Rating system for Plunder

[Patrick Hand]

I have noticed many post in plunder about Pyrate stuff... but unfortunatly they all kinda turn into little "flaimette wars" (Hey... were all cool here.... so we don't have big flame wars.......just some dissagrements about stuff...)

Someone posts about a source for a coat, or boots or hats, Then there are replys about the quality and authentisity of the item.... Then it turns into a discussion about if the item is period correct, or "I don't care if it is period, I still like it..."

OK... in the Pub there are the "Authentics" and the "Play Pyrates" both groups see "Plunder" from differnt viewpoints.... and there is no problem with that... we all do what we enjoy....

What I am Suggesting is a Rating system for Plunder.... simple and basic.... from one to five * symbols .... * being terrible....***** being "this is fantastic"....and 0 used for "I don't know"

BUT for quality and authentisity.......

an example..... someone post about a cool pyrate coat..... the quality is great.... but well... it isn't realy authentic..... but not "that" far off.... so it would be listed as....

Pyrate Coat: *****/**

It gets a ***** (5) for the quality of workmanship... but it's not authentic enough to get a higher rating...... (and if you are not sure about the rating... just give it a 0... no comment, or "I don't know"....)

Another example.... someone finds a replica of the baldrick buckle that Jack Sparrow wore in "Pirates of the Caribbean" The quality is OK, but they have no idea if it is period or not.... so it would be listed as...

Jack Sparrow Baldrick Buckle: ***/0

But this buckle with a bit of file work and because it is at such a good price.... they would tell us that in their post......

With such a rating system, someone that is interested in an item would be informed about it..... If you are a "Play" Pyrate, and someone post a cool jacket, with a good rating on quality, but low to poor on authintisity... hey, If you like it.... none of the "authentics" are going to chew you head off it you buy it...... But if you want to be more authentic, you would look somewhere else before spending you money on something that isn't period correct for what you are doing.....

Information is the key here...... Everyone can make a decision based on what they are doing...... If you are a "play Pyrate" quality is going to be important to you. "Authentics" will look at quality and authentisity.... But with Information, we can make "informed" decisions on what we want to spend our money on........

[Bloody_Mary_Bonney]

Okay i kinda get it but somewhere in the middle you kinda lost me

[greenighs]

Wonderful invention, Mr. Hand! I raise me ****/0 Captain and Lime Diet Coke t'ye fer thinkin' it up!

I have th' highest respect fer th' authentics, an' I defend th' rights o' th' ren faire groupies t' party in their plether halters an' Frye biker boots t' ther hearts' content. Just don't take th' wind outta me sails cuz no real pirate had a green tricorn. Or a Long John Silver bobblehead. Or a pair o' glow-in-ther-dark skull&crossbones wristbands. Or wore an underwire brar (because th' girls'll have yer hide ifin ye try t' take it away from them ... without asking ... nicely ...)

[callenish gunner]

AMEN!!! patrick it gets old to hear both sides firing salvo after salvo as to what is the only way to do pirate kit .....there are lots of folks who like to come out and dress as they imagine the way pirates dressed

and since there is only artistic evidence of what the pirates of the day wore or carried there is plenty of room for interpretation and besides a broad period of tyme and fashion trends to contend with ....if there is a definative source that will put the wisdom of solomen to this argueing then let it come forth...otherwise cleave this babe in two and let each have their half ....let the faire pirates have their way and let the devote historicals have theirs ....and QUIT BITCHIN'

the use of the words historic or interpretive might preceed the posting of items of kit so that it clear from the outset what it is and stop the damned grousing as to who's the better pirate

i give patrick's idea 4 skulls

[Patrick Hand]

Sorry to go off topic..... but heck... couldn't help myself....

Or wore an underwire bra

Dang I hate wearin' an underwire bra..........

OK back to the idea of a rating system for plunder.........

[Gentleman of Fortune]

****WARNING**** ****WARNING**** ****WARNING****

Those with delicate sensibilities regarding authenticity please don’t read.

PAT

While your idea is interesting in theory, the reality is that it would be difficult to enforced and rife with opportunity to abuse it.

First, there are A LOT of varying degrees of knowledge about historical accuracy here at the pub. And even among those that I would consider "knowledgeable", there would be differences of opinion in what would be considered a 4 or 5....

One of the things that I consider a problem is that the PLUNDER section here at the pub has kind of devolved into a shameless self promotion area for folks that have a business or those that are looking for buyers for the latest thing that they have listed on e-bay, or the latest pirate best-seller they wrote..

Now since there are no official "rules" for what is and is not allowed, AND that fact that, rightfully so, this forum serves both the Authentic pirate living history types as well as the Fantasy Pirate ren-faire types the gate for consideration is open and wide.

How many times in the last month alone have we seen topics with subject lines like:

"Great Pirate Coat on E-Bay!"

This makes me beg the question:

"Great for what???"

The answer more and more is becoming "Great for me if you buy it!"

What I would rather see is someone post:

Great ren-faire fantasy pirate coat for sale on e-bay.

or even better still

I have been making a few fantasy style Pirate coats and would like to try to sell them. Since I have been a member here for the last few **weeks/months/years** (anything but "Minutes") and Before I schlok them on e-bay to the masses, I wanted to offer them here to my brothers and sisters here at the pub

I have ranted about this in the past, that I really get torqued by folks that seem to be in the business of selling/making/writing pirate related things, but the first time we find out about them is in their first post on the board which is an advertisement for their products.

It makes me wonder where they have been? Now granted, this is all my not so humble opinion, but I can't help but think, "If you like pirate stuff so much, where have you been?".

If I was writing a book about pirates, fiction or non-fiction, I would have been a member of various net forums first. I would have been finding out from folks that have been spending loads of time studying and researching first, then wrote the book and used the forum as a medium for selling my stuff.

I also have to wonder if some of these "makers" of pirate clothing have ever been to a museum to see 17th/18th century clothing, have ever glanced through The Cut of Men's Clothes, or even asked a knowledgeable textile historian what is correct ***BEFORE*** they made the clothing!

Soooooo

When someone post a pirate coat for sale here at the pub with no disclaimer what so ever, It almost begs to have a qualifier put on it by an established member of the forum.

I would hate for someone who was new to the hobby and wanted to do this correctly (read historically accurate) to buy something inaccurate because they felt that since it was listed here at the pirate hangout, it must be acceptable.

Those of you that are in to the Fantasy "spirit of piracy" gig do not have this problem. You can wear anything you want and it is self justified. But those of us that are trying to represent a historical time period do not have that luxury.

I am not pitting one against the other as I feel that its a big enough world for both, and in most instances, WE NEED EACH OTHER.

But that being said, the Authentic side of the house has "rules" or at least parameter to work within, so we constantly have to monitor what is available to our disciples.

Granted, there is a tactful way to do this without stepping on other toes, but some are better than others when it comes to constructive criticism.

And I don't think that one-post-wonders who drop in to make a buck should be given a free pass regardless of how honorable their intentions may be.

[Fox]

Great idea Patrick, if it can be made to work then it should be.

I see only one flaw, but it's quite a biggie. Who would police it?

Mr A finds a cool source for well priced, authenticish swords, and posts a link giving it ****/****. Mrs B thinks that although the swords are quite authentic looking they have a lot of minor faults and argues that it should instead be ****/***. Who decides?

A similar problem would arise with sites, rather than specific products. Miss C posts an ad for her costume business and gives it ***/**** because most of her stuff is pretty authentic, BUT she also has a small line of "Halloween" pirate costumes. Is it right to give the impression that all her stuff is good, if people can still buy less authentic stuff from her site too?

I think GoF's rant is well placed, and I do find it irritating when people join just to advertise themselves. OTOH, if what they are selling is of interest to people then surely it could be argued that they are providing a service? They should at least stick around to face questions and potential criticism (on grounds of quality as well as authenticity).

**********************************************************

In the long run it strikes me that if people could ust get the chips off their shoulder there should be no problem with the current system. If something was advertised which was of a known low quality (like, it fell apart...), then NOBODY would object to a post illustrating the fact, despite the fact that not everyone will care about the quality. Authenticity-minded people should be free to say when something isn't authentic without being subjected to abuse for it. :)

[JoshuaRed]

Minor discrepancies in ratings are fine though, because as a potential buyer scrolls down the thread he/she will get an OVERALL consensus based on all the ratings. If most of the ratings are high, it will tell viewers that the item may be well worth considering. An item with consistent low ratings will also serve a useful purpose.

It's like browsing Amazon - each item has an "overall" star rating that is a continuously updated average of all the individual ratings.

[Bonnie Red Weasel]

What would be wrong with encouraging this system for both the original poster and subsequent posts?

Joe, for example, gives this spiffy hat on ebay *****/*****. Trevor, looking at the listing, realizes, with his vast knowledge of the GAoP, that a leather baseball cap with an embroidered Calico Jack, though cool looking, is not exactly "period". So Trevor posts his observations, and gives the hat a 0/*.

It's just like shorthand for what we're already posting, but would make sorting through posts/threads easier.

If we shouldn't let folks rate an item in stars because we don't trust their evaluation, then why are we letting just "anyone" on this board post at all? Should potential posters be carefully screened?

I've still got a broken wrist, and am still typing left handed. So it's difficult, physically, for me to make this post. But I really think Patrick is on to something here, and I'm also beginning to get concerned about people becoming afraid to post what knowledge or experience they DO have, because of the likelihood of their being blasted.

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

Aye Patrick I do like your idea!

Unfortunately it does seem that some DO have "chips on their shoulders" and are going to berate any idea that might work unless there is some way that everything that gets posted comes with a certificate of authenticity.

I used to enjoy coming in here to check out what Plunder people had posted. It's one of the only topics I read habitually.

Why? Because I enjoy looking at what people are selling out there. AUTHENTIC or not. I also like to see posts that are warning folks of bogus "authentic film props"

Why is it that the authenticity police HAVE to be the first to post after someone posts about a "great pirate coat"? Why can't people here be treated as intelligent enough (granted , not NEARLY as intelligent as those clever authentic pirates obviously) to make up our their minds.

The question really is...who says it can't be a great pirate coat if it's not authentic.

Unfortunately Patrick, I think to make it useful to all there would need to be another rating added.

You would need the QUALITY rating, the AUTHENTICITY rating, and a COOLNESS rating.

Because there ARE some of us that don't care about how accurate something is but do care if folks think is might be a good pirate coat for oh, the majority of the hundreds of people on here.

The histroy police, it seems, are always going to have to chime in to "protect" us idiots that don't know better though, so maybe the rating thing wouldn't really work.

By the way Patrick, you're one heck of an historical pirate, yet can go to a faire or event and have a blast. I have also never seen you jump on anyone for posting about an item that THEY thought was a "great pirate coat" It's a shame all the historical folks aren't the same.

[greenighs]

On the aquarium sites I belong to, there are specific "vendor" forums where commercial posts have to be approved by the admins or moderators before they are posted. The there are "classified" forums where member-to-member sales and trades can take place. Those posts are watched by the staff, to make sure nobody is getting scammed or misusing the forum for commercial purposes. One site even has a "vendor experiences" forum, for members to report how satisfied or disappointed they are with a particular seller or product. This forum is also watched, so no malicious "sour grapes" posts will be tolerated. The moderators will edit or delete inappropriate posts, or move them to the right forum.

Not sure who you see as being blasted unjustly. Looks like the chips are widely distributed on many shoulders, from what I can see. I apologize if I spoke out of turn, for no disrespect of those with more knowlege and experience was intended.

[Lady Seahawke]

I have all but left here, because of feeling blasted by the "historical authenticity police" on as constant basis. I am a great history buff, I am an avid reader, I think I spend more time with my books then most anything else...but, am tired of feeling that I have to have 10 or 15 quotes to back up every little sentence and/or word and another 10 or 15 more to back up my sources. This constant bickering has left me with a bad taste for the whole subject...

Would I love to have everything TOTALLY "authentic" Hell yes, but it costs mucho bucks. So there are some items I make do with.

Then again, some items I have because IT IS MY PERSONNA. WHICH MEANS if I had the same personality as I do now back then...THEN IT IS WHAT I CAN SEE AS I WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE BACK IN THAT DAY! I am not trying to imitate someone else some unknown person from a bygone day. I am an individual and have always walked to my own music. And if I had lived back then I would have done the same... So my look, is mixture of authenit to period, plus my own personality....In other words...it may not be authentic to you but it is to ME! Huzzah.

Now in regard to the rating system...IMHO

The other idea is the rating may work but instead of stars just use numbers. Easy and to the point.

0 for not at all...

5 for perfect.

And if you don't know N/A

[Patrick Hand]

A rating system wouldn't tell you what you can or cannot buy, it would give you the information about an item. If you are trying to be authentic, you would be interested in the authentisity rating..... if you don't care if an item is authentic or not, you would just ignore it.

I think the system would govern itself.... If an item was listed with a high authentisity rating by Kass or Foxe or Gentleman of Fortune, then you could be sure that it was correct. If an item got a high authentisity rating only by the person selling it.... well you could decide for yourself .....

Ace does a realy good Jack Spareribs impression, so if he found a baldrick buckle that was exactly like the one from the movie, you could be sure that is was good. Now Foxe might post that it isn't authentic, so someone looking for a good baldrick buckle could make an informed desission about if the buckle would be right for what they are doing.

[greenighs]

By the way Patrick, you're one heck of an historical pirate, yet can go to a faire or event and have a blast. I have also never seen you jump on anyone for posting about an item that THEY thought was a "great pirate coat"

Hear here (heer?)! I quite agree. He is a pirate's pirate, indeed, always thinking of the solution, not elborating upon the problem. I'll be takin my lessons from him from now on. Thankee, Mr. Hand!

[Rumba Rue]

Been there, done that, got my head chewed off by the person making the outfits.

Sorry, no rating system will work. Someone is going to get pissed.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Again, though some might not believe it, my intention is not to pit one side versus the other. If you want that kind of dialogue, then search the archives here (or for any other re-enacting period you care to look into... they all have the same "problems").

I will say this though, in Reply to ACE

I used to enjoy coming in here to check out what Plunder people had posted. It's one of the only topics I read habitually.

Why? Because I enjoy looking at what people are selling out there. AUTHENTIC or not.

I guess that that IS my point. There is nothing for sale here only links to things that are sold elsewhere, mainly e-bay.

And our Moderator is very democratic and believes in the rule of law so he has to let the gate stay “open and wide”

But if you really want to see what is out there "authentic or not" just go to e-bay and search "pirate coat".

You will get an eye full.

Again. I will admit that I am an a$$hole about certain things, but I have come a loooong way baby on some other things as well.

I recognize the importance of the pirate "entertaining" community out there, as I could care less about “edutaining” the "public" any more anyway (Hey, I am just being honest) so for those of you who enjoy it, thanks for doing the stuff that I don’t want to do.

And besides, 95% of the public that goes to the events would rather have their picture taken with Ace in his Johnny Depp kit than me anyway… even if I was wearing a complete authentic original sailors kit from 1717 borrowed from the Maritime Museum in Greenwich!

But for me, I don’t want that 95% fawning on me anyway (ok, except for the hot chicks).

I am more interested in that 5%. Tjhe ones that might actually know something about maritime history, and want to know the minutia about linen ticking, or what ship life might have really been like. (And I am sure Ace rolls his eyes out of his friggin’ head when someone asks him about linen ticking! )

So again, we have kind of a symbiotic relationship that we can use to our advantage if we choose to.

I won’t disparage your right to wear Dracula’s coat with a tri corn and call yourself a Fantasy Pirate enthusiast; so please don’t chastise me when someone posts a link to an e-bay auction that has a "Great Pirate Coat" that is nothing like anything that ever existed in the 17th/18th century, and I post a reply saying so.

GoF

[Fox]

What would be wrong with encouraging this system for both the original poster and subsequent posts?

Nothing whatsoever, in fact the first thing I said on this thread was that if it could be made to work then it should be.

If we shouldn't let folks rate an item in stars because we don't trust their evaluation, then why are we letting just "anyone" on this board post at all? Should potential posters be carefully screened?

My point exactly. Who's to say what's right? I think Joshua's point about "average" ratings is a good one, as is yours about a ratings system being a kind of shorthand for what's already being said/done. I was, and am, opposed to anyone being able to "define" a correct rating.

Unfortunately it does seem that some DO have "chips on their shoulders" and are going to berate any idea that might work unless there is some way that everything that gets posted comes with a certificate of authenticity.

I wasn't trying to berate anyone (see earlier comments), nor to suggest "certificates of authenticity". Since you've brought the matter up, what exactly is the problem with someone saying that something is not as authentic as it might seem in the same way as someone saying that something isn't such a good bargain or whatever? Would the same objection stand for a star-based system rather than a verbal one?

I have all but left here, because of feeling blasted by the "historical authenticity police" on as constant basis

I am sorry you feel that way. I'm not a full-time visitor to "Plunder", but in my visits I have never actually seen anyone blasting anyone else (whilst making the difference between "blasting" and pointing out inaccuracy politely.)

If it is in "Captain Twill" that you feel you have been blasted I apologise, but since that forum is specifically for "Academic talk on maritime history, research, & interesting info", one must expect a reasonable amount of dissension if one's arguments are not illustrated.

Ace does a realy good Jack Spareribs impression, so if he found a baldrick buckle that was exactly like the one from the movie, you could be sure that is was good. Now Foxe might post that it isn't authentic, so someone looking for a good baldrick buckle could make an informed desission about if the buckle would be right for what they are doing.

It would be nice if the forums worked like that, that's the way they should work, but doubtless I'd be called an "historical wanker" or something similar if I dared raise the A word.

Please don't get me wrong, I am in full agreement with GoF's "live and let live" policy, and I admire Ace's dedication to what he does. It just seems to me that any "berated" or "putting down" wich goes on here (and I mean, really, actually look through the threads and tell me I'm wrong) tends to come from the fantasy side of the fence. When did you last read Blackjohn, GoF or I calling anyone names for their Fantasy portrayal?

There's no need for any kind of "them and us" mentality, we're just approaching the same activity from different angles.

And besides, 95% of the public that goes to the events would rather have their picture taken with Ace in his Johnny Depp kit than me anyway… even if I was wearing a complete authentic original sailors kit from 1717 borrowed from the Maritime Museum in Greenwich!

And here another interesting side-issue raises itself. In other countries (including the UK) authenticity is a bigger issue for a bigger proportion of both re-enactors and public. We must not neglect the international minority here.

I AM in favour of a simple way for people to get a good idea about what they're buying, and I think that an Amazon style average-rating is a good idea (provided it's not abused, like by a vendor getting their mates to up the average or whatever).

The only way to start it is to start it, so I suggest that the next interested person to post something sets the ball rolling. :)

[hurricane]

Wow! A lot of venom being shared here. I find it interesting that those who want to be fantasy/Hollywood pirates would take such offense when those who are interested in the historical aspects of the subject point out errors in thought. Are the fantasy/Hollywood types feeling inferior somehow and venting anger because of it? That certainly isn't the intent.

Having traveled extensively to other lands, it has become very apparent that Americans are the least interested in history at any level. Americans are Revisionists; we love to rewrite World History to fit our own ethnocentrisms and remold it to be fact through the media - movies, TV shows and pop culture. And it seems to play out here in this forum just as it does in any large gathering. Go to a party sometime and ask those in attendance what their favorite subject was. Bet you won't find two hands go up when you ask if it was history.

And so that general disdain carries on here. We can't possibly allow the historians a chance to educate us. Instead, we take offense and either fire back at them or we simply dismiss their expertise with the famous "well there has to be an exception somewhere - history is open to interpretation or it's just plain wrong."

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that things aren't as presented on this forum. I appreciate the fact that these folks time and time again seek to educate us when all they do is get piddled on. I sometimes wonder why they just don't give up on all the venomous naysayers here.

My stuff is probably 50% accurate at this time. Until I stopped bashing these guys and actually started listening, I was maybe at 10%. Someday, I hope to be at 90% because I can still do everything I do as an entertainer/edutainer while being a bit more accurate. And oh, I was a great flamer for a long time until I actually started to pay attention, do my own research and try to improve my interpretation which was very heavily Hollywood influenced.

So perhaps you should take their counsel with an open mind. You may learn something.

And stop having such thin skins... not very damned piratical at all.

-- Hurricane

[callenish gunner]

there have been a lot of very good points here ....yes i see a lot of "pirates" who carry mass produced chinese junk blades ....but i see them as dangerous to those who think they are combat ready blades ...for so many of the faire folks they want to give an "image" not a reenactment of the period ... and that's fine as well since most faires peace-tie blades and forbid actual period firearms .... so $50 swords and

$35 replica guns are fyne for so many of the folks here and i can't blame them for that!!! for them it's a fun past time....but if they want to do reenactment then god is in the details ...such as no grommets on bodices or plastic buttons on waistcoats or synthetics or modern chemical dyes ....if we were all 100% authentic our kits would have to be heavily insured since our weapons would only be antiques and every stitch would be done by hand and washed by hand ....we would not be bathing daily or even weekly .....we would have scurvy or tuberculosis and realy bad dental health, vitamin deficiencies.... infections that would kills us from gunshot woulds or cutlass gashes or pike wounds ....faces poked from desease or tattooed from powder burns ....eyes missing or limbs gone ... rampant venereal deseases, dysentary, food poisioning, parasites of all sorts .....should i go on???

we live in an age where we can look back and try to recapture an era or spirit of when there were individuals who risked everything just to survive ....being caught as a pirate meant almost certain death ....and yes hollywood has done no service to history ...and to a large part neither has history done much for the truth ....what we have to research is sketchy at best from period drawings or engravings ....ignoring the places that these folks came from and local customs and local fashions it is assumed that every pirate had standard pirate issue clothing by some ...i personally think a lot was whatever they obtained from the booty they got from their prey ....some were wealthy and some were poor and everything in between ...there were some who had been sailors and some who had been farmers ....many who had turned to piracy because they were wanted men for other offenses..... some truned to it for greed and some out of nessessity .... there wasn't one set rule of dress or weapons it was a hodge-podge of what was available... from evey possible area and traded within the pirate community ....if one crew had powder and one had clothing don't you think there would have been some barter going on .....so there might be silks from the orient and wools from the heberdises wine from portugal and jewelry from the middle east... if it was transported by sea during the time it could have and probably would have been pirated and sold or traded

so historical or fantasy we all have our niches in the world of PYRACY today!!!! so rate things as to what they are and if it isn't your cup of tea just say as a reenactor "i" wouldn't choose an item for whatever reason but let those who choose otherwise do so ....or when do we start to police those members of the public who attend our events ....sorry there are times when i like the use of a modern sanitary facility even if i'm dressed in full authentic period kit

[greenighs]

....we would not be bathing daily or even weekly .....we would have scurvy or tuberculosis and realy bad dental health, vitamin deficiencies.... infections that would kills us from gunshot woulds or cutlass gashes or pike wounds ....faces poked from desease or tattooed from powder burns ....eyes missing or limbs gone ... rampant venereal deseases, dysentary, food poisioning, parasites of all sorts .....

That's EXACTLY how I picture Mr. Foxe!

Kidding, of course! I've peeked at your site, Foxe, and I've seen your kit, and you look pretty hale and hearty fer a man over 300 years old. I even like your sexy multi-colored thrummed cap!

p.s. How bad do I have to be before one of you sailors ties me to the mizzunmast?

[Pirate Petee]

People, people, people. We all need to just chill. There are a couple of things we need to take into concideration. First thing first is understand that everyones reality is relative. What someone digs is not what others dig, you dig? There is alot of grey area between both groups, some like the full authentic look, down to hand sewn button holes while others get costumes from a party store, and there are a lot in between. One thing that I know is that we are all here because we dig pirates. I do appreciate the the historical dudes that have helped me out, like black john, he helped me with my slops, and others that will remain nameless that helped me with my defense of the bucket boot. . My kit or kits I should say are pretty historicaly accurate, with a bit of artistic license, and thats cool for me. I have friends whose kits arn't as acurate and we go to faire and they some times get told so. And after getting told this awhile from different people, it gets old and they get pissed. Even if that wan't the persons intentions. I understand their side, as I also understand they people who really put a lot of effort into being accurate and seeing someone that went to party city and got a costume and people thought that they were a really cool lookin pirate. Any way we all need to easy up on each other a bit. And if I have ever offended anyone, with my joking, I am sorry, please belive me that was not my intentions. I just joke alot. Also please forgive the spelling I'm a bit high in spirits.

[greenighs]

I really was just kidding. The image Mr. Gunner put forth of true authenticity was just too tempting not to put to someone ....

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

First off, I don't have a "thin skin", I don't really give a crap what anyone thinks of me except the folks who pay me for my performances and those in the audience.

So far GOF, Foxe and others have all kept saying the same thing...that apparently the big issue they all have is that the subject line said "great pirate coat".

The ONLY reason I said anything at all to begin with, was becasue of the several posts prior to mine that started this whole thing. I have to disagree here Foxe, it seems to me that it IS the historical types that are always the ones starting this stuff. As soon as I see that starting, I admit I jump in with both feet. Why?...

Because IF the subject had said "Great historically accurate pirate coat" THEN even I would have agreed with everyone bashing the coat and poster. But the subject didn't say that. It just said "great pirate coat".

And to many, that's exactly what it is. I sure didn't see the post as trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. and if anyone went to the eBay site they would have seen the rest of the description that was quite clear.

And as I said before Foxe, if I offended you with the name it wasn't meant to. I do tend have a mouth like a ...well...sailor (of course I have sailed under the Royaliste and so I've learned from the best )

Anyway, yes this subject has been beaten to death. No, I don't think this is the last time it will come up.

[Fox]

I guess it's perspective.

What I have seen is "historical types" saying something isn't authentic (and I'm speaking in general, not specifically about a damned ebay coat - that has its own thread). I don't see that as bashing anyone's beliefs, just helping along those who share ours. It certainly isn't a personal affront is it?

I have never seen "historical types" (with one small and thankfully ended exception) bashing anyone else's belief. And I have never seen "historical types" whinging about people picking on them for their trying to be authentic.

I have seen "Hollywood types" reverting to personal attacks, trying to denigrate attempts to do things authentically (and again, I'm speaking generally, not about any individual recent thread), and whinging about how the authenti-crowd are always trying to put them down.

The question of whether the subject line should have been "Great pirate coat" or "Great historicaly accurate pirate coat" is a: off topic for this thread, and b: irrelevant. Technically you may be right, the coat didn't say it was historically accurate. However, in practice many many people see things from the other side of the fence, and assume that stuff is historically accurate until they are told otherwise. There's nothing wrong with making the distinction clear, whatever the tag-line says.

************************************************************

Back on topic.

Does this lack of dissension mean we have a temporary accord? Enough to try rating out and see how it works?

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Akkk....

My problem is that you have to widen the definition of pirate coat.... sooooo wide to make that a pirate coat that I don't think it belongs on this forum.

Goth coat? Yes

Halloween Costume coat? Yes

Coat to wear to S&M party? Yes.

Because if THAT is a pirate coat. Then this is too

and so is this

and this is a fireman's uniform

GoF