussion about metallurgy is very interesting, and since I work on the principle that it's not possible to know too much about anything (or at least have the information handy), cannon casting certainly fills a bill.

Also, I live in a region where manufacturing jobs continue taking wing and flying over the ocean; it's pleasing to see US shops and outfits taking the initiative to foray into new areas to keep their people working. Good for them.

Too, think of working at a place like that. You're at the bar:

"So, what do you do?"

"I work at Unified Widget. We make impellers for circulating pumps. What do you do?"

" I work at Rustbelt Industry. we make CANNONS".

[HarborMaster]

I gotta stick with the material I have purchased Capt. Thighbiter. Here is what we are dealing with. ., and the project is just now begining

Welcome aboard this thread The Chapman . Follow along and let us know your there.

That is a beer can mortar with a beer in the mortar on the floor to the left of the first bronze round bar., its set there for size refrence. These arent very big but theyll work. I will be proud of them when they are finished I am sure. These cannons were chosen for there size due to shipping....., any more cannon than this hurts to ship over-seas and then at 6 times . Ouch.

[oderlesseye]

Hey put up a pic of the one of those babies being machined on the lathe!

I luv chips!.... Be sure to breath while your babies are being delivered!

Are these gonna be rail mounted? Are ya gonna have to strengthen those areas of the scuba boat for swivel mounts?

[HarborMaster]

Be sure to breath while your babies are being delivered

I am excited about this to be sure Eye.

As soon as Wes posts me a pic or two I will surely post them here. Those first chips will be coming out of the bore so he can lighten up the work load right from the beggining.

These will be Carriage mounted . The barrel size and carriage size will be very close to this 1/2 scale Wild Imports .

[oderlesseye]

How accrurate to period is the carriage pictured here...

There might be a "carriage project " coming to the cove

after the wife gets her jewlry box... LoL..

[HarborMaster]

Size wise thats about what we are doing. But how accurate is really in the wind. About every ship yard made their own carriage suitable to whatever cannon it was for., and then where it would be placed., then the next ship was differant., then the next yard over did theirs differant., then the next town., colony., country...., Probably the only ones that had consistency were aboard the same vessel.

Any carriage you do I am sure would work out well.

Wild Imports clearly has the wrong cap-squares (Trunnion caps) ., But they work well . I dont believe the steel axels are period ., I could keep going but for myself I would be happy with it as I am sure many would be,

The Red is true. Beautiful furniture like carriages we not the norm, painted was. I believe Red wasnt as demoralizing to the crew when blood ran the decks.

[oderlesseye]

Though this is just a static decorative carriage... Eye was told it was all wrong.

This gave way to the idea of building some that would one look "more authentic"

but Now i am thinkin to hell wit the opinion (of some one else) of "not period" because i spent so much tyme painting two of them. Besides it is myself i aim to please in the cove project thing anyways..

One Question i have of ye is that becuase the cannon you are building are going to be on carriage, I don't under stand how they are going to fit on the boat.. I have been to your web site and well, the scuba boat(s) look a bit small

for the application. Perhaps ye can correct my vision ? Are some of these going to be stratigically place about the compound?

[HarborMaster]

Eye think thats a right fine cannon Eye for the cove project., and also it is about pleasing oneself.., Amen to that brother. I have been following along and its a cool hang out for sure., there is time and money in there.,I would be pleased as punch to attend an event there.

That has 2 trails and could be like the single horse range hoppers called "The Galloper" from Rev War days..., or it could have been designed from something much earlier just a few years after the English Bombard of 1450.

About ours ., they will be carriage mounted. The Scuba unit is not like you are currently seeing on the website. Those are Banca's they jam right along but those arent what we are doing...., those are just some pics of us diving and having fun. Actually those Bancas are a mere 2000 U.S. for a 40 footer with a diesel.

[oderlesseye]

In kind I will be following your post here too, It's way cool to see a person as you realize their dream! Are ye gonna do it before ye hit 50? I'm jeleous a bit... I saw a merchant ship tied up at Sea Port Village here in San Diego last week-end. The thought occured to me to run away! Ifen i was'nt married i think i might have.... I'm tired of factory work like ye are of slingin shyte.

[HarborMaster]

Eye.., before 50 is the goal..,48 will be a key year., 49 I should be there and 50 running the place...., Eye hope. The more Eye save the more inflation goes up with it. Right now I am still just chasing the dream.

Here is some work which was done to make chips.., no chips yet., still preparing. Wes had to make a drill in order to Bore the cannons out., and he likes boring first because it lightens the load on the lathe first thing. Also with drilling stainless he knew the bit would get hot and dull ., so he drilled a hole thru the bit to run coolant thru his bit..., pretty smart guy !

From this last pic I am sure you can see the bit is stationary and the cannon turns., this way he can get the coolant down the bit.

Sorry no cannon pics yet..., but the next photos will be cannons in the making.

[oderlesseye]

I use all kinds of coolant thru tooling on the mill I run at work.

The difference though is that you have a guy with the where-with- all to do whats needs be done. He's a real machinist... I'm glad to say I don't have to make custom tooling though... Lazy pyrate i am....

[Commodore Swab]

You asked for full size 6 pounders in bronze GAoP correct. Yes they can be had fully functional with a liner or fully functional as a single bronze piece $$$

Here the last pair is finished and displayed in the entrance of the museum they were built for

Or is a land based mortar is more your style . . .