John_Young Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Women were BAD LUCK at sea, and any woman who wanted to go on a ship had to be either well protected or a slut who serviced the men on long voyages. Period. Check your history books. You, sir, should check the history books. If you can recall my post, I spoke of Grace O'Malley, a true historical female pirate figure. I suggest you visit your local library and look it up. I'm done with this subject now. No more will be said. Grace O'Malley who is by and large a mythological figure blown out of proportion by "history" you mean? I would suggest you read No Quarter Given's January 1996 issue where it discusses female pirates and that not everyone can be Anne Bonney and just how rare female pirates really are. "Yo Ho, all together hoist the colours high Heave Ho, theives and beggers Never shall we die..." "I don't care who ye say you are lad, if ye say 'savvy' one more time, I'll bury this cutlass in that thick skull of yers!" -Captain John Young - PILF
JoshuaRed Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Toss in the fact that girl-pirates have already been used as a gimmick for pirate flicks means you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to try and revisit that. My favorite Hollywood girl-pirate was Anne Bonney in The Spanish Main.
Patrick Hand Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 I'll still argue.... doing the Calico Jack, Anne Bonney, Mary Read "triangle"..... Ok the story could be "sappy"... but it has good potential.... enough to get people other than just us pyrates interested....... The guy that won an Oscar for "It's a wonderfull Life" (or something like that.....) said when he won...... "tell a good story..." A story about Grace O'Malley would be interesting..... but Jack, Bonney and Read are more well known as Pyrates, and have all the elements that movie goers would want..... Documentaries and movies are two different things..... Telling a "good" story...and yah.... with a lot of leberal non-authentic embelishmenst.... But within a good "gritty" period envoronment.... Hey it could work..........
Monterey Jack Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 Oh and PLEASE do not shy away in fear from touching upon slavery, tobacco, etc. Both very real and very vital parts of life back then. Though I suppose those words are like the kiss of death to investors. :) By and large remember that 90% of pirates were the type of criminal who be robbing 7-11's today, not high-profile heists. Just finished reading the historical account of the Speedwell (1712) and its privateering commission around to the pacific coast of South America. She and he sister ship Success, took about ten ships in all, soetimes swiping them while they were at anchor. Every time it was flour, sugar, tobacco, wine,fish and occasionbally some coin to pay off a garrison. They even went so far as to steal a ship full of bird manure. Turned a tidy profit when they discovered it was needed for fertilzer at the plantations. That's what your average pirate ends up taking. Doesn't make for great adventure, but certainly means you have to depend on character development. As for women.....there was a comment about Deadwood awhile back. Calamity Jane would've been a great pirate. Otherwise lose the makeup, the nice gowns, the educated vocabulary....and you'd have a better approximation of the rougher side GAoP women. Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........."
Patrick Hand Posted February 11, 2006 Posted February 11, 2006 They even went so far as to steal a ship full of bird manure. Turned a tidy profit when they discovered it was needed for fertilzer at the plantations. Hey.................... sh*t happens........ Sorry couldn't help meself wit that one.................
Monterey Jack Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 They even went so far as to steal a ship full of bird manure. Turned a tidy profit when they discovered it was needed for fertilzer at the plantations. Hey.................... sh*t happens........ Sorry couldn't help meself wit that one................. Hey, if you're guano continue with the jokes, I'm outta here! Monterey Jack "yes I am a pirate 200 years too late, the cannons don't thunder, there's nothin to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate, arrivin too late.........."
dasNdanger Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 First - what's in it for us?? I canNOT believe that all these piratey sorts here just spilled their bloody guts without promise of compensation!!! Makin' it a bit easy fer ye, now, aren't they?? Sheesh - next they'll be tellin' ye where the gold is... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/
JoshuaRed Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Calamity Jane would've been a great pirate. Now THAT is damn true!! That is one of the all-time best roles I've EVER seen in film or tv. I tell ya, any pirate movie would really benefit from casting Robin Weigert and/or Ian McShane...those two are STELLAR. Just a sheer joy to watch. Every sentence out of their mouths is pure dramatic gold. Ultimately the MOST important thing a pirate movie should have is the integrity to history that Deadwood has. (yes, I KNOW Deadwood changed some events & the sequence in which they happened, but I'm talking about the overall effect) Would it slump at the box office? Heck no - Deadwood is quickly chasing down Sopranos to become the most popular show ever for HBO, based almost solely on fan word-of-mouth. See as cool as Master & Commander was, and as much as all us salts love it, it didn't reach out and grab you the way Deadwood does. Make a movie with characters and dialogue as compelling as Deadwood with the production sensibilities of M&C and you'll have a winner.
Bilgemunky Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Makin' it a bit easy fer ye, aren't they?? Sheesh - next thing ya know, they'll be tellin' ye where the gold is... Oh sure - everyone's spelled out a true recipe for box office success.... MORE lady pirates, FEWER lady pirates... and don't forget the slaves and the humor (the two go SO well together.) Hey, how about an absolutely truly historical account of a day in a pirate's life? Call it "The Doldrums" and just film some half starved skallywagg grousin' about how thirsty he is for two or so hours while mending sails. Make sure he's not wearing bucket boots, cuz that's just blasphemous. I AM BILGEMUNKY
JoshuaRed Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 I'd stand in line to see such a thing! You know what movie struck a surprisingly nice balance between gritty reality and hollywood? Polanski's "Pirates" with Walter Mathau. The story isn't very good but it isn't afraid to linger on quiet, slow periods where you can savor Capn' Red's dialogue, nor is it afraid to make dirty, violent situations humorous. :)
callenish gunner Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 just watched that one again this eve .... it is definately gritty and has some good bits too ....and yes the story could have been a bit more developed ....but it was entertaining ....also watched robert newton's blackbeard today ....gritty and with some modern production values and some good writing to make it more historically accurate would make a damned good tale
JoshuaRed Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Yeah in my house we LOVE watching Newton's Blackbeard. He's so greasy and conniving! I walk around all the time singing "liTTle Johnny MILLER...somethingsomethingsomething...ho-ho-hoho...he-he-hehee"
Patrick Hand Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Polanski's "Pirates" with Walter Mathau. OK... that was kinda fun.....nawh the truth......... well Heck IT SUCKED............I just remember them at the end of the movie sitting on the chain........ didn't work fer me....... I wanna see a Pyrate movie with some action... gun fights... sword fights .... blood... and heck if you can fit it in a bit of a story..............
Rumba Rue Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Something all of you seem to have overlooked. There were many Asian women who were pirates! So perhaps touching on that would be interesting in the fact that they weren't your run of the norm type pirate. They were very ruthless.
John_Young Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Funny how most "historical" women don't try and portray them. However I doubt they were all Lucy Liu, Kung Fu chicks... "Yo Ho, all together hoist the colours high Heave Ho, theives and beggers Never shall we die..." "I don't care who ye say you are lad, if ye say 'savvy' one more time, I'll bury this cutlass in that thick skull of yers!" -Captain John Young - PILF
BILLY BONES Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Anything about Roberts could calso be good. Do you have a propmaster? I am one, and would be very interested!!! Capt. William Bones Then he rapped on the door with a bit of stick like a handspike that he carried, and when my father appeared, called roughly for a glass of rum. This, when it was brought to him, he drank slowly, like a connoisseur, lingering on the taste, and still looking about him at the cliffs and up at our signboard. "This is a handy cove," says he, at length; " and a pleasant sittyated grog-shop. Much company, mate?" My father told him no, very little company, the more was the pity. "Well, then," said he, "this is the berth for me." Proprietor of Flags of Fortune.
Mr_Scabbs Posted February 25, 2006 Posted February 25, 2006 How about crackwhore mermaids? http://www.seabeaver.net/crackwhore.htm "I like nachos. Mermaid nachos." The Seabeaver - Official Website Facebook MySpace Twitter * * * * * * * *
Rumba Rue Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 LMAF!!!! Thanks Mr. Scabbs. that was hysterical! But then I have twisted sense of humor anyway.
Fox Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 The gritty-authentic-realism vs. pansy "entertainment" argument kinda depends on what your long term goal is. PotC doubtless made more money at the box office, but I'd be prepared to bet that Master and Commander will still be being hailed as a great film when PotC has been eclipsed by half a dozen more pirate films. Women in the GAoP: Sure, they weren't all pretty young things with Roedean accents and silk dresses, but neither were they all toothless whores in shit-stained burlap. Were they widely considered bad luck at sea during the GAoP? The evidence is lacking, and if they were then how does one explain the hundreds of women who were at sea? Of course, only two out of those hundreds were Bonny and Read. any woman who wanted to go on a ship had to be either well protected or a slut who serviced the men on long voyages. Period. Check your history books. What utter twaddle! Grace O'Malley who is by and large a mythological figure blown out of proportion by "history" you mean? I'm intrigued as to why you say that? I agree 100% that female pirates made up a statistically insignificant minority of "Western" pirates (like, 4-5 tops), but that doesn't mean that women didn't play important and interesting parts in sea-life generally during the GAoP. On historical vs. fantasy in films: A guy is serving his country as a privateer, but just as it seems his nation might have a chance of defeating one of the world's superpowers a new ruler makes peace, leaving our hero unemployed. Not impressed with the peace or the new regime he turns to piracy. He captures a number of ships belonging to his own country, takes all the crews prisoner, shaves their heads and forces them into slavery. He then captures a small island and forces his army of slaves to build fortifications. He declares himself King of the island, in defiance to the new king of England, and executes anyone who refuses to acknowledge him as such. The navy get together an expedition to retake the island, but are prevented by contrary weather. Meanwhile one of the slaves leads a revolt, frees the other slaves, and drives the pirates from the island. Our hero flees and joins up with the greatest pirate of the age, but the two men disagree and the great pirate ends up throwing the hero overboard. In a nutshell, that's the true story of Thomas Salkeld. The day Hollywood comes up with a better plot line than that is the day Jon Lovitz gets voted sexiest man in the Universe. For believable yet atmospheric pirate background I maintain that Charlton Heston's Treasure Island is unsurpassed. The movie is let down in some areas (the fight scenes aren't great f/e), but the feeling of the film is great. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
JoshuaRed Posted February 26, 2006 Posted February 26, 2006 Charlton Heston's Treasure Island is unsurpassed Arrmen to that, aye!!
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