Pirate coat at E-bay

[piratescave]

E-bay

Ahoy pirates! Just check this coat I found on E-bay. It's great! For pirates and wenches (size S or M)!

[blackjohn]

Uhhhh... pirate coat, where? This thing is purely fantasy and I am half-tempted to delete this message. *sigh* (looks down at tied hands)

However, as a fantasy coat, I'll agree, it is kinda cool.

[Bilgemunky]

BlackJohn,

Historical ain't the only piracy, mate. You're quite right, that coat is about as historical as a palm pilot. But it clearly spawns from pirate influences.

[blackjohn]

I don't see the pirate influences. I must need more rum!

Again, it is cool for what it is... a multi-purpose fantasy coat, based loosely on... well, the cut looks vaguely early 19th century to me, or maybe very late 18th.

Yeah, I need more rum.

[Syera]

Whatever it is, it definitely is beautiful. Ah, but that I had the money to spend on that... and a place to wear it!

[Duchess]

I don't see the pirate influences. I must need more rum!

Again, it is cool for what it is... a multi-purpose fantasy coat, based loosely on... well, the cut looks vaguely early 19th century to me, or maybe very late 18th.

Yeah, I need more rum.

and squinting. Don't forget that.

[Rumba Rue]

There are some people here that go to the sci-fi cons selling those as pirate coats. They are not, they are very Victorian, quite a different era from the Golden Age of Piracy.

[Monterey Jack]

Okay, I know I just mentioned this one on another post, but since todays theme seems to be coats, go to ebay and check Long Leather Renaisnace Medieval Pirate Coat. Its my old one, it'd pre-Elizabethan and real comfortable.

Last of the shameless plugs for today!

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

Seems to me all the historical wankers are getting a bit hysterical again.

Common' folks. No where in the eBay ad does it say ANYTHING about historical or even Golden age of pyracy or ANYTHING remotely close.

It even states it would be good for wearing out to CLUBS for cripes sake.

Besides, we have several pirate ladies that wear coats made by this person in Tales of the Seven Seas.

Maybe we should kick them out! Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to be seen outside in one! FOR SHAME! Oh the humanity!

[HarborMaster]

Agreed Ace.,I have that same coat only Kristi did a custom for me and made the sleeves from elbow down to cuff bigger., and added some large cuffs to it., as well as brass buttons. We copied the cuff pattern from that of the swordsman at the end of RobRoy.

I Like the coat alot and with lots of other items to go with it., a shirt.,a tricorn (non historically correct leather Tricorn ) and my boots (non historically correct Champion Attitude Swashbuckler Boots) most of the woman find it a dashing outfit and ask to get a photo at the faires. I like that.

Only the thread counters will be on your arse about it. I for one do it for me., not for thread counters.

I have fun and dont care.

I dont play well with thee other children and am not popular with them. tsk.,tsk., I therefore do not play in their world I play in mine.

piratescave .,if you want that coat., you get it. You're welcome to wear it around me anytime.

[Swifty Morgan]

Aye Ace I also Have the same coat but unlike HM I don't have the big Cuffs. I am also in it for me and no one else. I think thread counters Suck. There is no damn reason to put any one down.

I have yet to meet an authentic 17th Century Man. THERE ALL DEAD!!!

How many suposed reenactors are running around with cell phones and digi cams ? Are those PC too ?

We have a few etching's from the late 16th and 17th century showing a few pieces of clothing., I wonder if those show all that was available in the world and that if ALL the tailors in all of europe follwed the same pattern? I doubt it? So if something did exist., who would know it?., And if something was worn that couldnt be proven or wasnt an everyday english piece., you better watch out cause the thread counters'll getcha.

I'd sure hate to spend my time havin ta chase down and educate all the people just trying to participate in the fun. Imagine how that would suck having to rain on people., bummer.

Check out the Avatar oh and stop by my personel profile and there I am wearing the same coat. Also Let's not forget the leather tricorn as well. (Not period)

I am wearing that same coat.

Swifty

[piratescave]

I totally agree with you all. I like pirate style and those army look jackets. Why not wear them, in normal life.

My sister will make me a historically accurate pirate coat (but in yellow, my favourite colour) but I will also wear fantasy coats and other fashion. I just love wear something different than the rest does.

The coats of Kristi Smart are very beautiful, historically accurate or not. I just love the style!

And lady Pirate also! So, this is not only me!

But for those pirates, who wear only historically accurate stuff, have fun and enjoy!

[Fox]

Three observations:

Firstly, despite what the majority of people here seem to think there are people who want to get it right. It doesn't make us "wankers". When something is advertised as something it isn't (whether it be pirate clothing, good films, a car, whatever) it behoves those of us in the know to point out to those of us not in the know the difference. I am positive that had the original advert said "Fantasy pirate coat", or "Ren-faire pirate coat" then neither John nor anyone else would have said a thing. However, it is clearly advertised as something that it is not, so John was quite right to point that out. It doesn't stop it being a nice coat, and it doesn't stop anyone buying it and wearing it at whatever events they go to, but for those who care it IS important to know that it's not accurate for early 18th century.

Secondly, "fantasy" pirates or whatever you prefer to call yourselves, calm down and for chrissakes take that chip off your shoulders. I see four lines about the damn coat not being historically accurate, and Thirty-two lines of you guys defending yourselves! Does that not seem a little excessive to you? And you say John is getting hysterical?! All John did was say that the coat isn't accurate (and what a nice coat it is regardless), and Rumba pointed out the true origins, and you've turned this into an attack on the people who want to do it right.

I object to being called a thread counter, and I REALLY object to being called a wanker, just because historical integrity is more important to me than looking like Jack Sparrow. Grow up, stop feeling so persecuted, we're well aware that not everyone wants to be historically accurate, but that shouldn't stop us helping those that do... Oh, I'm sorry, apparently it should.

HarbourMaster, you wrote "Only the thread counters will be on your arse about it.". Would you be kind enough to show me precisely where anyone is knocking what you do, the way you do it, or generally getting "on your arse"?

Swifty, you wrote "I think thread counters Suck. There is no damn reason to put any one down." Let me get this straight, people pointing out that something is not authentic is putting someone down, but calling them names and saying they suck isn't? Is that right? I'm a little confused here... If I'm wrong, can you please point out to me where anyone is putting you or your ways down.

Piratescave, you wrote "But for those pirates, who wear only historically accurate stuff, have fun and enjoy!" THAT'S the attitude! Woooo, go Europeans!

Thirdly, has anyone else noticed that someone called "piratescave" just "found" a coat on ebay from a company whose website is www.pirates-cave.com? Hmmm.

********************************************************

Now, for goodness sake children, play nice or Nanny will take away your little swords and guns and you shan't have them back for the rest of the week. Ace of HB, apologise this INSTANT for the rude names you called people.

[hurricane]

Aye Ace I also Have the same coat but unlike HM I don't have the big Cuffs. I am also in it for me and no one else. I think thread counters Suck. There is no damn reason to put any one down.

I have yet to meet an authentic 17th Century Man. THERE ALL DEAD!!!

How many suposed reenactors are running around with cell phones and digi cams ? Are those PC too ?

We have a few etching's from the late 16th and 17th century showing a few pieces of clothing., I wonder if those show all that was available in the world and that if ALL the tailors in all of europe follwed the same pattern? I doubt it? So if something did exist., who would know it?., And if something was worn that couldnt be proven or wasnt an everyday english piece., you better watch out cause the thread counters'll getcha.

I'd sure hate to spend my time havin ta chase down and educate all the people just trying to participate in the fun. Imagine how that would suck having to rain on people., bummer.

Check out the Avatar oh and stop by my personel profile and there I am wearing the same coat. Also Let's not forget the leather tricorn as well. (Not period)

I am wearing that same coat.

Swifty

I think the point was missed here. No one here has ever berated someone else for pursuing fantasy or Hollywood pirates. But if someone is new to these boards and looking to get into something that is a little more historically correct, then it needs to be said how that piece fits into the genre. I play both sides - fantasy and historical - and like them each equally. But it would be unfair to someone here to say, "hey, that's a great pirate coat" and have them purchase it thinking it is indeed something pirates wore or even could have worn. The coats of the period are very well documented - look at the photos of our own founding fathers and their predecessors.

But that's not the point. I think the historians here are just trying to guide newbies on what is appropriate historical gear and what is great party pirate attire. I used to pick on them all the time until I began to educate myself and doing research. And then I began to understand where they are coming from. They don't berate - they educate.

My own mate has one of Kristi's coats as well. And she loves it. There has not been a single time that she's worn it that she hasn't been innundated with photo requests and questions about it. But she knows that it is not period - it is fantasy. Hence the education here.

It's important to know the difference and make informed choices about what you want to pursue as a pirate or wench.

-- Hurricane

[Pirate Petee]

I concur. I'm not sure what period this coat is from and if it is accurate, but weren’t there pirates from all different time periods, we have pirates now and in one picture one has on a denim jacket, so could we call jean jackets, pirate jackets? It should of said not a GAoP coat.

[Monterey Jack]

I still walk the line a lot in this field; I want to be historically accurate, and am for much of my gear, but sometimes....

Well, take for instance my coat and hat: 1750 officers coat and tricorne. Accurate in design, but made out of leather. Why? partly because I work in leather on a daily basis and have it readily available. I do try and used the aged stuff to give it an historic appearance, and I've had many many people come into the shop and want to know where I got the antique coat. Its all hand sewn using a hand-waxed linen thread; i don't own a machine and probably never will.

Now, occasionally I catch flack for it from those in the know. My reasoning is that A) Its a historically correct pattern available at the time. B)Its entirely made from materials available at the time. C) Its made in a manner consistent with how items were made at the time.

The only stumbling block is that its not documentable in any texts, though there are documented leather waistcoats from about the late 1600s early 1700s....though rare.

Now, do we stick strictly to textbook examples or do we extrapolate based on what we know was available and was was possible even though no one took the time to write it down?

Same holds true of my baldrick / sword frog. I have one for the custom 1690s hanger and dirk that is accurate for America in 1700, and I have one set made of (backed with) smoke tanned south american boa for the caribbean stuff. Perfectly period, available materials, but undocumented.

I don't see the reason to draw so harsh a line and so far I haven't been in any brawls with the on-site historians

[hurricane]

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of education, particularly about a subject that is of interest to us all. I'm not sure why people are getting so uppity about it. If you're not interested in the historical aspects of the subject, move on. Ignore the posts by those who do care. They're not trying to take away your fun or degrade you. I should know. I used to be one of the original rabble rousers around here and have had more than my share of posts taking it to the historians. But then I found out I could learn a lot. So I quite firing broadsides and listened and learned. And I came to appreciate the vast resources these people have here - stuff that would be nearly impossible to find on the net or in the library... so let's all move on. No one is trying to diss anyone else in noting that a particular coat isn't period to the Golden Age or the Buccaneer age.

-- Hurricane

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

Hey Foxe, as you said, don't take it so personally.

It's a two way street mate. I even put a little laughy guy after it so no one would think I was serious. Sorry if I offended. However, I HAVE been berated, time and again by people here. It always starts this way.

Now, did you actually read the eBay post?

Where did it claim to be acurate? I tried to point that out. Then hear comes everybody stating that there's "nothing wrong with being historical" or "persuing education". WHO said there was?

The point is, that IMMEDIATELY people were posting about removing the post because it was claiming to be something it wasn't.

Apparently those who want to be so accurate about some things have decided NOT to be accurate about others. Such as the heading on the eBay post that says:

Firefly Pirate Vampire Frock Coat Black Denim

How could ANYONE mistake that for anything other than what it is?

I enjoy reading all the posts from the historical types, it educational.

But jumping all over a post for no reason? I am not being defensive, I'm not selling the thing. And I don't give a RATS ass what anyone thinks about me. I have to put up with that crap at every single event I go to in my COSTUME (that IS what it is ya know).

Some people take this stuff WAY too seriously.

Jeesh.

[HarborMaster]

Ahhhh., so many arguements and so little time....................,

Hurricanes Post

There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of education, particularly about a subject that is of interest to us all.

Well said I must agree.

Pirate Petees Post

I concur. I'm not sure what period this coat is from and if it is accurate, but weren’t there pirates from all different time periods, we have pirates now and in one picture one has on a denim jacket, so could we call jean jackets, pirate jackets?  It should of said not a GAoP coat. 

I have to agree with this post. For me What is a Pirate Coat? Is there such an animal which represents time as a whole.., you have to consider what was the first pirate wearing?., and who was he?., He was the person who tried to take from the person who made the first thing that floated. So if I wear a robe and portrayed a time before Noah would that be accurate? and would people consider me a pirate?

Piracy for me spans a whole lot more than the very narrow time frame of the GAoP. Even a Justaucorps is to new for the GAoP. I like the Justaucorps coat however its not GAoP. But many like the coat for "Pirate".

The movie RobRoy was more in that GAoP time frame.,but I am not seeing people dressed as fancy as the swordsman., and personally I liked his coats ALOT. I would rather dress in his attire than that of a peasant. Then there is a matter of money and wealth., those coats were alot differant then peasant coats. Those coats also varied greatly from tailor to tailor and country to country. I am sure that the majority of paintings were more of nobility. Not many peasants were funding paintings for their own vanity., nor did they have the means to preserve them for future generations. Who knows what riches in the world have been lost this way. Many things I am sure are undocumented.

I am from Spanish blood I have many photos of the paintings in Spains castles of their kings., the coats varied from England France The Dutch and middle eastern of the same period. So did their hats and yes they wore a cocked hat as well. Here is a favorite painting of mine (I like the coat) Ferdinand VI . Note the pockets are differant and so are other things compared to others vision of the same era.

I am interested in fun more than anything else. For example my cannon collection at 11 now.,not including the 4 new Bronze barrels I just commisioned for our vessel (These are a matched set) are all of differant time frames., they were chosen due to weight ., shipping and resort placement., I had to do this according to my own budget. It would be much more dificult and expensive to try to stay to one exact time while commissioning machinists to build them. I find poeple who build certain cannons and then have them adusted to suit my needs.

HarbourMaster, you wrote "Only the thread counters will be on your arse about it.". Would you be kind enough to show me precisely where anyone is knocking what you do, the way you do it, or generally getting "on your arse"?

To answer this ., please take no offense. My learning of the words "Thread Counter" first became a phrase to me on this forum "The Pyracy Pub" as well as the term Period Nazi. Now with that said it means more than anything else to me ., An SCA event in which GAoP is far to new and futuristic to attend., and from them being flamed for even being at the event. Now do to an upsurge of pirate or if you will fantasy .,,Hollywood pirate interests., SCA is welcoming them more and more., probably due to economics., ie., the SCA sold itself to money . And the money helps popularize and build bigger and more event parks.

Personally I am all for that., otherwise I would have no where to go.

So is anyone on my arse about wearing the wrong thing., no. They cant be., Its a frame of mind., My frame of mind., I control me., no-one else controls me., therefore if I hear something like that directed at me., my first reaction is to simply tell them to "Blow"

See we all have our own reasons for doing what we do.,so for someone .,for example myself to tell someone what time it is., simply is not my place. So when it happens to me., I consider it an intrusion on my being and I stop it right there from ruining my good time. I dont want to offend anyone., I will just shut down the intrusion into my space.

Here is a fine example of 3 people at the Washington Ren faire with Kristi's coat with my wife and her cousin Annabelle. Notice the man in the Yellow shirt. He is 6'6" .,I am but a humble little pirate of 5'8" stature. I am not going to give him a hard time about his attire., I am not going to raze his krewe either. (Please note Champion Attitude boots worn by the man on the right) Just like mine. These guys had a lot of fun.,We enjoyed their company.

I am not aware of this forum being the GAoP Board? I believe its "the pyracy pub" thats it.

I have Foxes website bookmarked., I consider it one of the best on the web., I consider GoF's the same in quality and content., Also I do not know Ace personally but have his bookmarked as well., I find Ace to be an awesome characture. He deals with children as does the krewes he is associated with., Tales of the Seven Seas and the Royaliste. Ace is an excellant entertainer., and can sing.,walk a tight rope., perform magic tricks ride a unicycle., and many other things., I wish I had 1/2 his talent., I respect his ALOT. (Any man that can stand his own and take shots from the Lady Washington and still stand is definitely worth his salt) Cheers to ye Ace

I just want to have a little fun before I die., thats what Tropico is about for me. There are no GAoP re-enactments that I am aware of., at least not in my nieghborhood.

I have to build my own little world., so...., infact I am. On the Far side of the world in fact. Its about 9"24.12N and 123"14.06 E There people who want to scuba dive in tropical waters and chase the whale shark., fire cannons., and play anykind of pirate they want to can come and have a little fun. No Rules other than being legally correct and polite to others.

So we gotta play what we can where we can .,when we can., closest thing that I am aware of would be St.Augustine Florida. If I were to get into something for exacting accuracy., I would have to move.

I would gear up and take orders from a Rev-War group., after all its nice to be on the winning team. Its about the closest thing I can find to what I like., I dont even know if there is a re-enactment for the French Indian Wars., if so I would like that even better., but for one weekend a year I wouldnt trade my dreams and goals for anything in the world.

[blackjohn]

Now comes the part where I, as one of the moderators, and in this case the one who caused all the trouble, get to have my say.

It's like this...

I look at the title of the topic "Pirate coat at E-bay" with the follow-up "Great pirate coat."

Next I think about the description of PLUNDER, "Pyrate and nautical related stuff to outfit your salty lifestlye. Where to get it, how to make it, and all about it. You're welcome to post FOR SALE/TRADE and WANTED ads here. You can also link to your ebay auction, so long as you start the title with "ebay:""

Then, I think about the people this list caters to, "We are an online community hub for all ye pirates across the seven seas. Whether you're wanting the goods on pirate festivals and renaissance faires, pirate bands, sea shanties, pirates in movies, books and video games, pirate collectibles, maritime history, research, pirate-themed bars & restaurants, stellar rum and cocktail recipes, seafaring, boating, yachting, scuba, travel destinations, or just want to discuss this intriguing topic & share information, Pyracy.com is your port-hole into the golden age of piracy and our modern fascination with it!"

Finally, since I'm supposed to be moderate, I try to put aside my personal bias. Thus, I ask myself is this item:

what it says it is?

is it pirate or nautical related?

or an ebay auction?

In this case, my answers are:

no, it is not a pirate coat;

no, it is not nautical;

yes, it is an ebay auction.

So in my mind, it gets to stay. My hands are tied because it is an ebay auction and no other place here is designated for ebay auctions. In this case I decided, as a service to those who may actually be interested in knowing that this is not really a pirate coat, place a few friendly words of advice as a caveat emptor.

[~Lady Pirate~]

It is interesting to read posts by both ''sides''. I think many take it too seriously. It's just a coat. Let those who like the look of it talk about it and enjoy it. Even if it isn't historically accurate, it's a beautiful coat and to most, that's all that matters. Just because you buy a pirate coat doesn't mean you're going to wear it to a festival or whatever. Some just wear it in normal life. If you buy a costume for a festival, it's different. It has to look authentic.

Yet I have seen many re-enactors look absolutely ridiculous (Romans using fabrics that weren't accurate and looked fake, etc). The audience often knows nothing of history. As a Napoleonic re-enactor, I have been approached several times by people telling their kids: "Look, it's people from the medieval period!" Or: ''Servants!'' Considering we are civilians (and rich ones at that), it's shocking people are so ignorant of these things.

It is difficult to define what is a good and accurate pirate coat. As said, pirates existed for quite a while and all around the world. I'm pretty sure they all had their own style. I like the fact that re-enactors too have their own style. It would be boring if we all looked the same. As long as there aren't people out there wearing sneekers, I won't complain. The Victorian period might not be a typical pirate period, but that's their loss, I'd say. Wouldn't they look great if they wore coats like the ones sold by Kristi Smart?

Anyway, those who complain about the coats not being historically accurate have a right to voice their opinion and ''educate'' us. But they should also realise that in the end, all that matters is whether we like the coat or not. It's our choice to buy it or not. I do think it's best not to wear it to an event, but it's not fair to lecture people or mention deleting the thread just because it doesn't appeal to you. I don't like the typical pirate look. I admit that. I might not look historically accurate, but I'm having a blast. Having fun is the most important thing. At home anyway. Not everyone likes the pirate stuff you ''historians'' consider accurate. So what? Let us do our thing and we'll let you do yours.

By the way, Pirates Cave don't sell coats on E-bay. The website of the seller was listed in the about me section: kristismart.com. We don't even own Kristi's coats so we sure wouldn't be able to sell them. But we Europeans do rule.

[lorien_stormfeather]

I refuse to enter the fray except for two comments:

1. there is certainly a time and a place for many styles of pirates. The more the merrier. When WORKING AS PART OF THE ENTERTAINMENT OR GATE LISTED at an event or Faire, I do my best to ensure make my garb fits within the time period of the event. When ATTENDING AN EVENT AS A PAYING MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, I wear what I choose.

2. My own personal beef is with merchants (on-line or elsewhere) who advertise something as being "historically accurate" or of a particular date when it is not. Buyer beware. Some take it upon themselves to assume that everything sold at events is historical. I've never heard Kristi say her coats were accurate- they are for fun. And she makes a nice product.

Ahoy Dearest Harbormaster and special greetings any other lonely pirate denizens of the Pacific Northwest!

You don't have to leave our cozy little corner to try a bit of historical re-enacting. Some of us with an interest in portraying period correct pirates, either Elizabethan (when at an Elizabethan Faire), or GAoP when we do our own raids are gathering together as a new guild (un-named as yet) for this season.

Let me know if you'd like to join in...

The "Pirates of Portlandia" also do "pub raids" in the Portland, Oregon area and Gig Harbor (Washington Ren FANTASY Faire at Gig Harbor) in our fantasy rigs!

[Pirate Petee]

True this was a bit of false advertising. But I am dying to see what a Firefly pirate vampire is.

[lorien_stormfeather]

I've caught one in a jar...

I'll let ye look it, and sell it to ye if'n ye wish.

Just follow me, down this hatch, that's right, come below...

Oh dear, the lamp blew out!

*CRAaaaaaaCCCkkkk!*

Got another one to man the sweeps boys!

[Pirate Petee]

Damn sweeps.

I guess I'll know when I see someone at fair wear one. "Look there’s the ever elusive Firefly Pirate Vampire.”

No offense to anyone who has one, just jokes.