Tall Paul Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I am afraid that what you see is what you get on that site. I suppose that you could try a few googles and se if anyone has transcribed it. If you have any luck please let me know. Paul Cpt "Tall Paul" Adams Colchester Historical Enactment Society (C.H.E.S.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Found this today and thought it might be of interest. Admiral William Monson writing in the early 17thC about Spanish rations aboard their galleys. Every soldier in a ship or galley has a pound and half of bread allowed him every day.Of fresh beef three quarters of a pound and an ounce. A wine quart of wine a day, and a pottle of water. The slaves every day half an ounce of oil, two ounces of rice, beans or garbanzos*; one of these three. They have six meals of flesh in a year, two at Christmas, two at Shrovetide, and two at Easter. The Master. boatswain, corporal, gaoler, purser, oar-maker, and caulker have double the soldier's allowance a day. The barber [ie. surgeon], two gunners, and boatswain's mates have but one allowance and a half a day. [There then follows a bit about wages which I'm too lazy to type in.] A pilot has four allowances and fifty shillings a month. A captain is allowed five pounds a month and two allowances. A General [ie. admiral] twenty-five pounds a month, and but one allowance. There are allowed in every galley two slaves to row in the boat to shore, who have one allowance a day betwixt them both. *A kind of very large bean. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Something that I forgot to put in my previous post, that has been worrying me, is that so far, I have found no reference to sailors setting lines or nets in order to catch fish. it seems unlikely that such an obvious source of protein would be left un-tapped.Perhaps it was so common that no-one thought that it was worth mentioning at the time, or perhaps modern authors don't think that caught fish is relevant to an essay about Naval provisions. or maybe I just haven't read the right book yet. But the closest I can remember seeing is an account of pirates robbing a fishing boat and taking the catch as part of their bounty. Can anyone think of an account of mariners supplementing their diet with fish? Just for you Paul, from John Josselyn's "Account of Two Voyages to New England", pub. 1673. (The voyages were made in 1638 and 1663) [in the Downs] we had good store of Flounder from the Fishermen, new taken out of the sea and living, which being readily gutted, were fry'd while they were warm; me thoughts I never tasted a delicater Fish in all my life before.Later ...we were becalmed from 7 o'clock of the morning, till 12 of the clock at noon, where we took a good store of Whitings, and half a score of Gurnets... Later, off Scilly In the afternoon the Mariners struck a Porpisce, called also a Marsovius or sea-hogg, with an harping iron and hoisted her aboard, they cut some into thin pieces, and fryed... The Thirteenth day we took a sharke, a great one, and hoisted him aboard with his two companions... The Seamen divided the shark into quarters... and after they had cooked him, he proved very rough Grain'd not worthy of wholesome preferment. etcetera Nets would slow the ship down, so unless it was specifically a fishing vessel I suspect nets were quite unlikely, but as we can see there was no problem catching fish (or buying it from passing fishermen). A little later Josselyn goes on to talk about typical rations of a merchantman: The Common Proportion of Victuals for the Sea to a mess, being 4 men, is as followeth:Two pieces of beef, of 3 pound a 1/4 per piece. Four pound of Bread. One Pint 1/2 of Pease. Four gallons of Bear, with Mustard and Vinegar for three flesh dayes in the week. For four fish days, to each mess per day Two pieces of Codd or Habberdine, making three pieces of a fish. One quarter of a pound of Butter. Four pound of Bread. Three Quarters of a pound of Cheese. Bear as before. Oatmeal per day, for 50 men, gallon 1. and so proportionable for more or fewer. Thus you see the ship's provision is Beefe, or Porke, Fish, Buter, Cheese, Pease, Pottage, Water-gruel, Bisket, and six shilling Bear. For fresh provisions you [ie. the individual] may carry with you... Burnt-Wine, English Spirits. Prunes to stew, Raisons of the Sun, Currence, Sugar, Nutmeg, Mace, Cinnamon, Pepper, and Ginger, White Bisket or Spanish Rusk, Eggs, Rice, juice of Lemmons well put up to cure, or prevent the Scurvy. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 I hope other people are still reading this after all this typing... Today I came across 1671 RN rations and thought I would post it - it's pretty detailed, and more in period that the other rations listed so far. Then I found this set from 1701... The daily allowance:One pound avoirdupois of good sound, clean, well bolted with a horse cloth, well baked, and well conditioned wheaten biscuit. One gallon wine-measure of good wholesome warrantable beer, of such standard as that every guile of twenty tons of irojn bound beer shall be brewed with 20 quarters of very good malt, as good as general to be had where the beer is brewed, and enough of very good hops to keep the same for the time of its warranty; and 18 quarters of the like malt, with the like quantity of the like sort of hops, to every guile of twenty tons of wood-bound beer (to be good, sound, wholesome, and strong enough, for the use of his Majesty's ships in petty warrant victualling). Two pounds of beef, killed and made up with salt in England, of a well fed ox, weighing not less than 5 hudredweight, if killed for sea victuals in the Port of London, or 4 1/2 cwt. from other ports in England. The salt beef to be for two of the four days, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday; but for the other two of these four days, one pound of bacon or salted English pork, of a well fed hog weighing not less than 3/4 cwt., and a pint of peas, Winchester measure. for Wednesday, Friday and Saturday - besides the biscuit and beer - an eighth part of a full sized North Sea cod 24 inches long or a sixth part of a haberdine 22 inches long or a pound of well saved Poor John, together with two ounces of butter and four ounces of Suffolk cheese (or two-thirds that quantity of Cheshire cheese). And whereas you are, by former instructions, to deliver clean and well dressed oatmeal in lieu of sized fish (where the Principal Officers and Commissioners of the Navy shall direct your so doing), you are at liberty to pursue this practice (which hath been of long standing in the Navy) where you shall judge it may be for the Service, unless the contrary shall be ordered by the Admiralty or Navy Board. The foregoing scale is both for harbour and at sea, except that in harbour, bread in loaves and fresh meat with salt to corn it are to be provided in lieu of biscuit and salt beef or pork. The scale for ships south of latitude 39degrees N. may be modified as follows (by order of the Admiralty or Navy Board): Rusk in lieu of biscuit. Half a pint of brandy in lieu of beer, for at least half the amount of beer on board; or "beverage" wine, but only in case of necessity, as it is less wholesome than beer. And in the West Indies, where brandy is seldom to be had, and where if has for many years been customary to furnish 3/4 of a pint of rum and 1/4 of a pound of sugar a man a day, instead of 1/2 a pint of brandy or a gallon of beer - this custom is to continue. Three pounds of flour, and either a pound of raisins or half a pound of currants or half a pound of pickled beef suet, in lieu of a piece of beef or pork and peas. Four pounds of Milan rice or two stockfish (at least 16 inches long) in lieu of a sized fish. A pint of sweet olive oil in lieu of a pound of butter or two pounds of Suffolk cheese. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Thanks, Foxe. I'm still reading this thread. In fact, I'm saving lots of the info to give to our ship's head cook next time he starts complaining about his budget. Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 That could backfire badly, you'll be on a diet of burgoo and soggy peas before you can say "malnutrition"! Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Wow - I really miss these great discussions!! Been slackin' on 'fluff' sites of late, discussin' a certain wiggly-hipped movie pirate and his dashing, albeit bizarre, alter ego. But lately I've been in the mood again for more serious discussion... I've really enjoyed all the input here. Looks like oatmeal, peas, salted meat, and cheese were the staples on most ships - navy, pirate and otherwise... I'd like to add a few observations, however - some based on 'reports', and some based on speculation. First - the speculation. I would think that the supplies aboard a pirate ship were far more diversified than those on a naval vessel. NOT more abundant, mind you...just more diversified, based on location. For instance, pirates along the Barbary Coast probably had a far different diet than those in the Caribbean. It would be interesting to see if we could dig up any information on Mediterranean pirates. Did they (like the Spanish) eat more rice and chick pea (garbanzo) and tahini based meals instead of peas and oatmeal - or more mutton and lamb or goat, perhaps? PURE speculation - but it would be interesting to know how much the cultures along the Mediterranean (Greek, Mid-Eastern, North Aftican) influenced their rations. In the Caribbean, however - we have another factor. A lot of small, isolated islands scattered about. I would assume - again, pure speculation - that pirates took advantage of whatever they could scavenge from such islands - fruits such as papaya and bananas and coconuts (not sure of the nature of these things - what is native and what was introduced from other locales). Also yams, plantain, and akee, and certainly fish and turtles, and whatever they could take from ships AND communities they plundered/pillaged. Pirates took part in a lot of inland raids...and I'm sure the first few days back at sea were spent finishing off the perishable delicacies they had brought aboard. ALL speculation, but speculation based on normal human behavior. There are two types of food - the rations that had to be meted out carefully, and the 'bonuses' that were probably eaten soon after they were acquired. In other words - if you want to know what pirates ate - you almost have to think like a pirate, and not like a textbook. If YOU were at sea eating hard, moldy cheese for two months, and dropped anchor off a little island to find fresh water - wouldn't you glean everything possible from that island? Without victuallers bringing in fresh supplies like in the navy, a pirate ship had be resourceful. So - think like a pirate, and think what was available at that time amongst those islands frequented by pirates. Let's look at the Caymans, for example. A pirate haven, and a region rich in turtles. Surely, turtle meat was a staple for many pirates in the region. (BTW - I've never had sea turtle, but snapper *think clean thoughts* soup is delicious!! ) Someone mentioned salmagundi. A little tidbit I found in one book says, "The name is thought ot be a corruption of medieval French salemine, meaning salted or highly seasoned....A cook might include as the basis of his salmagundi any or all of the following: Turtle meat, fish, pork, chicken. corned beef, ham, duck, and pigeon. The meats would be roasted, chopped into chunks and marinated in a spiced wine, then combined with cabbage, anchovies, pickled herring, mangoes, hard-boiled eggs, palm hearts, onions, olives, grapes and any other pickled vegetables that were available. the whole would then be highly seasoned with garlic, salt, pepper, and mustard seed and doused with oil and vinegar - and served with drafts of beer and rum." Okay - THAT would make me puke... A small store of creature comforts would sometimes be kept - things like bacon, dried tongue, marmalade, nuts, and currants. In A Sea Grammar by Captain John Smith, he wrote, "For when a man is ill, or at the point of death, I would know whether a dish of buttered rice, with a little Cynamon, Ginger and Sugar be not better than Salt Fish or Salt Beef." In 1691 an anonymous English pirate captain off of Calicut, India. tried to come to a gentlemanly agreement with the local East India Co. agent, writing for, 'wood and water, as well as provisions for refreshing the men...as well as for one hundred weight of limes." Later he demanded, "a hogshead of rum and sugar equivalent for punch..." Another reference is to the 1719 attack on the English slave ship, Bird Galley. It states, "Shortly afterward the pirate commander, Captain Thomas Cocklyn...came aboard. He issued an order for all the live fowl on the Bird Galley - geese, turkeys, chickens and ducks - to be killed and cooked, and they were put into an immense cauldron with no more preparation than drawing the guts and singeing the feathers; along with the fowl went some Westphalian hams and a pregnant sow, which the pirate cook simply disemboweled and threw into the brew with the bristles still on." Also, "Snelgrave (of the Bird Galley) stood helplessly by and watched as Cocklyn's and Davis' men 'hoisted upon Deck a great many half hogsheads of Claret and French Brandy; knock'd their Heads out, and dipp'd Canns and Bowls into them to drink out of: And in their Wantonness threw full Buckets upon one another. And in the evening washed the Decks with what remained in the Casks. As to bottled Liquor, they would not give themselves the trouble of drawing the Cork out, but nick'd the Bottles, as they called it, that is, struck their necks off with a Cutlace; by which means one in three was generally broke. As to Eatables, such as Cheese, Butter, Sugar, and many other things, they were as soon gone.'" Basically what I'm saying is that their diets were probably very diversified, based on what was available at the time. Unlike the navy which had a more 'regimented' diet, pirates were scavengers, and they probably took whatever they could get their paws on, whenever possible. Sure, they probably had common 'stables' aboard, but certainly they took goods from ships and ports they raided, and from the islands where they sought refuge. Again - a lot of speculation here, but speculation based on common sense. das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Welcome back Das! The Navy's diet was only regimented in as far as providing basic minimums, so that if tere were no other food to be had the sailors were guaranteed a basic diet. I am, at the moment, trawling through the diary of Henry Teonge, ship's chaplain in the 1670 who made three voyages to the Mediterranean station collating mentions of all the different foodstuffs they bought locally. Big task though... When the Viner Frigott docked in Alexandria to load cargo fresh supplies were bought on a weekly basis, mostly beef, rice, beans, fresh bread, and some luxuries including blackberries, cream, pigeon, and sherbert. Before they left Alexandria they laid in some more sea-store which included "macaroon" (probably macaroni, which was described at least as early as 1596 as "a certain victual in the form of hollow pipes... called by the name of macaroni among the Italians") On turtles, in Josselyn's second voyage (I think), he makes reference to hunting turtles, even describing the method, (the bit directly under the shell is aparently he nicest part). Can anyone remember which of the buccaneers it was who thought that flamingo tongues were so delightful? One other interesting point is that we tend to think of the standard ships' fare as pretty horrible - and certainly there are complaints about it - but complaints tended to be about quantity rather than quality, and we do have records of people positively enjoying some of it! The Swiss traveller Cesar de Saussure sailed on board an English warship in the 1720s: Each sailor eats one pound of boiled salt beef three days in the week for dinner, together with a pudding made of flour and suet. On two other days he eats boiled salted pork with a pudding of dried peas, and on the remaining two days pea soup and salt fish or bargow, which is a nasty mixture of gruel as thick as mortar... [the ship's bisuits are] as large as a plate, white, and so hard that those sailors who have no teeth, or bad ones, must crush them or soften them with water. I found them, however, very much to my taste, and they reminded me of nuts. Thanks very much for posting those Snelgrave quotations, very interesting. I think the short answer to the question originally asked is: At sea for any length of time standard fare was salt meat, hard biscuit, oat-meal, dried peas, horrid cheese, fresh fish, and beer (or spirits). This was basically common across merchant ships, Naval ships, and privateers, so pending spedific evidence about ships' stores laid in by pirates it's reasonable to infer that they ate the same. When near land then that diet could be, and usually was, supplemented with whatever fresh provisions the locality had to offer. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Welcome back Das! Why, thankee, mate! *curtsies* I found this regarding the 17th cent. Dutch Navy (the following are excerpts translated from the original Dutch by Willem Rabbelier and Cor Snabel of the Netherlands.): The food on board of a Dutch ship in the 17th century was strictly regulated according to official rules, so there was not a big difference in the food supply on merchant ships, whalers, VOC or WIC ships. In 1636 the Admiraliteit van Amsterdam (Amsterdam Admiralty) ordered that everyone on board was entitled to half a pound of cheese, half a pound of butter and bread to the weight of five pounds a week with double this amount for the officers. In order to feed one hundred men, the ship had to carry for each month at sea; 450 pounds of cheese, five tons (cubic measure) of meat, four tons of herring, one and a quarter ton of butter, five and a half tons of dried peas, two and a half tons of dried beans, half a ton of salt, 35 barrels of beer in winter (42 barrels in summer) and French and Spanish wine for the officers.A very important part of the food supply was the hardtack or ships biscuit, made of wheat or a mixture of wheat and rye. It was manufactured in bakeries north of Amsterdam in Zaandam and the Wormer, where you can still find to this day large factories which produce biscuits and gingerbread. Perishable food had to be smoked, dried or salted. Fish, apples and prunes had to be dried, vegetables, meat and fish were salted, even live stock as chicken, pigs and sheep were on board. Groats, beans and peas often replaced vegetables and fruit. The day began with bread and porridge (made of groats), lunch had less starch. On Sunday there was half a pound of ham or a pound lamb's meat or salted meat with beans. On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday fish with peas or beans were on the menu. On Thursday it was a pound of beef or three ounces of pork and on Friday and Saturday it was fish again. At the beginning of the journey the beer was drunk first, because it was perishable (no preservatives in those days) and by the time these barrels were empty, the crew had to drink water. http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/mm_10.shtmlIt seems that on Dutch ships of all sorts, fish was a staple in their diet, so it could be assumed then that Dutch corsairs also fed their crews with fish, both fresh and salted. I find this interesting because I've read of some 'superstitions' where sailors avoided eating fish - their 'brethern of the sea', as it were. NOW I question those 'superstitions' as fictional inventions... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I used to do a fair amount of hopping around the Caribbean, as it was my region as an agent. I got to eat a fair amount of local food, as opposed to the stuff you get in the resorts. I'm now hooked on a number of things. Jamaican curried goat is top of my list, followed closely by jerk chicken. I think the question comes up how much of these spices were available in period, or what were the equivalents. Certainly there are references to spicy food being popular, as is the case in most hot climates. Saltfish and ackee was another dish I learned to like, but not at the resorts. The local diners served a much better version, probably because it was not fancied up or Americanised for the tourists. Turtle. Now there's a real yuck fest. Greasy, tough, stringy, and tasting like overripe fish. I tried it in Cayman and never wish to do so again. I think the only thing I've ever had worse was beaver tail stew. You'd have to be really desperate, or the ship's stores absolutely crawling with vermin for turtle meat to be an improvement. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Das, I've heard the same about seamen being too superstitious to eat fish. Clearly the evidence shows that to be a lot of twaddle. The specific superstition I'd heard was that it was stealing from Neptune, but in an overwhelmingly Christian society such pagan sentiments are a little far fetched. There are so many nautical "traditions" that have absolutely no basis in tradition. Another one that's popped into my research several times recently is accounts of seamen swimming, both out of necessity and for leisure, but apparently we "know" seamen didn't swim because it was tempting fate to know how. Personally, I don't have much time for "traditions" these days, too few of them really are traditional. I suspect the reason for so much fish was eaten by the Dutch in the early seventeenth century was because the Dutch fishing industry was one of the largest in the world at that time, and it was one of the principal industries of Holland. John Keymer, writing in about 1620 reckoned that 20,000 ships and vessels were involved in the fishing industry around the British coasts, of which The Hollanders... have about 3000 ships to fish with all and 50,000 people are employed yearly by them... These 3000 fishing ships and vessels of the Hollanders doth employ near 9000 other ships and vessels and 150,000 persons more by sea and land to make provision to dress and transport the fish... Thus, of 20,000 vessels employed by British, Dutch, French and Scandinavian fishing industries about 12,000 (60%) were Dutch. Hawkyns, I don't know that I'd even try Beaver Tail stew to find out how awful it was. You're a brave man (or a foolhardy one). Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasNdanger Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Saltfish and ackee was another dish I learned to like, but not at the resorts. The local diners served a much better version, probably because it was not fancied up or Americanised for the tourists. Hawkyns, when I was a wee lass of 13, I stayed in Jamaica for two weeks, at a resort unlike any other around...had quite the experience there. It no longer exists, unfortunately, but at least I had a chance to experience Jamaican food at its finest! Our cook was an elderly Jamaican woman with a heart of gold - and she made ackee and cod (as she called it) several times. My palate wasn't as mature as it is now, and I didn't much care for it...but that's probably because I really don't like fish all that much. One of the workers at the resort took us for a walk and showed us ackee growing on a tree, and explained that it can't be eaten until it bursts open, releasing harmful gases inside. Outside our huts grew bananas and papayas, which we just picked and ate at will - it was just like paradise...except for the spiders.... Other things that we ate were pumpkin soup, plantain, yams (giant, ugly yellow Jamaican yams, not to be mistaken for those tasty ones eaten around the holidays), heavy bread, dasheen (taro root), and fresh sugar cane. It was quite an experience, and I lost a LOT of weight!! LOL! On an aside - one of the Jamaicans working at our resort took us to his home in Cockpit Country - a haven for runaway slaves and pirates alike. THERE we had Guinness...not sure if THAT was part of ship's rations back in the day, but it sure was a Cockpit staple in 1975! Oh, great...just gave away my age.... das http://www.ajmeerwald.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastie04 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Here's a thought. Maybe fishermen were encouraged by these 'superstitions' not to eat the fresh fish as they came aboard in order to be more profitable. As for the swiming, I think that most seamen didn't bother to learn how, as if the ship sank or they went overboard, it was unlikely they'd live anyway, and swiming would just prolong the inevitable and drag out the torture of death. I think lots of traditions varied based upon the job and the area they sailed, and were born out of some sort of purpose, for example whistling being bad luck and supposedly conjuring up foul winds when more likely it just might cause confusion with a boatswain's pipe giving orders. So I think discounting a tradition as complete hogwash might be going a bit far, as it may have been a tradition for a certain group of sailors, either based upon geographical location, culture, or mission. Also, wasn't beaver tail supposed to be a delicasy with the mountain men? Coastie She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Das, I've heard the same about seamen being too superstitious to eat fish. Clearly the evidence shows that to be a lot of twaddle. The specific superstition I'd heard was that it was stealing from Neptune, but in an overwhelmingly Christian society such pagan sentiments are a little far fetched. There are so many nautical "traditions" that have absolutely no basis in tradition. have much time for "traditions" these days, too few of them really are traditional. Foxe bear in mind when a seaman crosses the equator for the first time he has to pay homage to King Neptune ( and do something embarassing ) There's a whole book on the subject here at the Library titled Crossing the line : tales of the ceremony during four centuries by Harry Mileer Lyndenberg. Pagan superstitions die hard. They may get changed around a bitas in the crossing ceremony but old Neptune still rears his head now and then. As to seaman not eating ish, as I said in an earlier post the Royal Navy issued fishing equipment so that the men could fish when it was appropiate. In all the books I have read on the subject no seaman turned down fresh fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Yar, but paying homage to Neptune when crossing the equator (got any GAoP era evidence of that btw?) is esentially a bit of fun - high spirits and the like. Denying yourself a valuable source of food is a lot more serious. Academic anyway since we've basically seen that seamen ate fish. Perhaps I should have been a little more lucid about traditions. Some "traditions" may have a basis in actual tradition, others, as you say, may come from a specific tradition relevant to a particular time or place, but a great many are hogwash undoubtedly, or have only been "tradition" for a short time (such as the great earring "tradition" for example). Dammit, read something else of interest about food this afternoon, damned if I can rememebr what or where though! Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 paying homage to Neptune when crossing the equator (got any GAoP era evidence of that btw?) I could be wrong Foxe, but didn't Woodes Rogers mention that in his texts? I'm pretty sure Silas Told did also...I'll double check later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Yar, but paying homage to Neptune when crossing the equator (got any GAoP era evidence of that btw?) The book I mentioned does have chapters on the 17th - 18th c. Unfortunately that part of the Library is off limits as it is being rewired (It's been 3 weeeks already). My supervisor got kicked out of her office trying to retrieve something! As soon as I can get down there I'll get the book and check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I recall various contemporary accounts of crossing the equator ceremonies (Rogers, Teonge, Barlow etc), but I don't remember them involving Neptune. However, I could be completely mistaken (it has been known ). May I suggest that any evidence goes into a new thread to avoid getting too OT. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Ok, I got a question, its not period, but in Master and Commander, the movie, what was the one dish called and what was it.? He said it was his favorite. It sounded like "Souced Hogs Face"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Ok, I got a question, its not period, but in Master and Commander, the movie, what was the one dish called and what was it.? He said it was his favorite. It sounded like "Souced Hogs Face"? Bump, someones got to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Think it maybe Labscouce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Think it maybe Labscouce. Whats that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Maria Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 A Stew. Look here: http://www.scouser.com/recipe/index.html Also a minor misspelling it should be lobscouce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Petee Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Ok, I got a question, its not period, but in Master and Commander, the movie, what was the one dish called and what was it.? He said it was his favorite. It sounded like "Souced Hogs Face"? Bump, someones got to know? Found It, never mind. I was close. Thanks for the help Red Maria Soused Hog's Face 1 pig's head, about 10lbs, cleaned, but not skinned 2 lbs (6 cups) white cornmeal 3 cups white wine 3 cups white vinegar 1 cup water 2 bay leaves 1 tablespoon salt 12 peppercorns 1 knob fresh ginger, about an inch long, sliced 1 nutmeg, cut in half Place the head in a large bucket with half the cornmeal and cold water to cover. Soak 2 hours or longer. Remove the head from the water, rinse well, and place in a large pot with the remaining cornmeal and water to cover. Bring to a boil, coverered, and simmer 3 hours. Remove from the pot. When it is just cool enough to handle, pick all meat from the bones. Reserve the tongue and ears. Wring out a cloth in warm water. Put all the meat into the cloth and tie up as tightly as possible. Chill until firm. Combine the wine, vinegar, 1 cup water, and the spices. Untie the cloth and pack the meat into a crock. Add the tongue and ears. Pour the wine mixture over the meat. Weight the meat to keep it submerged ( a plastic bag partly filled with water works nicely). Seal the crock and store in a cool dark place for up to two weeks before serving. Serves 6 (from Lobsouce and Spotted Dog: a gastronomic companion to the Aubrey/Maturin novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolie Rouge Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 [paying homage to Neptune when crossing the equator (got any GAoP era evidence of that btw?)] It's pretty much an immortal ritual. It's still performed today, and not as a quaint revival either. It's always been done, and always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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